16 replies to this topic

[Yoda27]

Scenario: I was in the Trial Stalker last night in River City Dark map playing my 5th (total) game of Mechwarrior Online. I've done some reading on the forums, watched some videos, talked to my friend who got me to play, so I thought I should at least not embarass myself. However the very first thing my team did was split up. It is my understanding that one of the cardinal rules of Mechwarrior is to stick together?

I was the only missile mech so I stayed back by our base (at the bottom left of the screen) and turrets, but kinda split the difference and tried to provide missile support to both mini- groups, launching at anything in range. Eventually, I ran out of missiles and the remaining members of my team fell back (I believe there were 4 of us and 7 of them). The rest of my team got drawn north out of the turrets but I stayed near the turrets and used my med lasers to shoot at the backs of the enemys while they engaged our remaining forces. A turret killed one I was concentrating on and my team mates took down 3 more leaving me vs 3.

Then my team mates started berating me for not "getting into the fight" and started giving me grief. I lured one damaged mech (I had removed all it's back armor) behind me and a turret killed it, then I killed the other 2 and we won the match. Granted I was the sole survivor, but we did win.

Questions:

* Was this a bad/inappropriate strategy?

* What should I have done differently?

* Should I have taken command and tried to rally everyone sooner? (being new I was afraid to do this)

Any advice appreciated.

Yoda27

[Mott]

I think you knew before posting that you did not err. You used solid tactics and got the win, deservedly.

Folks tend to get upset when Assaults hang in the backfield - I've dished a little of such rage before - but you pretty much have to give lone Stalker pilots a pass because a) they can't keep up and they are typically missile support - what else should they do?

Last night i was in a match where all 5 of our assaults hung back to pretend to be missile support... each of them had just one LRM launcher *face palm*... while the rest of us mediums and lights had our butts handed to us.

THOSE are the hangers-back that deserve berating.

Edit Add:

Grabbing command and issuing orders in a PUG will not work, don't even worry about it. But if you do... how is anyone supposed to know if you're a noob or a 20,000 drop vet?

Edited by Mott, 05 March 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

So long as you stayed close enough to hit them with the LRM you were flinging (1000m max range), it sounds like you did rather well.

That mech dies rather easy - so you want to stay behind the others - but hopefully close enough that you do not get cut off by fast lights (which on that map is less of an issue - esp with the turrets there to cover you)

There are a lot of people out there who will blame anyone but themselves for their loss - if it helps there is a general rule "First to complain - worst on team"
(keeping in mind there are exceptions to every rule....including the rule about exceptions)

[Garegaupa]

Yoda27, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

However the very first thing my team did was split up. It is my understanding that one of the cardinal rules of Mechwarrior is to stick together?

You're right. Unfortunately, this is what often happens. People go where they please, spread out too thin, and get shredded by a more organized enemy.

Yoda27, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Then my team mates started berating me for not "getting into the fight" and started giving me grief. I lured one damaged mech (I had removed all it's back armor) behind me and a turret killed it, then I killed the other 2 and we won the match. Granted I was the sole survivor, but we did win.

Not bad at all!

Yoda27, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Questions:

* Was this a bad/inappropriate strategy?

* What should I have done differently?

Depends on how you look at it. Many people expect assault 'Mechs, with their heavy armor and weapons, to lead the attack. However, the trial Stalker you mentioned was (unfortunately?) set up more for ranged support than close combat. Still, you could probably have moved up with one group, supporting the other with missiles as needed. But, hindsight is 20-20, and you saved the day in the end, that's what counts! Sounds like a really exciting game!

Yoda27, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

* Should I have taken command and tried to rally everyone sooner? (being new I was afraid to do this)

You could have tried, of course, but it's not easy to get everyone to listen, so it might not have helped.

All in all, I'd say you did well - you won the game in the end!

Edited by Garegaupa, 05 March 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Modo44]

Sounds like you did quite well. Even a veteran would be proud of that result. Unfortunately, when you drop solo, you meet many people for whom rushing forward without regard for positioning or strategy is pretty much all they ever do. Your win speaks for itself. Yes, talking in team chat and giving orders can help, but it can also be ignored, unless you are in a group. While the game is very much team based, only 12-man drops are truly organized in that regard.

There are situations where you need to push -- even in a distinctly second line mech -- but this was not it. You recognized the situation, and proceeded correctly. The introduction of turrets and their impact on Assault matches has not dawned on some folks yet. Instead of finding high ground, staying near the base is possibly the optimal strategy now.

Edited by Modo44, 05 March 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

If you unloaded all your missiles at effective range (and not into the side of buildings) you did your job. Killing people with your back up lasers means you did someone else's job too.

[PieRat]

I think I know the answer to this, but will ask anyway... Were you in a PUG (pick up group) solo? If so do not really sweat it. Forrest Kerensky always said "mechwarrior pug matches are like a box of chocolates...You never know what you are going to get."

Unless there was one pilot giving commands and EVERYONE on the team was following them except you then let their rants in the chat roll off like water on a ducks back. While they were off doing their thing in that match they had no idea that...

#1 you are a new player...(well the trial stalker if that was what you were running might tip them a little bit)...

#2 that they split leaving you with "WTF???? who do I go with?" questions, and that...

#3 you were actually in the fight trying to give support to both split groups.

It is funny to think of their reactions when you won the game though. Trust me I am a lot of times one of if not the last person in a lot of matches, and I pretty much 99% of the time only run my lights. I can be last in a match with 4 of the enemy team left, and they are screaming....both teams in chat to just "show myself!...Fight like a man with honor!!!, etc..." I say Whatever!!! In those games that I actually end up taking out the last 4 of the enemy by using light mech tactics instead of pretending I am running an OMG AWESOME SAUCE Atlas with sharks with laser beams coming out of my chest....the chat usually goes quiet...

If they are soooo much in a hurry to get back in their mech for the next game then they need to learn not to die so fast...

I am not talking about the shutdowners and others who will avoid fights to save their precious "KDR". I do not play like that, but I do play like I know I am not invicible against 4 remaining mechs of varying weights and loadouts... Anyway back on my point. Do not sweat it. You are new and tried your best. Lack of an intergrated VOIP in this game only compounds the issues. Look up the public teamspeak servers on the forums here and join in with other players. You will have a better experience, and know better what you should or should not do instead of them leaving you to guess.

Just my 2 C-Bills.

Edited by PieRat, 05 March 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Phobic Wraith]

That sounds like a fantastic game! aside from teammates attempting to salvage their ego by making you feel bad for doing well, I'd say it must have been a good experience.

as in all things practice makes perfect and I can promise you'll get better with time. On the bright side if you consistently have good games like that you'll elo out of that bracket and won't have to deal with those specific haters anymore.

Anyway, welcome to the game, any 'mechs caught your eye as potential candidates for ownership?

[CSHubert]

No you didnt do anything wrong. You did what was appropriate for you in the given situation. End of line. No matter what, we all do our best to make it happen, but sometimes it is not enough for the dead. So they rant... I got my share of abuse but then again Im a noob.

Luckily this is MWO not WoT... People here are in general very nice

[AlmightyAeng]

Three things. First, good job on the win! Good, solid tactics.

Second, there's nothing wrong with hanging back in a missile 'mech...if you're in front you're gonna be fodder. Keep in mind, however, that your MAXIMUM effective range is 1000...your minimum is 180. If you hang 350m behind the 'front' then your enemy has less of a chance to dodge your fire, and you can dish out more pain.

Third, whenever someone give you grief it is fully appropriate to hit 'Tab,' double check their name and see if responding "Says the dead guy" is valid. Or you can just ignore them.

[jper4]

Ghost Badger, on 05 March 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Three things. First, good job on the win! Good, solid tactics.

Second, there's nothing wrong with hanging back in a missile 'mech...if you're in front you're gonna be fodder. Keep in mind, however, that your MAXIMUM effective range is 1000...your minimum is 180. If you hang 350m behind the 'front' then your enemy has less of a chance to dodge your fire, and you can dish out more pain.

Third, whenever someone give you grief it is fully appropriate to hit 'Tab,' double check their name and see if responding "Says the dead guy" is valid. Or you can just ignore them.

on the other hand i've found the second you start typing something in chat is the moment the other team decides they are finally going to push your position...

on topic to OP- you did fine LRM mechs should be hanging back some from the main fight and sticking near the turrets meant you had someone (ok so it was Corporal Zapper with the AI of doom hiding in his bunker while one of the privates is creaming "close the blast doors we're gonna die!" but still) watching your back at all times so the lights couldn;t make their traditional death swarm of slow missile boats. and you won the match, probably had most kills on your team too.

now just think what you'll be able to do once you get more experience with the game!

as your namesake might say "Wise in the ways of the turrets this one is."

Edited by Tanar, 05 March 2014 - 12:06 PM.

[PieRat]

Ghost Badger, on 05 March 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Third, whenever someone give you grief it is fully appropriate to hit 'Tab,' double check their name and see if responding "Says the dead guy" is valid. Or you can just ignore them.

+1 big time to that!!!

Just to add it reminds me of a game a few nights ago we had an AFKer on our team. Not a disconnect, but someone who was powered down and AFK. I was taken out pretty early but I remember we were getting rolled bad, and there were like 3 mechs left on our team, 1 being the AFKer... All of a sudden blue team chat exploded... They were bashing this AFKer so bad, and using very very colorful descriptions and adjectives, etc.... To only have that player about a minute later power up and jump into the fray. He tried his best in the fight, but the match was lost by then... He then very politely typed in something to the affect of... "I am so sorry guys. My toddler is sick and I had an emergency....again sooo sorry."

I hope some of the team felt sorry for the way they reacted to his AFK. I admit I was thinking he was a KDR AFKer, but again without a VOIP in the game (pugwise) you never know what could be happening with a player, whether they are new, have an emergency, etc... So it is good to think before you type in this game. I know I have been guilty of it myself at points. But that game I mentioned that happened the other night makes ya think...you know.?

[CSHubert]

Yoda27, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

... A turret killed one I was concentrating on and my team mates took down 3 more leaving me vs 3.

...I lured one damaged mech (I had removed all it's back armor) behind me and a turret killed it, then I killed the other 2 and we won the match. Granted I was the sole survivor, but we did win.

You, sir, can drop with me any day !

[Barkem Squirrel]

As someone that runs LRM boats, I might have followed one of the groups, but only in a medium that can get me out of there if things go bad and normally do.


[color=#959595]* Was this a bad/inappropriate strategy?[/color]
Your option was follow one, stay in place, or move to where you can support both.
You made a good choice, but remember, sometimes pull up the map to see where you are shooting. it helps to know the maps better, but you will get that experience.

[color=#959595]* What should I have done differently? [/color]
It does not sound like much, you won. Some other items, range, and target location. Did you have targets loose lock after you fired? Wait, which side of the map was you cap point? More of this is good to look at LRM rules or even roles in MWO. Yes, I can go on and on.

[color=#959595]* Should I have taken command and tried to rally everyone sooner? (being new I was afraid to do this)[/color]
This is a scary item to talk about. Right off the bat maybe, but once engaged sometimes it works. One item most people forget is the LRM mech is in the back finding targets seeing them move and assessing if firing at 900 m will I loose lock before they can hit. You have more tactical awareness than the atlas that is fighting three mechs at once. Another is who else knew you only had five games under your belt. I have thousands and sometimes I take command in PUGs and people actually listen. Shocking is it not. I have even set them up in weird locations and they listened.

Some players are mad that they died and see you still have a lot of armor. Yes they get mad, but you are not a brawler.

You won, fended off a large assault after the rest of the team used subpar tactics and used the terrain and turrets to your advantage.

I'd Drop with you.

[no one]

Yoda27, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

To err, human is. To error therefore, grammatically incorrect must be.

Edited by no one, 05 March 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[Garegaupa]

CSHubert, on 05 March 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Luckily this is MWO not WoT... People here are in general very nice

Right on the money! I've played WoT for quite a while now, and the MWO community is friendlier by an order of magnitude! In MWO it seems (to me, at least) that loudmouths, whiners and armchair generals are the exception rather than the rule - at least in the games I've played up to now!

[Koniving]

Yoda27, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Questions:

1) Was this a bad/inappropriate strategy?

2) What should I have done differently?

3) Should I have taken command and tried to rally everyone sooner? (being new I was afraid to do this)

Any advice appreciated.

Yoda27

1) No. You did well. You may or may not have been able to optimize this with good placement on the map.
2) You could have communicated to your teammates that they could have retreated to the turrets with you. Then the turrets could better support them. Though they should know this already. You could also have gone for legs when possible. Hitting them on the tops of their thighs would really slow them down and make them easier to kill.
3) No on the command and I'll tell you why. You are very unlikely to be listened to in a trial mech unless your name is well known. Even if it were and you're in a non-trial mech (akin to myself), I still only occasionally get cooperation with the command role. And damn does the game love giving it to me.

But if you ever do decide to try and take command, this video is a kind of indirect tutorial on the Battlegrid (press B to pull it up). The first match is running through the info. The second match is putting it to use.

Edited by Koniving, 05 March 2014 - 12:29 PM.