73 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 March 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

Locusts can be so much better if PGI don't adhere so strictly to the CBT mech construction rules. Why does every mech need at least 10 heat sinks? Why does the Locust need more internal strength and max armor in its head than in any of its arms, legs, or side torsos?

Want the locust to be useful?
Make Machine Guns do the same damage as an AC2, because that is what they were supposed to do with the BT weapon stats.. and a huge number of mechs are based on having MG's as functional primary weapons for point blank combat.

The fact that MG's aren't functional as primary weapons cripples a ton of mechs designed around them.

[FupDup]

Roland, on 06 March 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Want the locust to be useful?
Make Machine Guns do the same damage as an AC2, because that is what they were supposed to do with the BT weapon stats.. and a huge number of mechs are based on having MG's as functional primary weapons for point blank combat.

The fact that MG's aren't functional as primary weapons cripples a ton of mechs designed around them.

With that suggestion, the 6MG Spider really WOULD have a devastating effect on the back of an Atlas!

Edited by FupDup, 06 March 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 06 March 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

With that suggestion, the 6MG Spider really WOULD have a devastating effect on the back of an Atlas!

Well, don't hold your breath, but Russ is claiming many more hero mechs in the pipeline for those chassis that haven't gotten them...

Edit:
This thread for your imagination -
http://mwomercs.com/...-older-chassis/

Edited by Deathlike, 06 March 2014 - 08:47 PM.

[ShinVector]

Roland, on 06 March 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Want the locust to be useful?
Make Machine Guns do the same damage as an AC2, because that is what they were supposed to do with the BT weapon stats.. and a huge number of mechs are based on having MG's as functional primary weapons for point blank combat.

The fact that MG's aren't functional as primary weapons cripples a ton of mechs designed around them.

Do you have any idea how assault pilot QQ this would generate... ?

[Trauglodyte]

There doesn't need to be an incentive to play lighter mechs. There needs to be an incentive to play mechs that don't have JJs and weigh less than 65 tons? How many people do you see driving:

Locusts
Mandos
Raven 2X/4X
Cicadas
Hunchies
Cents
Trebs
Dragons
Quickdraws (has JJs but is freaking massive in size)

The only reason that the Kintaro gets any play is because of the stupidity that is the Streak Missile. While I appreciate PGI's attempt at nerfing JJs, they've still done nothing to help those that need the help the most. Terrain physics still continue to hose land locked mechs and JJ mechs all have equal agility and accel/decel as the land locked mechs and carry the same number of weapons. That isn't balance.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 07 March 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Hunchies

Only "JHunch" (Jman5)

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Cents

I'm still trying to decide whether to sell this so I can do something more useful for this slot.

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Quickdraws (has JJs but is freaking massive in size)

Only the skilled can master it!

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 07 March 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

Only "JHunch" (Jman5)

He is the heart and soul of the Hunchy community. Have to give a guy credit that literally ONLY drives that chassis.

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I'm still trying to decide whether to sell this so I can do something more useful for this slot.

I tossed my freebie Cent a day or two after I got it. I stripped the Md Lasers and the engine and then scrapped the rest. It is sad that it is worth more in a few parts than it is on the battlefield. Though, I also run an upgraded stock Cent-AL. I made the necessary adjustments of added DHSs and Endo along with a 275XL. Ditched the Small Laser for TAG and added another LRM10 launcher. It is an ugly clunker and I don't mcuh like cruising around in it but I'll pull it out when, and only when, my crew needs some LRM support from the Medium class. Sadly, with the release of the Griffin, I wonder what the overall point of the Centurion is even if you're running it as intended. Slower, wider, and land locked. Oof!

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Only the skilled can master it!

I bow to the superiority of the Quickdraw/Trebuchet master Teach me, sensei!

[Mazzyplz]

more incentive? even now that we have teams of 12 lights dropping consumables on their slow enemy to roflstomp?

yeah.. right!

[Almond Brown]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 06 March 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Double the size of every map. Make spawn points and cap points random within "you're" quarter of the map.

Could be doable with map selection as an Option. Otherwise, hope to hell you don't get put on a 2X Alpine in your "Brawler Atlas". It would quickly become "DC - CYA suckers!" game mode". LOL!

P.S. Or increase Match time 3 fold so said Atlases can at least get to what is left of the Battle...

[stjobe]

ShinVector, on 06 March 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

Do you have any idea how [much] assault pilot QQ this would generate... ?

You say this like it's a bad thing?!?

Seriously though, Roland is right.

[Trauglodyte]

Roland, on 06 March 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Want the locust to be useful?
Make Machine Guns do the same damage as an AC2, because that is what they were supposed to do with the BT weapon stats.. and a huge number of mechs are based on having MG's as functional primary weapons for point blank combat.

The fact that MG's aren't functional as primary weapons cripples a ton of mechs designed around them.

stjobe, on 07 March 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Seriously though, Roland is right.

He is right. The only problem, though, is how do you prevent the MG from causing other issues if it did actually do the damage of AC2s like in TT? On most mechs, it isn't really a problem. But, there are a few where you could really abuse them. Plus, that doesn't even go so far as upping the damage/dps to match current AC2s. Can you imagine a Spider running around with 4 MGs and each doing 4 DPS? The Locust would still get one shot or two shot via legs right into the dirt. But, the Spider would be an uber machine the likes nobody has ever seen. What about the Ember?

[Mazzyplz]

Roland, on 06 March 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

The fact that MG's aren't functional as primary weapons cripples a ton of mechs designed around them.

you mean - according to sarna: "The Locust was built exclusively for reconnaissance."

now you want it to go toe to toe with assault mechs??

i have to facedesk.
besides machineguns are plenty powerful when aimed at mechs' backsides. because people put only usually 20 or so armor back there.

what you want is machinegun to do massive dmg to the front side of an atlas.

[stjobe]

Mazzyplz, on 07 March 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

you mean - according to sarna: "The Locust was built exclusively for reconnaissance."

Lucky then that recon is such an essential and rewarding part of MWO.

Mazzyplz, on 07 March 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

now you want it to go toe to toe with assault mechs??

i have to facedesk.
besides machineguns are plenty powerful when aimed at mechs' backsides. because people put only usually 20 or so armor back there.

what you want is machinegun to do massive dmg to the front side of an atlas.

Either the AC/2 is massively overpowered or the MG is massively underpowered; take your pick. They should both do the same damage, only one did it at extremely long range and the other at extremely short range.

[Roland]

Mazzyplz, on 07 March 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

you mean - according to sarna: "The Locust was built exclusively for reconnaissance."

now you want it to go toe to toe with assault mechs??

Dude, having MG's not be useless trash wouldn't make the locust "go toe to toe with assault mechs".
Unless you are absolutely terrible at piloting assault mechs.

Do you know how many shots it takes for most mechs to leg a locust?
ONE.
Seriously, one alpha strike from most mechs, including mediums, will leg a locust.. I've done it tons of times.

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besides machineguns are plenty powerful when aimed at mechs' backsides.

No, they aren't.'
Garbage damage is garbage damage, no matter where it hits. Hitting the back doesn't make that damage number somehow go up.

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what you want is machinegun to do massive dmg to the front side of an atlas.

We're not talking about "massive damage" here.. It's damage that would be spread all over the place... And it's damage which has a range of NINETY METERS.

This is the thing which people seem to be totally unable to grasp, despite it being such an obvious point. MG's range is basically touching the target. That makes it incredibly situational. It's the shortest ranged weapon in the entire game.

That's why it's able to do the same damage as the AC2, but weigh so much less.



Additionally, note that light mechs aren't the only mechs that carry machine guns... TONS of mechs pack machine guns for use at point blank range. That's what's SUPPOSED to be in the K2, for instance... You simply never see it in game, because the MG's are useless, so they're generally always replaced with "real guns".

If you really want to leave MG's in their useless joke state, then stop making mechs which have them as a primary weapon system.

[Mazzyplz]

ac2 does pretty acceptable damage to armor so yeah, basically massive dmg (although not from the locust, the machinegun jager will be able to WRECK any mech so think about what you're saying)

also, the machinegun does bad dmg to armor but good dmg (BEST DMG IN GAME) to internal components. which are easier to peel through to on mech's backsides, which light mechs are the best at getting to

-and lets not even talk about the upcoming omnimechs that will probably be able to use 8 machineguns if they pod swap thing is similar to other MW titles



just buff the locust legs, give it the hit detection issues the spider has, which spider doesn't need due to JJ and ecm.
make it good at reconnaisance which is what the mech was built for in the lore. tagging away

Edited by Mazzyplz, 07 March 2014 - 01:27 PM.

[Roland]

Mazzyplz, on 07 March 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

the machinegun jager will be able to WRECK any mech THAT IS WITHIN 90 METERS FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME

Fixed that for you, including the critically important information which you seem to continually forget about.

[Trauglodyte]

One thing that could help the Locust, Spider, Raven (is it the 2 or 4, I can't remember?), and the Cicada would be to add the Mech Mortar to the game. It is basically the Autocannon version of the LRM only it isn't affected by AMS. The coding is already in the game. You simply take an LRM, fire it off as one shot, and have it land like artillery shells. IF you did that, the Locust 1V could then run a max engine, the Mech Mortar 1 w/ 2 tons of ammo, and either 2 MGs and a Small Laser or 1 MG/1AMS and a Md Laser/TAG. It still isn't a beast but it would provide the Locust with something to fill the ballistic slots to provide damage output while keeping it as a recon mech. Not perfect but it is a start. And, it goes to keeping the Locust away from where it is most vulnerable.

[Mazzyplz]

Roland, on 07 March 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

Fixed that for you, including the critically important information which you seem to continually forget about.

like it's so hard to facehump slow mechs, easy in a jager, EASIER in a light mech

[stjobe]

The MG is currently at 1 DPS, the AC/2 at 3.85 DPS.
The MG does 0.1 damage every 0.1 seconds, AC/2 does 2 damage every 0.52 seconds.
The MG has a range of 120/240m, the AC/2 720/2,160(!).
The MG takes 1 ballistic slot, the AC/2 takes 1 ballistic slot.
The MG weighs 0.5 tons, the AC/2 weighs 6 tons.
The MG gets 2,000 rounds per ton of ammo (200 damage), the AC/2 gets 75 (150 damage).
The MG generates 0 heat, the AC/2 generates 1 heat per shot.
The MG has a (rather large) cone of fire, the AC/2 is pin-point accurate.

In my personal opinion, MGs could do with a bit of a buff, and the AC/2 could do with a rather large nerf. It does roughly the same DPS as all the other ACs (and MORE than the AC/5!), which in and of itself is wrong. It's supposed to be ten times weaker than the AC/20, five times weaker than the AC/10, and 2/5ths as strong as an AC/5.

In fact, it's supposed to be a very long range MG, just as Roland says. And the MG is supposed to be a very short range AC/2.

Edited by stjobe, 07 March 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

stjobe, on 07 March 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

The MG is currently at 1 DPS, the AC/2 at 3.85 DPS.
The MG does 0.1 damage every 0.1 seconds, AC/2 does 2 damage every 0.52 seconds.
The MG has a range of 120/240m, the AC/2 720/2,160(!).
The MG takes 1 ballistic slot, the AC/2 takes 1 ballistic slot.
The MG weighs 0.5 tons, the AC/2 weighs 6 tons.
The MG gets 2,000 rounds per ton of ammo (200 damage), the AC/2 gets 75 (150 damage).
The MG generates 0 heat, the AC/2 generates 1 heat per shot.
The MG has a (rather large) cone of fire, the AC/2 is pin-point accurate.

In my personal opinion, MGs could do with a bit of a buff, and the AC/2 could do with a rather large nerf. It does roughly the same DPS as all the other ACs (and MORE than the AC/5!), which in and of itself is wrong. It's supposed to be ten times weaker than the AC/20, five times weaker than the AC/10, and 2/5ths as strong as an AC/5.

In fact, it's supposed to be a very long range MG, just as Roland says. And the MG is supposed to be a very short range AC/2.

so the spider and blackjack can put out the same dmg despite the massive tonnage/speed/size difference? no thankyou.
hardpass.