108 replies to this topic

[IronChance]

I posted this in another thread about turrets but I'll repost it here, because this thread is even more appropriate:

I don't play Assault mode anymore since the only smart way to play it is to just sit on your base surrounded by your turrets. The team that tries to actually assault gets creamed. Turrets should not be used in a game mode with symmetrical sides and objectives. Every Assault match is a 10 minute wait until one side gets bored or frustrated and marches to their deaths.

And I can't bring myself to cajole other people on my team into standing on base for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's just not fun, even if it is the smart thing to do. Alternatively, I can't bring myself to intentionally play stupid by marching off a fortified base. So, Assault matches are off the table for me right now.

[Deathlike]

The only time I saw "CapWarrior" working was on Crimson Strait. Everyone had decided to go through the "saddle" and cap the enemy base while murdering turrets in their path. It was beautiful.

Too bad that was a rare moment, since capping genuinely does little to sway the battle... if anything, turrets buys a significant amount of time to finish your "Skirmish" and then RTB. That's what ends up happening. Seems a lot more lopsided in for doing more Skirmish really.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 March 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[OznerpaG]

it would likely be more reasonable if the turrets stayed in sleep mode until someone tries to cap, then wake up. the turrets are supposed to be defending the base, not helping your team in the battle

[Kjudoon]

I have seen only 2 successful caps and that is because the last survivor went and hid while 8-12 mechs went off to cap because they wanted the XP and to not bother looking. That lone survivor could not return the cap even as a show of defiance. We're back to making Assault a twitch munchkin's paradise.

What amazes me even more is how many... "experienced competative pilots" (their claims not mine) see base defense with the obvious superior tactic as a 'stoopid/gay/explitive' tactic. I'm just astounded at why these "competent" (their belief, not mine) pilots would throw away the equivalence of a 2 medium mech advantage (LRM15/3ML). I mean... REALLY?

[Quaamik]

IMHO - Fewer turrets, far fewer (or none) LRMs on turrets on small maps, less turret zone of fire overlap and weaker turrets would solve a lot.

As for turret armor value, a turret should not take as much damage as a light mech (that's standing still) to kill. When closed, sure they could be real hard to kill. But when open? 30 - 40 points of damage should kill one.

Turrets should be positioned so that while several (or all) can cover the base, most should be virtually on their own (unsupported) against an attack against the turret itself. They should also be placed, and the zone that triggers "wakeup" tailored, so that they have a very limited ability to engage away from the base. The "wake up" zone could even be tailored to lessen the impact of the LRMs, if the zone was considerably less than 1000 m AND the turret went back to sleep after wakeup once no enemy was within the wake up" zone (or maybe a little outside it).

This is supposed to be a player v PLAYER game, not a player v TURRET game. Turrets should slow capping, not discourage it and definitely not completely prevent it.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

A 40 hp turret would be killed in under a second by a my 4 PPC stalker... They would also only take less than 2 alphas from a 6 ML Jenner/FS. They should try them at 100 hp and/or remove a couple before doing anything too drastic. Maybe cut their damage or aim a bit, as they are meant to delay capping, not kill people.

[Jman5]

The turrets need to have their targeting priorities adjusted because they beat up too much on the little guys in the group. I'll be in a group of 5 or 6 mechs and every time I poke my head out the turrets re-target and focus fire me. It's frustrating.

IMO, turrets need to be dumbed down and just target whoever.

[fandre]

IMO the turrets are to strong. Scince patch I have tried some assault matches. In every single match the opposing team tried a cap rush and failed badly. My team was not staying in the base and returned from halfway to their base.

Edited by fandre, 09 March 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[nephilimUK]

well 5 of us went disco hunting for the last enemy at the base, 2 survived........ridiculous. turrets OP for sure but discos in a game where you cant reconnect but you still have to kill to end it is ********

[Quaamik]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 09 March 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

A 40 hp turret would be killed in under a second by a my 4 PPC stalker... They would also only take less than 2 alphas from a 6 ML Jenner/FS. They should try them at 100 hp and/or remove a couple before doing anything too drastic. Maybe cut their damage or aim a bit, as they are meant to delay capping, not kill people.

So maybe 40 hp would be too low, but 150 like now is way too high. Personally, I think that any assault and most heavies should be able to single alpha kill a turret. As tactics go, if you have let heavies through to approach your base you should be thankful for the warning that a turret gives, not expect it to hold the base for you.

As for a light being able to kill one with 2 or three alphas, that still works. It slows them down (as they can't just run right to base) and gives the team notice its happening. Especially since the light would be within range and taking damage from the turret while it did it.

[Odins Fist]

One thing about assault, I never understood how some little guy in a mech standing in a square box was going to stop me from crushing it's face because it was standing in that square, and capped my base.

Fine you just captured my base, my Mech didn't explode or stop working, so how the "F" is capping supposed to stop 4 mechs from killing the last enemy mech on the map.?? Oh boy, he stood in a square an accomplished.. Nothing.??

What was the point in the first place, to see who could avoid combat the most..?? GTFO
I like the turrets, I think they are really SWELL..!!!!!!

Do you know how you actually capture a base or any kind of territory..??
You defeat your enemy in that area, you either force a surrender, or you destroy it's armed forces, that's how you capture something.
If I could stand in a square and claim Victory I would be standing in Red Square right now claiming Victory, and giving that POS Vlad Putin the finger. ROFLMAO, but that isn't how it works.

At least we don't have to deal with some kind of capture the flag game mode.

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 March 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[B1zmark]

Turrets have effectively killed Assault.

Heavy teams already dominate the meta, and lights don't have the firepower to win a brawl: So why the hell are they being punished for trying to fulfil their role of capturing and defending objectives?

More than that, this has killed medium mechs even worse. Mediums are the ultimate mid-ground of "best at nothing", but they have the ability to do everything to a lesser degree. Choosing fights carefully, using speed to out-maneuver heavy mechs and tactically choosing to cap bases was what made them dynamic and unique. Now they get stuck in the mire of area denial that turrets provide, forced to either fight with heavy mechs or sit around doing nothing.

Pathetic implementation.

I was unlucky enough to buy more MC before reading the patch notes - I'm now instating a full embargo on my micro transactions until turrets are removed. Before i was just waiting until lobbies - now they have to actively UN-BREAK ASSAULT MODE.

I hear World of Tanks has community warfare... think I'll check that out.

Edited by B1zmark, 09 March 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

A 40 hp turret would be killed in under a second by a my 4 PPC stalker...

40hp is too low. i personally think 90-100hp would be about right.

[C E Dwyer]

turrets have no place on small maps should have been obvious to everyone from the start.

The big maps they work fine but small you can hardly move off your bases in river city and forest without bringing down a turret lrm storm they simple have to go

[Dawnstealer]

The laser turrets aren't so bad, but...

Okay, Battlemechs are supposed to be lords of the battlefield, right? Turrets should be annoying, but not deadly.

The ML turrets should have one ML instead of four. The LRM turrets...these things are ridiculous: sure, they're just LRM5s, but they are like the worst Catapult LRM-spammer of all time. They don't lose lock, they fire at a real high rate, they don't run out of ammo, they have a high enough number of hitpoints to make them hard to even get near for the average Light (who typically lack longer range weaponry).

I like the ideas of the turrets. But now no one in their right minds goes for a cap unless it's a 11-2 stomp and the last guy's hiding. Maybe that was the point?

Edited by Dawnstealer, 09 March 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

All they need to do is lower the turrets armor by a lot. I think they have 150pts right now. They need to have about 40pts then go up tell we find the sweet spot.

[C E Dwyer]

Odins Fist, on 09 March 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

One thing about assault, I never understood how some little guy in a mech standing in a square box was going to stop me from crushing it's face because it was standing in that square, and capped my base.

Fine you just captured my base, my Mech didn't explode or stop working, so how the "F" is capping supposed to stop 4 mechs from killing the last enemy mech on the map.?? Oh boy, he stood in a square an accomplished.. Nothing.??

What was the point in the first place, to see who could avoid combat the most..?? GTFO
I like the turrets, I think they are really SWELL..!!!!!!

Do you know how you actually capture a base or any kind of territory..??
You defeat your enemy in that area, you either force a surrender, or you destroy it's armed forces, that's how you capture something.
If I could stand in a square and claim Victory I would be standing in Red Square right now claiming Victory, and giving that POS Vlad Putin the finger. ROFLMAO, but that isn't how it works.

At least we don't have to deal with some kind of capture the flag game mode.

You take away a person ability to fight, quickly forgotten in this game is the fictional situation we're fighting in, where spre parts are not allways available and a mech makes you one of the elite, and a house losing a regiment of mechs is a total disaster, and facing down an enemy in combat is a last resort, because your plans failed, in mech warrior universe taking territory and resources without out heavy casualties is the norm.

This is what base cap is supposed to represent, very badly, and turrets have now reduced the abstract of what the mw universe is about, and not the lame fight to the last man of skirmish.

In the fictional wars mercenary units have broken contract rather than risk even 10% casualties.

I won't bother to make a reply of your putin coments

[C E Dwyer]

IronChance, on 08 March 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

I posted this in another thread about turrets but I'll repost it here, because this thread is even more appropriate:

I don't play Assault mode anymore since the only smart way to play it is to just sit on your base surrounded by your turrets. The team that tries to actually assault gets creamed. Turrets should not be used in a game mode with symmetrical sides and objectives. Every Assault match is a 10 minute wait until one side gets bored or frustrated and marches to their deaths.

And I can't bring myself to cajole other people on my team into standing on base for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's just not fun, even if it is the smart thing to do. Alternatively, I can't bring myself to intentionally play stupid by marching off a fortified base. So, Assault matches are off the table for me right now.

lol your right the only real mode worth playing now is conquest, skirmish has sucked hard from day one, and only tollerated playing it because I like conquest and liked assault, but now assaults not worth playing on small maps because of the turrets

[Khobai]

Maps like river city would probably be fine if the LRM turrets were removed. LRM turrets on small maps just control too much area. I think if they just had the laser turrets it would be okay.

But also turret hp needs to be lowered to at least 100hp.

[Kjudoon]

Meh... In the end, I have a love/hate with the turrets.

I'd say we need to walk this back in very deliberate stages to where the balance returns. Each step might just be enough and others would then not be needed.

First, decrease the HP by about 25% on the turrets to about 100-120hp.
Second, give them a bigger miss percentage. Right now they're aimbots... in spirit and actuality.
Third, decrease their numbers, one at a time, starting on small maps first, but have at least 3 on every map per base.

You do this one at a time, see if it does the trick at each step. If no, do a little bit on the next one. If a bi-weekly tuning is done based on statistics, till where we start seeing the ability to base cap again for SINGLE healthy mechs or multiple damaged mechs and where the turrets are not getting 1-3 kills per game as I have been seeing lately, then I think we've achieved a good balance. A DT kill should not be happening every game, and currently that's what I'm seeing.