105 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

True, i very much enjoy the Savage Wolf as well, though it is much later in the timeline (Dark Ages)

[KuroNyra]

What about the Mad Dog/Vulture? (second favorite mech right after the Timber Wolf).

[CyclonerM]

KuroNyra, on 18 March 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

What about the Mad Dog/Vulture? (second favorite mech right after the Timber Wolf).

Mad Dog in a nutshell:

-It is not a fire support 'Mech: it has only 2 tons of LRM ammo.
-Its LRMs are softeners until it gets to brawling range.
-Yes it has low armor but those pulse lasers are not to be underesterimated. And what about CLRM20 = SSRM 20?
-It looks very cool. My second favourite Clan 'Mech too.
-I would love it in MWO.
-More firepower and faster than the heavier and similar Catapult, but no JJs..

Edited by CyclonerM, 18 March 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[Craig Steele]

CyclonerM, on 18 March 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

Mad Dog in a nutshell:

-It is not a fire support 'Mech: it has only 2 tons of LRM ammo.
-Its LRMs are softeners until it gets to brawling range.
-Yes it has low armor but those pulse lasers are not to be underesterimated. And what about CLRM20 = SSRM 20?
-It looks very cool. My second favourite Clan 'Mech too.
-I would love it in MWO.
-More firepower and faster than the heavier and similar Catapult, but no JJs..

Ummm, Firesupport is normally dictated by weapon loadouts, not ammo?

Maddog has long range weapons in most Load outs (primary you have shown, there is a dual Gauss one too) and hence would fall into the fire support clasification. It does not carry armour sufficient for sustained brawling which would count againt it falling into a close range fighter.

Archers and Catapults both carry only one ton of ammo per launcher and they are certainly fire support mechs. As do Dervishes and Whitworths and Trebuchets.

Indeed, I cannot think of a fire support mech off the top of my head that carries more than one ton of ammo per launcher until techs ramp up and and space is created in buld's, but the fire support classification has been around long before tech's were ramped up.

[CyclonerM]

Craig Steele, on 18 March 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

Ummm, Firesupport is normally dictated by weapon loadouts, not ammo?

Maddog has long range weapons in most Load outs (primary you have shown, there is a dual Gauss one too) and hence would fall into the fire support clasification. It does not carry armour sufficient for sustained brawling which would count againt it falling into a close range fighter.

Archers and Catapults both carry only one ton of ammo per launcher and they are certainly fire support mechs. As do Dervishes and Whitworths and Trebuchets.

Indeed, I cannot think of a fire support mech off the top of my head that carries more than one ton of ammo per launcher until techs ramp up and and space is created in buld's, but the fire support classification has been around long before tech's were ramped up.

True, but "fire support" may not be a very common role in Clan warfare.

And by the way, yes the Catapult carries only a ton of ammo.. And it is its worst disadvantage! A support 'Mech should be able not only to give fire support, but to sustain a long fight. How good is a Long Tom if you only have, say, 5 or 6 rounds? I hardly see Mad Dogs picking an opponent and firing missiles on it during a Clan battle (following Zellbrigen), so you could say its low ammo does not matter really much.

In MWO, however, Zellbrigen battles will be the exception (private matches), not the rule (pug drops, no honor vs Spheroids) so it would be at disadvantage, especially compared to customized Catapults like mine (5 tons of ammo IIRC).

[990Dreams]

It is on par with assault class units. Two well piloted Mad Cats could take on four Atlases I'd say.

Of course, I've never tried a Mad Cat vs Atlas on a multiplayer MechWarrior. But I bet it'd do well.

[Pariah Devalis]

DavidHurricane, on 19 March 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

It is on par with assault class units. Two well piloted Mad Cats could take on four Atlases I'd say.

Of course, I've never tried a Mad Cat vs Atlas on a multiplayer MechWarrior. But I bet it'd do well.

To be fair, a well piloted Cataphract can take down two Atlas fairly easily, too. It all comes down to circumstance.

[Fyrwulf]

DavidHurricane, on 19 March 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Of course, I've never tried a Mad Cat vs Atlas on a multiplayer MechWarrior. But I bet it'd do well.

One was possible in MW4, if you were smart. And that was with clan weapons not nerfed. Two at once was basically impossible and two in a match was very hard unless you were very good and the two Atlas pilots were very dumb.

EDIT: There were far more dangerous mechs in MW4 than the Atlas. At range the Black Knight, Templar, and Nova Cat were monsters. Close in you were dead if you got caught with your pants down by a Fafnir.

Edited by Fyrwulf, 19 March 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[KuroNyra]

DavidHurricane, on 19 March 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

It is on par with assault class units. Two well piloted Mad Cats could take on four Atlases I'd say.

Of course, I've never tried a Mad Cat vs Atlas on a multiplayer MechWarrior. But I bet it'd do well.

Well, on Living Legend, the MadCat is more expensive than the Atlas, and a well played MadCat can take out EVERYBODY.

Destroyed 3 Daishi and 2 Atlas with a MadCat G once.
But you have to get the ground advantage.
You simply can't rush with it if you want to survive.

[990Dreams]

Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) advantages:

• Light weight for it's armament capabilities.
  
• Large HP capabilities.
  
• Fast.
  
• Semi-well armored.
  
• JJ capable (alt. configuration S)

Disadvantages:

• Doesn't have as much armor as an Atlas (makes up in speed)
  
• Maybe add another 5 tons to the chassis for more ammunition or heatsinks?

The Timber Wolf is an all around assault, support, and quite possibly scouting unit (recon in force ). That, and it was like the Atom Bomb. The IS had never seen anything like it. And suddenly you have swarms and swarms of them mauling your troops (assisted by other Mechs but still). Why are pilots scared of it? Simple. The Timber Wolf is the Mech that can maul over anything in a 1-to-1 fight (so long as the pilot doesn't act like an idiot). It is an all around death machine, to put it simply.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 20 March 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[Craig Steele]

DavidHurricane, on 20 March 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) advantages:

• Light weight for it's armament capabilities.
  
• Large HP capabilities.
  
• Fast.
  
• Semi-well armored.
  
• JJ capable (alt. configuration S)

Disadvantages:

• Doesn't have as much armor as an Atlas (makes up in speed)
  
• Maybe add another 5 tons to the chassis for more ammunition or heatsinks?

The Timber Wolf is an all around assault, support, and quite possibly scouting unit (recon in force ). That, and it was like the Atom Bomb. The IS had never seen anything like it. And suddenly you have swarms and swarms of them mauling your troops (assisted by other Mechs but still). Why are pilots scared of it? Simple. The Timber Wolf is the Mech that can maul over anything in a 1-to-1 fight (so long as the pilot doesn't act like an idiot). It is an all around death machine, to put it simply.

you just described every omni mech?

[KuroNyra]

Craig Steele, on 20 March 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

you just described every omni mech?

Put a StormCrow against a Daishi.





Other question, this time between the Mad Dog and the Timber Wolf. I've heard that these mechs shared same component.
Both of them had for exemple the same leg's. True?

[Mynder]

I've always preferred the Adder, and Warhawk, myself. Then again, they had big bore ppcs and this nifty thing called targeting computer.

They made big, smoking holes.

Edited by Mynder, 21 March 2014 - 03:31 AM.

[SnagaDance]

Davoke, on 14 March 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

It's a walking side torso hitbox with barely any ammo, a horrible heat-to-heatsink ratio, and a stupidly sized cockpit; piloted by cloned space fascists who are always yelling and using lame rushing tactics. To be honest I hate it(now everyone will be gunning for me in MW:O <.< ), because there's other Clan Mechs that get the job done better, because a Thor has enough ammo to fight, and CAN ACTUALLY SINK ALL ITS HEAT

The Summoner has enough ammo to fight? Hardly!

The Prime variant carries 2 tons for the Lrm15 true but it's LB10x only has 1 ton (which in TT means you can't switch between solid and cluster shot), meaning that in 10 shots you've got a 10 ton paperweight. How often do you take out a mech with a single ERPPC and a supplemental Lrm15 together with a 10-shot LB10x into battle and do well?

The A variant suffers from the same problem. Nice Gauss rifle but only 1 ton of ammo. Luckily the SRM6 (which is supposed to exploit the breaches made by the Gauss gets 2 tons? Sp you've got the above story but now with a Large Pulse and a SRM-6

The B variant is the only one I'd call properly cared for in terms of ammo. It's Lrm20's got 2 tons each, and the 2 SRM-4's get 1 ton each. And then there's a Narc. Unfortunately it has absolutely zero back-up weapons once the ammo runs out.

The C variant is the Prime and A story all over again but now starring an Ultra AC/20 (so even though it has 2 tons you can compare it to a regular AC/20 with just a single ton of ammo), a Streak SRM6 with 2 tons of ammo and an ERLL plus ERSL.

The D variant is a solid energy weapons platform.

In Zellbriggen enforced encounters the Summoner should be able to take out one similar opponent, but it will struggle taking out 2 due to ammo concerns. With no Zellbriggen and a prolongued engagement I see every design except the D being dead in the water.

Also, it's nice being Heat Neutral but really, if your going below Heat Neutral so fast because of ammo shortages is it still a good thing? And how many Heat Neutral mechs do you play in MWO? Being able to ride the heat curve in order to do more damage at the right moment has always been important, both in TT and MWO.

Finally, the lore states it's a good meter taller than most other mechs. If PGI follows this (why do certain Medium mech designs spring to mind?) you've got a mech with a huge profile but not enough armour.

I really like the look of the Summoner but I do not see it being really great in MWO and in TT I really only rated the D a threat, as an upgunned Grasshopper if you will.

[CyclonerM]

It is taller then the others, sure, but so is the Shadow Hawk, and it turned to be a good medium

I agree the ammo load is not suited for a long engagement.. But you can always remove a ton of LRM ammo and put one of LBX-10..

[SnagaDance]

So then you gimp your other ammo dependant weapon (thankfully the weapon itself has less tonnage so you 'waste' less).

I think the Summoner really suffers for not having Endo.

[CyclonerM]

SnagaDance, on 21 March 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

So then you gimp your other ammo dependant weapon (thankfully the weapon itself has less tonnage so you 'waste' less).

I think the Summoner really suffers for not having Endo.

I know, but it sounded to me that you thought the missile weapons could have got less ammo in favor of ballistic weapons..

I still would love to see if it is really going to be a good brawler: on paper, a fast and very mobile heavy (with possibly an UAC/20! ) could!

[Luxifer]

KuroNyra, on 08 March 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Hello guy's. I've always been curious about one thing.

Why is the Timber Wolf/MadCat so well know and so feared?

Sounds like "Why Sasha Grey is so hot?"

[KuroNyra]

Luxifer, on 21 March 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Sounds like "Why Sasha Grey is so hot?"

Ho shut up!

Basicly: Why this mech look's so freaking good? :3

[CyclonerM]

Luxifer, on 21 March 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Sounds like "Why Sasha Grey is so hot?"

KuroNyra, on 21 March 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Basicly: Why this mech look's so freaking good? :3

Because it is a Timberwolf. There is nothing else i could say. What else could i say?

Mh.. The parts are armonically proportioned .. It has a fearsome look... The bird-like legs give it a little weird walk but also the impression of being agile.. The blocky weapon pods suggest a simple, essential, military might. The machine guns on its torso are a good touch of militaristic look..The cockpit viewport itself looks cool for some reason. Its missile launchers look fearsome too...

Well, because it is a Timberwolf. It looks like a true, fearsome war machine. Most Clan 'Mechs look this way. What BattleMechs should be IMHO. More than giant iron knights, they should be definitely war machine. Humanoid, but still war machines. The Timber Wolf is one of the most perfect blend of alien, humanoid and war machine. I want to shake hands to whoever first got the idea for the concept art.

Edited by CyclonerM, 21 March 2014 - 09:54 AM.