97 replies to this topic

[Charons Little Helper]

Every so often - people claim that brawling is dead. And the meta builds are all long-range based.

If you want to see brawling - just play conquest.

When people deathball in assault/conquest - long range is king. In a 12v12 scenario - the 1st person to stick their head up gets hit by 12 people.

In conquest - the cap points force mechs to split up to come degree. In a 4v4 scenario or less - brawling is quite effective. If you're pretty quick - you close to brawling range from 2-4 mechs long-range firepower.

Long-range firepower is still effective - but it doesn't totally outshine brawling.

So - as more objective-based scenarios get in the game - brawling will inherently get better.

I don't know about everyone else - but I can only hope for those scenarios to come. Until then - I'll be playing conquest 95% of the time.

[Asmudius Heng]

Conquest is a good mode as it promotes movement, it FORCES it and forces fighting on objectives.

However, the weapons of brawling are still quite terrible and people brawl with a limited subset of them - or brawl quite well with mid/long range weapons.

I do agree though that if you want more infighting fun conquest does deliver more than other modes

[Kaeb Odellas]

The problem with Conquest is that deathballing is still pretty much the best tactic for most maps. Sure, you'll start off losing on points, but you more than make up for it if your deathball runs into one of their capping elements and crushes it. Killing the enemy is still the most important objective in the game. Dead mechs can't cap points, after all.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I enjoy conquest and can see the logic of OPs commentary but has been noted it does not change the truth of the matter (in my opinion admittedly) that long range weapons tend to work just fine in brawls right now. My ERLL or PPC + UAC builds dont suffer at all in the face of a ML+SRM6 or AC40 (etc. etc.) opponent atm.

[Varent]

Brawling got a major boost with the latest changes. That game mode has been better for games in general in my opinion. (gasp objectives OMAGERD!). However if you spread out too much, yes, the death balls are gonna getcha. SRM need hit detection fix for brawling to come fully around though. Also it depends on the map. Alpine is still sniper heaven. #DenseCityMapPlease

[Monkey Lover]

Last game for me,
lrm damage running to the wall,
Ran around the side found a lone catapult
two ac20 hits,
firebrand dead in 3 seconds.
catapult is hurt im sure he didn't last very much longer.

Im happy you're doing better at brawling. My brawls last few seconds if I win the next one I die because im red core haha

Weapons have way to much power in this game.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 08 March 2014 - 11:38 PM.

[Varent]

im sorry your having bad experiences. Im having very very good ones. Id love to party with you some time, evaluate builds and play styles and see if there is anything that can be done to improve your overall gaming experience. Good luck out there.

[Monkey Lover]

I feel I do just fine I kill people just as fast as they kill me haha. Thank you for the offer. We're still talking fast. Few games ago ilya 2xppc 3xac. Two alpha to a kto it was dead. I felt sorry for that guy he was only able to fire once.

Only real brawling I get is with lights. Light battles are fun if you keep the streaks out of it

Edited by Monkey Lover, 09 March 2014 - 12:00 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Conquest is easily the best game mode, always has been and always will be. You are correct that smaller battles happen all over the map concerning the control points. I will always favor Conquest though since I am a BF tryhard through and through. It would be nice if it was faster to cap though because even with like 4 mechs on it can take a little to long.

People who claim tactics in Skirmish and now Skirmish 2.0 AKA Assault with turrets are kidding themselves. Split your force and once the enemy death ball figures it out they steam roll one side and its all over.

Since hitreg issues are pretty much the same for all weapons the only drawback for brawling weps is getting into range.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 12 March 2014 - 01:49 PM.

[YueFei]

Kaeb Odellas, on 08 March 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

The problem with Conquest is that deathballing is still pretty much the best tactic for most maps. Sure, you'll start off losing on points, but you more than make up for it if your deathball runs into one of their capping elements and crushes it. Killing the enemy is still the most important objective in the game. Dead mechs can't cap points, after all.

Good (maybe excellent) scouting and use of speed and artillery and air strikes to cover retreats can counter a deathball in Conquest on some of the larger maps. Well, except they frakked up the cap points on Alpine...

For example, on Tourmaline, if you see 12 mechs stomping to theta you just avoid it and camp the other points. Then if all 12 enemies stomp towards kappa, the lance you sent to kappa retreats and you cap theta. Etc. Requires good scouting to keep tabs on the enemy and get info to your team early enough to be able to retreat before they get overrun.

[Charons Little Helper]

Kaeb Odellas, on 08 March 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

The problem with Conquest is that deathballing is still pretty much the best tactic for most maps. Sure, you'll start off losing on points, but you more than make up for it if your deathball runs into one of their capping elements and crushes it. Killing the enemy is still the most important objective in the game. Dead mechs can't cap points, after all.

I've gotta disagree. The death-balls simply never catch me.

I suppose that I should have been more exact when I said 'If you're pretty quick'. Brawling is still pretty weak for assaults - they're too slow. (except maybe max engine Victor)

The faster speed lets you both close the distance - and evade deathballs.

My slowest pure brawler is 86kph. (and even that has a couple of regular large lasers)

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 09 March 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[VagGR]

while i see the OPs point the ugly truth is that most cq games end up deathball fight first cap after...which basicaly is what we have all this time. tdm with a base and tdm with five bases..then they gave us pure tdm and nothing changed.

now turrets seem to have altered assault a bit and i find myself enjoying it more. cq has a lot of potential as a game mode but the current implementation is poor. first of all this isnt battlefield you dont have vehicles and respwans on captured point. having five cap points spread at the edges of the map is just stupid unless there are 24 lights running around.

reduce the cap points to three. place them in such a way that fighting over them takes about 60% of the map and leave the rest especially in large maps for flanking. take for example alpine peaks. at first the points were at the far edges of the map, endless walking if you wanted to play the objective. then they moved them in the center of them, huge map never mind just walk towards the center..

we dont need five cap points, keep three and make it even more interesting give them certain attributes. for example keep the current resource gathering mechanic, make theta, the middle one, give 1.5x more resources. turn kappa into some kind of radar station and make it giving you seismic readings 200m around each point you own. make eps a mobile hq and make it activating sl/mg turrets on the points you own. things like that will give the cap points strategic value, they will be worth fighting for and cq will be a deeper game mode not just mindless shooting..

if they take some time to rethink cq it can be a great game mode

[Noesis]

Mech Sniper Online still in effect, "for now".

WIP, I hope.

[Corvus Antaka]

Once when capping conquest bases rapdily this was true.

Now, outside tourmaline conquest is just a deathball with a few more objectives. your still best off to 12 man blob it and after killing everything grab all the bases since caps are so slow to flip, and the time it costs to flip them costs too muc time out of battle on all but a select few maps.

PGI has pushed the entire game towards the 12 man blob of death. it's almost impossible these days to get a couple smaller scale lance vs battles happening. They completely cratered to the assault whinos that flipped when lights capped their base, but never defended or had any strategy beyond "rush and blob"

Smart conquest design would be fast base flips so players spend time fighting over bases, not 2 minutes standing on them to cap them removed from the battle. Having conquest points stream in faster woudl force teams to cover multiple objectives at once.

Having default lance objectives would help pugs & groups alike have orders and cover objectives.
I really hope PGI is taking a hard look at game design, because the tension & intensity of matches, the various fun & intense things that used to happen in matches are getting rarer and rarer, and the entire game is devolving into a turtle and 12 man blob snipe fest that has no objective beyond blow everyone up.

It seems the whining of the crowd that hated getting capped but never defended their base has won, and really at this point every game mode is practically skirmish with a minor flavour variation.

I personally find myself less and less entertained by recent changes. Match quality continues to drop - and that is despite the fact that we have a lot more & better pilots out there than ever before.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 09 March 2014 - 04:59 AM.

[Charons Little Helper]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 09 March 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Smart conquest design would be fast base flips so players spend time fighting over bases, not 2 minutes standing on them to cap them removed from the battle. Having conquest points stream in faster woudl force teams to cover multiple objectives at once.

When capping was fast - people didn't cover objectives. People just capped & ran off.

Now - when you see a point start to cap - if you're in the general area you can make it there before they finish capping - then fight over the point.

[Jman5]

My biggest problem with Conquest is how utterly reliant you are on your teammates not screwing you over. If I could get my teams to play their role and objectives for the game mode it would be one thing. But often they just want to fight and it ends with 1 light hiding in a corner with just enough cap points to pull a win.

Small premades of lights can really make that game mode difficult if they are diligent about capping.

I don't have a solution, nor am I saying it's unfair. I just find it frustrating so I tend to prefer Assault and Skirmish.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Jman5, on 09 March 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

My biggest problem with Conquest is how utterly reliant you are on your teammates not screwing you over. If I could get my teams to play their role and objectives for the game mode it would be one thing. But often they just want to fight and it ends with 1 light hiding in a corner with just enough cap points to pull a win.

Small premades of lights can really make that game mode difficult if they are diligent about capping.

I don't have a solution, nor am I saying it's unfair. I just find it frustrating so I tend to prefer Assault and Skirmish.

Honestly though, with the way the game is...I'd rather have 11 guys alive, CRUSHED the opponent...and lose to a shut down Locust earning points.

Why?

Winning doesn't mean anything.

Much more visceral fun to crush the opponent.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Charons Little Helper, on 08 March 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Every so often - people claim that brawling is dead. And the meta builds are all long-range based.

If you want to see brawling - just play conquest.

When people deathball in assault/conquest - long range is king. In a 12v12 scenario - the 1st person to stick their head up gets hit by 12 people.

In conquest - the cap points force mechs to split up to come degree. In a 4v4 scenario or less - brawling is quite effective. If you're pretty quick - you close to brawling range from 2-4 mechs long-range firepower.

Long-range firepower is still effective - but it doesn't totally outshine brawling.

So - as more objective-based scenarios get in the game - brawling will inherently get better.

I don't know about everyone else - but I can only hope for those scenarios to come. Until then - I'll be playing conquest 95% of the time.

Yep you are exactly right. I used to NEVER play conquest till I had a few decent games in it...find 3 or 4 mechs to run with, have a powerful config that can quickly incap whatever you shoot at and go nuts. In those fights you arent fighting the entire team like you might wind up doing in assault or Skirmish, Its limited firefights with 2 or 3 other mechs...if you are good at rolling your damage, or are in a good high dpm mech that can rip up an opponent quickly and dominate that local engagement, Conquest is AWESOME for brawling...poptarts arent the end all, be all unless they are massed and coordinated in that game mode...a Pug poptart is usuually a dead poptart because is is a lot more likely to not have a lot of backup.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 09 March 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Honestly though, with the way the game is...I'd rather have 11 guys alive, CRUSHED the opponent...and lose to a shut down Locust earning points.

Why?

Winning doesn't mean anything.

Much more visceral fun to crush the opponent.

So much this....

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 09 March 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Bagheera]

GRiPSViGiL, on 09 March 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

Conquest is easily the best game mode, always has been and always will be.

This.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Bagheera, on 09 March 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

This.

Hello there slightly-more-evil twin!