38 replies to this topic

[xXBagheeraXx]

Is there anyplace that tells what the basic setup of the clan mechs in the package are going to be? My only information is what I can see on Sarna...and if they go with the current clan mech rules I will probably only get the Dire wolf....and even then possibly not even that mech...My point is...

You cant change the minimum number of heatsinks, internals, engines etc....

The Masakari comes with 20 doubles according to Sarna....That is WAYY TOO FREAKING MANY FOR ME. I like ballistics with moderate to light supporting energy weapons...the way the game is currently, energy heavy mechs...just...SUCK....I wont need 20 doubles for a pair of uac10's and whatever else i cram on that badboy, so thats about 10 or so tons of doubles (more depending on whatever comes with the engine) I dont need....it also doesnt come with endo steel internals (again, according to Sarna) Which is also a huge turn off for me for assault class mechs...with few exceptions, most all my mechs use endo steel, with the only exceptions being a few of my stalkers that are absolutely crammed with doubles and wouldnt benefit spacewise due to the amount of weapons those mechs carry.

It also comes with a fairly massive (for me at least) XL 340...I generally dont mind if my big gun assaults are a bit sluggish...I dont like being out in front, and If I'm having to run for my life, im probably screwed anyway, I prefer firepower or sinks over speed (probably why im just now getting the hang of victors) when im in assaults. Thats a bit too beefy of an engine for me, but i cant change it, if indeed that is going to be default engine/sink setup on this mech. Has FF armor...i do not use FF armor except on light mechs...not really a huge bonus for me...

Also according to Sarna The Dire wolf has a nice xl 300 stock...a good engine for me, and an acceptable 54 kph, also right up my alley for big gun mechs, but no endo, so You really cant cram build this thing. I also didnt see anything about minimum heatsinks....you can see how many holes that leaves into what you can actually slap on this badboy.

So where is some info on the basics of the configs on these puppies? Not much point on tossing money into something I got no info on, and ive gotten burned by enough hero mechs I didnt like. I'm sure im not the only one thinking this.

[SirLANsalot]

on the main clan page (to buy) just hover over each mech (not the package) to see the Prime version setup at least. No idea what the Alt A and Alt B's are going to have, PGI style.

[xXBagheeraXx]

SirLANsalot, on 08 March 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

on the main clan page (to buy) just hover over each mech (not the package) to see the Prime version setup at least. No idea what the Alt A and Alt B's are going to have, PGI style.

Oh man...those are pretty dang bad....Madcats engine is wayyyyyyyyyyyy bigger than anything I'd ever dream of using in a mech of that weight..no endo.....

No endo in the nova....22 fixed heatsinks in the direwolf prime that I really wouldnt want in something I planned on making ballsitic heavy....

Also lists the hardpoints as if they are fixed...I thought the hard points were determined by the omnipods? They would really have to budge at least on the engine sizes, and weather or not you could mount endo and ff before I would even dream of buying anything on that package...

[CheeseThief]

For a nice tool for looking up the battlemech builds is the Solaris Skunk Werks program. It's a CBT mech contruction program that you can download record sheets for, it has most of the older mech designs with references to the books they came out of.

As for mech information;

The Direwolf has 15 fixed DHS, 12 in the engine, 1 in each side torso and one in the left leg. Clan XL and the DHS eat 4 crit slots out of the side torso's, so a UAC20 will fit but an LB-20X will only fit in the arms.

The Warhawk has all it's guns in the arms, the entire torso sections are filled with 20 fixed DHS with just enough space in the right torso to fit the targetting computer.

Also none of the variants of either mech come with both arms with a lower arm actulator, so both are pretty much just extra big and clanny Jagermechs even before omnitech rules remove arm movement with big guns.

The Madcat is one of the two completely pimped out mechs in the clan packs, the other being the Ryoken. Endo, Ferro, XL engine, 15 fixed DHS all of which are in the engine with only the hitboxes to have any hope of balancing the raw TT stat advantage this mech has over everything else. Also can't fit any AC20 weapons in the side torso and the CT hardpoint has 1 crit to work with.

Like the Madcat the Ryoken gets Endo, Ferro and a big XL engine, but thats all countered out by not having any extra heat sinks in said engine, so once you start building it's going to run out of space fast. The Ryoken can fit 13 medium lasers compared to the Blackhawks 12, but lack of crit space for heatsinks will leave you going into battle underweight. 90% of the mechs firepower is in the arms.

Blackhawk and Thor have 5 jumpets, 4 in the legs 1 in the CT.

Puma has a fixed Flamer in the CT.

Uller only has guns in the arms, but is also the only non-Daishi mech that has space in the legs to hide the ammo, but it's a light so that is of dubious use.

Edited by CheeseThief, 08 March 2014 - 11:18 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

So the warkhawk's a big arse awesome that can be completly stripped in a few arm hits, madcats too fast for my tastes, and probably wont have much for backup ammuniton if it carries more than a few ammo consuming weapons...Soooooooo about the only viable and somewhat flexible option is the direwolf.....

Well that saves me a bit of cash now doesnt it?

[xXBagheeraXx]

CheeseThief, on 08 March 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

For a nice tool for looking up the battlemech builds is the Solaris Skunk Werks program. It's a CBT mech contruction program that you can download record sheets for, it has most of the older mech designs with references to the books they came out of.

As for mech information;

The Direwolf has 15 fixed DHS, 12 in the engine, 1 in each side torso and one in the left leg. Clan XL and the DHS eat 4 crit slots out of the side torso's, so a UAC20 will fit but an LB-20X will only fit in the arms.

The Warhawk has all it's guns in the arms, the entire torso sections are filled with 20 fixed DHS with just enough space in the right torso to fit the targetting computer.

Also none of the variants of either mech come with both arms with a lower arm actulator, so both are pretty much just extra big and clanny Jagermechs even before omnitech rules remove arm movement with big guns.

The Madcat is one of the two completely pimped out mechs in the clan packs, the other being the Ryoken. Endo, Ferro, XL engine, 15 fixed DHS all of which are in the engine with only the hitboxes to have any hope of balancing the raw TT stat advantage this mech has over everything else. Also can't fit any AC20 weapons in the side torso and the CT hardpoint has 1 crit to work with.

Like the Madcat the Ryoken gets Endo, Ferro and a big XL engine, but thats all countered out by not having any extra heat sinks in said engine, so once you start building it's going to run out of space fast. Also the Ryoken can fit 13 medium lasers compared to the Blackhawks 12, but lack of crit space for heatsinks will leave you going into battle underweight.

Blackhawk and Thor have 5 jumpets, 4 in the legs 1 in the CT.

Puma has a fixed Flamer in the CT.

Uller only has guns in the arms, but is also the only non-Daishi mech that has space in the legs to hide the ammo, but it's a light so that is of dubious use.

So the only ones that can really be flexible and go ballistic/energy would be the madcat and Daishi? Thanks man, this helps a lot...lol

How do you determine how many heatsinks will be fixed? Are they the engine mounted sinks only? Or is it in some rulebook somewhere?

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 08 March 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[FireSlade]

You are forgetting one important thing, CASE is built in so no worries about ammo explosions. The heat sinks are a good thing since I believe that PGI will try to balance with heat so expect even ballistics to run hot. Also the Warhawk will not be a brawler in any sense because of its heat production. Sitting 500+ meters back lobbing 15 damage per CERPPC will give most players reason to fear you and you little concern of someone surgically removing both arms.

[xXBagheeraXx]

FireSlade, on 08 March 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

You are forgetting one important thing, CASE is built in so no worries about ammo explosions. The heat sinks are a good thing since I believe that PGI will try to balance with heat so expect even ballistics to run hot. Also the Warhawk will not be a brawler in any sense because of its heat production. Sitting 500+ meters back lobbing 15 damage per CERPPC will give most players reason to fear you and you little concern of someone surgically removing both arms.

Thats the thing, you wont have to be surgical to remove crap...and if you get rushed, or have high dpm long range autocannons you can shred those arms in a matter of seconds.

@Cheese any idea on how to use that skunkworks program? no idea what im doing there LOL.

[CheeseThief]

Fixed things are things that an Omnimech comes with my default, they cannon be removed, replaced or relocated.

Clan mechs are still constrained by the minimum of 10 heatsinks, but some mechs come with extra ones bolted on and can't be removed. Fixed things are pretty much designed to balance the hull since Omnimechs turned up with the first customisation rules for CBT, some are really good, like the madcat with it's 10+5 in the engine, and some are there for flavor like keeping all the warhawks guns in the arms, and some are there to troll you like the Ryoken being locked out of heatsink slots in the engine.

Also, for a decent Energy/Balistic mech, thats pretty much the Thor's hat. Mostly in the arms, but it still has that big sod off engine and jump jets,

Most non-light clan mechs come with big engines compared to their IS counterparts, thats because the Endo/Ferro upgrades take half the space, XL engines don't kill you in a single lost side torso, and their weapons and equipment are significantly light, 4 tons for a large laser, 7 tons of a UAC5, 5 tons for an LRM20 and so on.



As for SSW, make sure you download the SSW Master record list from the website, the program is just the construction rules without it. Extract the zip, then import the list into the program through the Open Mech button, it looks like a folder. From there you can open the mechs to have a look at them, fool around with builds and if it's an omnimech, cycle through varients.

Edited by CheeseThief, 08 March 2014 - 11:47 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

CheeseThief, on 08 March 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

Fixed things are things that an Omnimech comes with my default, they cannon be removed, replaced or relocated.

Clan mechs are still constrained by the minimum of 10 heatsinks, but some mechs come with extra ones bolted on and can't be removed. Fixed things are pretty much designed to balance the hull since Omnimechs turned up with the first customisation rules for CBT, some are really good, like the madcat with it's 10+5 in the engine, and some are there for flavor like keeping all the warhawks guns in the arms, and some are there to troll you like the Ryoken being locked out of heatsink slots in the engine.

Also, for a decent Energy/Balistic mech, thats pretty much the Thor's hat. Mostly in the arms, but it still has that big sod off engine and jump jets,

Most non-light clan mechs come with big engines compared to their IS counterparts, thats because the Endo/Ferro upgrades take half the space, XL engines don't kill you in a single lost side torso, and their weapons and equipment are significantly light, 4 tons for a large laser, 6 tons of a UAC5, 5 tons for an LRM20 and so on.



As for SSW, make sure you download the SSW Master record list from the website, the program is just the construction rules without it. Extract and import the list into the program through the Open Mech button, it looks like a folder.

This all kinda turns the whole "clan mechs r awesome" on its head...they are SO inflexible...besides the evil weapons they get Innersphere kinda poops on Clan mechs for flexibility....

[CheeseThief]

Which is where PGI's omni-pod switching comes into play.

IS can customise their chassis, Clanners can customise their hard points.

[xXBagheeraXx]

CheeseThief, on 08 March 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

Which is where PGI's omni-pod switching comes into play.

IS can customise their chassis, Clanners can customise their hard points.

I DID kinda figure out the skunkworks and immediatly made a dual gauss Daishi....if this program is legit im 2 larges, 4 mediums 17 doubles SEVEN tons of ammuniton and I still have about 5.5 tons to play with...JEEBUS CHRIST IN A HANDBASKET xD

[xXBagheeraXx]

If this is built correctly....

HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUEEEEEE

[Pariah Devalis]

xXBagheeraXx, on 09 March 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

If this is built correctly....

HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUEEEEEE

Why stop there?

Spoiler

Dire Wolf Boomwolf
100 tons

Movement: 48.6 KPH
Engine: 300 XL
Heat Sinks: 20 [40]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: (STANDARD)
Armor: 592 (STANDARD)
Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso 112
Center Torso (rear) 12
Right Torso 72
Right Torso (rear) 12
Left Torso 72
Left Torso (rear) 12
Right Arm 68
Left Arm 68
Right Leg 74
Left Leg 74

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15
ER PPC LA 15
Ultra AC/20 RA/RT 7
Ultra AC/20 LA/LT 7
Streak SRM 6 RT 4

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Ultra AC/20 Ammo LL 7
Ultra AC/20 Ammo LT 7
Ultra AC/20 Ammo RL 7
Ultra AC/20 Ammo LL 7
Ultra AC/20 Ammo RL 7
Ultra AC/20 Ammo LT 7
Streak SRM 6 Ammo HD 100

To put things into perspective, each ERPPC is a gauss rifle. You have enough DHS to fire them regularly. When things get close, you have twin Ultra-20's and a streak 6. GG.

And limited Timber Wolf builds?

Spoiler

Timber Wolf Harbinger
75 tons

Movement: 81.0 KPH
Engine: 375 XL
Heat Sinks: 22 [44]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 440 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Center Torso 80
Center Torso (rear) 12
Right Torso 54
Right Torso (rear) 10
Left Torso 54
Left Torso (rear) 10
Right Arm 48
Left Arm 48
Right Leg 54
Left Leg 54

Weapon Loc Heat
ER PPC LA 15
ER PPC RA 15
ER Medium Laser RA 5
ER Medium Laser LA 5
LRM 10 LT 4
LRM 10 RT 4

Ammo Loc Ammo
LRM Ammo CT 1 Ton of Ammunition

Equipment Loc
Active Probe RT

Can tape down both 15 damage ERPPC. Can supplement the ERPPC fire with a smattering of indirect LRM fire, or swap those out for a pair of SSRM-4 and an extra DHS, that way if anything gets close to it it can use the ERMLas (which are snub nosed IS large lasers) and the missile systems as light pesticide.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 09 March 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[FupDup]

FireSlade, on 08 March 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

You are forgetting one important thing, CASE is built in so no worries about ammo explosions. The heat sinks are a good thing since I believe that PGI will try to balance with heat so expect even ballistics to run hot. Also the Warhawk will not be a brawler in any sense because of its heat production. Sitting 500+ meters back lobbing 15 damage per CERPPC will give most players reason to fear you and you little concern of someone surgically removing both arms.

CASE doesn't stop an ammo explosion, it just contains it to a single body location. You still lose the limb every time.

PS: I don't have the link, but on reddit Garth actually said "I will die before I let Clan ERPPCs do 15 damage" (exact wording may vary, meaning is still the same). Garth isn't here anymore, but the point is that we probably shouldn't expect the biggest Clan weapons to be able to unleash their full fury in MWO.

Edited by FupDup, 09 March 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Garth is gone. Also, given the limitations built into the clan mechs, outside of the Direwolf no currently "available" clan mech can carry two gauss rifles or load up autocannons dakka style. 15 damage clan ERPPC are hot, require a huge commitment to DHS, and provide the only pairable weapon system that stands any sort of equivalence vs the current slew of custom IS builds running about. Anyways, even if they were scaled back to 12 or 13 damage per, they would be deliciously solid weapons.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 09 March 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Even if they dont do their full damage, just the fact that i can cram all that firepower on there is ridonculous....especially that gauss build, and "Widowmaker II" Up there.....that scares me xD

So the only thing im not sure on now is how those omni pods actaully work....Do they limit how many/what type of weapons i have installed in a given loaction? Or is it just "Slap these on them cram away!!!"?

[Pariah Devalis]

Left and right arm on a Timber Wolf prime carries two energy hard points. One of the other TWolfs have a ballistic arm. You can take that ballistic arm and replace one of the 2E arms in the prime chassis. Swapping sections to swap hard points, not preloaded weapons, essentially.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Garth is gone. Also, given the limitations built into the clan mechs, outside of the Direwolf no currently "available" clan mech can carry two gauss rifles or load up autocannons dakka style. 15 damage clan ERPPC are hot, require a huge commitment to DHS, and provide the only pairable weapon system that stands any sort of equivalence vs the current slew of custom IS builds running about. Anyways, even if they were scaled back to 12 or 13 damage per, they would be deliciously solid weapons.

Yeah, everyones complaining about the ac5/ppc poptarts, might be the main saving grace for IS mechs till they get higher end tech...NOBODY is going to want to get hit with some of the configs I Drummed up that i KNOW people are going to be cheezing around in when these mechs hit. I mean that Gauss build ffs....the best one I have atm is my 45 alpha Muromets....that Dire wolf? HEY KIDS CAN YOU SAY TWO SHOT????!!! even with the nerfed gauss, i carry nothing but lasers for the purpose of boresighting my gauss rifles and timing the charge so I hit with all the weapons at once, like I do with the mediums on my muromets, and that mech can toss up 700 damage games.....That Dire wolf? Jeebus....Man this summer is going to be AWESOME, I cant wait!! xD

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Left and right arm on a Timber Wolf prime carries two energy hard points. One of the other TWolfs have a ballistic arm. You can take that ballistic arm and replace one of the 2E arms in the prime chassis. Swapping sections to swap hard points, not preloaded weapons, essentially.

OH ok, so another version of the chassis has to have the hardpoints @ the location you want them before you can get the omni pods and put them there? You cant just BUY an omni pod with the hardpoints you want for the location?

Also, are the hardpoints limited in number/type for that given location, like the ballistic right arm of the madcat, is it ballistic only and if so how many can you fit in that location?

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 09 March 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

You can buy the omni modules alone, but it is a hard point that exists on another version of that chassis. So it is not 100% free hard point selection, but it is pretty damned good. Each omnimodule has its own set of hardpoints.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 09 March 2014 - 09:00 AM.