20 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

As you all know, the current system with the Gauss is to charge the weapon up(click and hold) at which point, when the weapon goes 'green', you have a small window to release the shot. Theoretically, this is an emulation of the 'hold breath' mechanics of standard FPS sniper rifles.

This change was done to make the weapon harder to use in short range situations.. which, while it has worked against faster mechs, really hasn't changed the weapon against slower weapons but has made it more annoying to use(and thus relegated to a second line weapon, used only by those who really want to use it).

Now, the weapon also has a 90% chance of exploding if it is hit, regardless of the 'charge' state.

My suggestion is to change the system to work as follows:

Change the system from a click-and-hold to charge to a two click system. First click charges(primes) the weapon and a second click to fire once charged with no 'shoot-or-lose-charge window'. Allow it to hold a charge until discharged. This mechanic would smooth out the use of the weapon, eliminating the frustration of losing the charge if you take that extra moment to adjust your aim. This also allows you to 'prime' the weapon for first contact and, while it would allow for one good snap shot, it would keep the use of the weapon 'clunky' to help reduce its usefulness in a brawl(the intent of the original change to the system).

The additional change that I would make is to make the chance to explode based on weapon charge. If you aren't holding a charge on the weapon(aka the capacitors for the weapons aren't charged, which is via lore what causes the weapon to 'explode'),then the weapon doesn't explode. If you have the weapon primed and ready to fire, it retains the current 90% chance to explode.

[xXBagheeraXx]

OI! YOU OVER THERE! STOP BEATING THAT DEAD HORSE!

Its an ok Idea, but it will get lost in the flood of "LOL SHUTUP NOOB GAUSS IS FINE LIKE IT IS NOW GAUSS WAS OP QQ RAGE!!"

or "STUPID PGI OVER NERFED MAH FAVORITE WEAPON QQ RAAAAGE"

I dont know how many times ive simply suggested the following:

Remove the charge time, but keep the lenghty reload it has now. (Current gauss rifles charge time + reload time = new gauss rifles reload)

Reduce the crit explosion chance to about 25 to 30% Buff its HP back to 10 or 12. More than the ac10s by a bit, but less than the big boy ac20

Give the gauss rifle some sort of trail effect, similar to Mechwarrior 4's Corkscrew or some such...get some use out of that Cryteck engine you guys keep tossing in my face when i launch. This makes gauss snipers very visible to anyone at long range when they fire, and daul gauss equipped mechs can get singled out because of it, just like Ac40 jagers do when they are spotted.

Call that sucker balanced. Your slower rate of fire will lose out to an ac20 equipped mech in a short range knife fight, but It wont gimp all those ballistic mechs that cannot mount an ac20....like most of the highlanders but the ONE good one...or that ONE crappy victor you have to grind (yeah im even tossing the dragon slayer in there) to get the the two good ac20 ones. That should not be the case, a mech should not be the sucky one because it only has one ballistic, and cannot mount an ac20 there, because the only alternative is the "inferior" gauss rifle.

and lets face it, the nerf wasnt to stop brawling with it, you still saw more ac20 atlases than gauss atlases. it was a direct nerf to the Gauss K2, which failed. While you dont see as many gauss k2s, everyone has moved on to gauss Jagers, and Gauss Catas. The nerf did not work to stop boating and only encouraged it, as that is the only time the weapon is really a viable option...GG PGI, UFAIL at balancing.

[Mcgral18]

Personally, I think prefer the 1 click we currently have over your 2 click solution.

Would I prefer a 6 second cooldown? I'm not too sure, the gauss is pretty simply to use as it is, and you'd lose over a second, but on the other hand you'd never miss a shot due to the charge time.

[Khobai]

the current system makes it very difficult to poptart using a gauss rifle. allowing you to hold the charge for longer could enable poptarting with gauss rifles to be commonplace again.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Khobai, on 09 March 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

the current system makes it very difficult to poptart using a gauss rifle. allowing you to hold the charge for longer could enable poptarting with gauss rifles to be commonplace again.

Poptarting is still very easily doable with gauss ppcs. Even a scrub like me in the post nerf highlander can still lob a gauss rifle over a hill with the gauss mechanic. All you have to do is start charging near the top of the jump. The only skill involved is the twitch aiming at the top of the jump that is only slightly harder to do than with the ac ppc combo we are seeing now.

And I highly doubt ppc gauss will make a HUGE comeback over the ac5 meta we have now, seeing as how ac5's, or dual uac5's offer a much better short range option, and higher dpm than a single gauss. Ironically these builds are a direct result of the gauss nerf in the first place...lol.

[Khobai]

Quote

Poptarting is still very easily doable with gauss ppcs.

Yet no one does it. If it was very easy everyone would be doing it. The meta is PPC/AC5 because no one wants to use gauss.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 09 March 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Yet no one does it. If it was very easy everyone would be doing it. The meta is PPC/AC5 because no one wants to use gauss.

I use it with 6 JJs in the Victor K...it's pretty fun being able to jump that high.

It is pretty easy as well, just follow the above advice. Of course, AC5s and Ultras will get you more DPS and are easier to use, just 5 less pinpoint damage for a tad more tonnage.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Khobai, on 09 March 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Yet no one does it. If it was very easy everyone would be doing it. The meta is PPC/AC5 because no one wants to use gauss.

People still do it....some people do it very well. the ac5 option is simply easier, and arguably much more dangerous now, so if the gauss was un-nerfed the gauss ppc combo would not necessarily reign supreme again. I just simply want an option for non ac20 assaults I own, and would like my heavy metal to become dangerous again...

[SgtMagor]

rather have a 5 second reload than the double click fire, or have weapon recycle again. besides when your in the middle of a firefight you cant hear the gauss charging up! and you wind up dying because your main weapon for your alpha strike misfired. yea haven't used my HM or DS much. I migrated to lbx10, and other AC's instead...

[Foxfire]

The issue is that I doubt that we will see a 'one click' Gauss again in this game.

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Personally, I think prefer the 1 click we currently have over your 2 click solution.

Would I prefer a 6 second cooldown? I'm not too sure, the gauss is pretty simply to use as it is, and you'd lose over a second, but on the other hand you'd never miss a shot due to the charge time.

My issue with the current system is that, if you get desynced(be it too long or too short) off your rhythm of charge, release, cooldown in the middle of a firefight, you lose precious time by having to recharge. This is an issue that is exaggerated by the muted queues given for when the Gauss is charged(green bar and a sound effect that is easily drowned out in an active firefight or non-existent on HPG).

It is a very unforgiving weapon, as is, that offers no real margin for error on multiple aspects of how to use it due to the way the mechanics are structured. I don't think that it is a bad thing to make it a little more forgiving by eliminating some of the punishment introduced with the current mechanics.

Edited by Foxfire, 09 March 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[Quaamik]

Foxfire, on 09 March 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

......

This change was done to make the weapon harder to use in short range situations.. which, while it has worked against faster mechs, really hasn't changed the weapon against slower weapons but has made it more annoying to use(and thus relegated to a second line weapon, used only by those who really want to use it).

Now, the weapon also has a 90% chance of exploding if it is hit, regardless of the 'charge' state.

My suggestion is to change the system to work as follows:

Change the system from a click-and-hold to charge to a two click system. ......................

A second reason was to "de-couple" the gauss from the PPC in the then popular 2PPC/1Gauss builds.

Personally, I think it broke the gauss. It eliminated the "twitch fire" ability, but made it difficult o effectively use in anything except sniper / pop tart roles. While it can be used in a brawl, it is far inferior to the AC20, AC10 and LBX10 at close range.

I suggested at the time, and still do, that they just make it "fire on release". As in push the button and let it fire when the button releases. It still allows for the sniper role, makes it much more effective as brawler, still keeps it de-coupled from other weapons, and makes the high chance of exploding when hit make more sense. It also makes it much easier for someone to learn to use. It would replicate the "set triggers" used on many rifles.

The chance of exploding could be adjusted (I personally think its a little high) but that could be a minor tweak.

Edited by Quaamik, 09 March 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Foxfire]

That wouldn't do much to decouple weapons if all you had to do is release the button. Honestly, they should tweak projectile speed to achieve weapon de-coupling since the issue with that is when you have multiple heavy hitting weapons of different types performing similarly enough to allow for single massive punches.

Edited by Foxfire, 09 March 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[BoPop]

*takes a few swings at the dead horse*

the charge up time on gauss is effin' stupid. if anything the ppc's should have gotten the charge. a gun is a gun... click, boom. the ppc's should have some kindof particle coalescing before they get flung down range kind of charge up.

but I never felt either weapon deserved a nerf. the heat penalties helped curb insane ppc action enough.

if pgi's goal was to stop some meta builds they did it backwards imo. if they intended to stop pop tarting, all they did was make it harder to kill pop tarters. the pop tarter is still at the advantage, gauss vs gauss. but most pop tarters use ppcs anyways. why take a weapon with finite ammo and a chance to explode when you can go infinite? just watch your heat. the ppc almost feels like the noob tube of this game and causes a lack of diversity on the battle field.

so the gun that can explode and has finite ammo gets the nerf but the infinite shooting ppc was fine? dumb.

not to mention every mech has several energy hard points but only some have a ballistic or two which means the ppc is more versatile, useable, period.. dumb.

they f'd up but we wont see change so might as well learn to use the stupid thing cuz it's a good weapon until you use up your ammo or loose the armor surrounding it. what am I saying? EFF the gauss use a ppc... *yawn*

[Lightfoot]

It's not beating a dead horse. The Gauss de-sync is a bad implementation of the feature. We will get it changed. Isn't it obvious that 90 percent of players hate the mechanic or can't use it? It's got nothing to do with Battletech anyway. It was just ripped out of first person shooter and dropped into MWO. MechWarrior is not Quake.

How could any dev team say they are abiding by Battletech and do this? You show me where in Battletech descriptions of the Gauss Rifle it says it can only hold it's capacitors charged for 1 second. Go ahead, show me. Anyone? Didn't think so.

The de-sync is just to cover for how weak MWO's mechs are to normal damage of the weapons. True they are at 2x normal recharge but that's no excuse for not making MWO Battletech functional.

[E_Crow]

Lightfoot, on 09 March 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

It's not beating a dead horse. The Gauss de-sync is a bad implementation of the feature. We will get it changed. Isn't it obvious that 90 percent of players hate the mechanic or can't use it? It's got nothing to do with Battletech anyway. It was just ripped out of first person shooter and dropped into MWO. MechWarrior is not Quake.

How could any dev team say they are abiding by Battletech and do this? You show me where in Battletech descriptions of the Gauss Rifle it says it can only hold it's capacitors charged for 1 second. Go ahead, show me. Anyone? Didn't think so.

The de-sync is just to cover for how weak MWO's mechs are to normal damage of the weapons. True they are at 2x normal recharge but that's no excuse for not making MWO Battletech functional.

Rant over yet?

Good.

Yes, people do hate the new mechanic. Yes, it is hard to use. But, that doesn't mean that it is broken and needs to be fixed. If they hate the mechanic, then they don't need to use it. In case you hadn't noticed, it hasn't exactly been forced on them. If they can't use it, then they either practice with it until they can or they don't use it. And in case you hadn't noticed, MWO is a first person shooter. It is a very complex one, but it is one.

Get over yourself.

[Mad Ox]

Just recently started MWO and been real long time since played Mechwarrior games. So old way of gauss wasn't an issue to me. Was a bit odd and very un-intuitive to begin with the hold and then short window to fire time was a bit odd for sure.

But sitting back made sense and sort of helps me conserve ammo. Guass is a tough weapon to fit in as its sort of best off all with few minuses. Sort of a meeting of all weapon strengths:

- insane Range we've all been on target side of this with no real way to be sure exactly where if they are far enough.
- pinpoint High Damage (battle tech 15 damage was huge game changer head shots instant kills and on alot of mechs compared to mechs that could do before with AC20)
- Low heat and can be stuffed into just about any mech with weight for it as not alot of slots

Range Low heat and high damage make it a painful weapon to deal with and not see everyone using.

Be nice to see a few small changes;
- little longer shoot window
- Really like to see when critted do less damage when not charged or outside a few seconds of being charged. That 20 points is a bit more crippling then should be. Even on arm that really rips into ya. Less damage then regular ammo going off but with 7 slots its pretty much guaranteed to go off. At least if empty of ammo have it go offline/grounded and do no damage if critted
- So few shots a ton quite a limiter maybe limit it even more we are talking about a pinpoint round that does 15 damage to extreme ranges ... though Atlas I was spectating that had like 60 shots other night was rediculous.

All in all makes the weapon unique but in comparison even with heat PPC's Large Laser (ER also) and with weight/slots AC20 still come out better choice. Hard to see going with it over the usual PPC/AC20 combo if I can sure close in PPC not doing anything but okay AC20 will rip them to shreds up close. Add on PPC at range makes heat more doable got range to hide if needed up close AC20 point blank low hit takes car of being in close.

Personally Long ranges I will stick to some LRM's go over hills etc not to mention causes Bitching betty to scare player INCOMING MISSILES!!!! heck i take LRM5 on dragons just for that effect and for something to do at ranges when all hiding.

Oh well sure the gauss fight will continue but with as powerful as it can be don't see a real perfect fit for it anytime soon.

[Dirus Nigh]

Khobai, on 09 March 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Yet no one does it. If it was very easy everyone would be doing it. The meta is PPC/AC5 because no one wants to use gauss.

I've been doing it sense I got the shadowhawk. Well before any of the competitive players such as JagerXII started doing it on his stream. Poptarting with a guess rifle is more forgiving then trying to snipe while hill humping or peeking around corners. When I jump I just drop back behind cover, when i'm peeking over terrain I have a delay before I can get back into cover.

[Bobzilla]

Thats the thing, the best weapon to fight poptarts, just became completly unable to shoot poptarts, while still being able to be shot from poptarts.

Also the reason they put it in was to stop it from being used at short range, so it had a disadvantage (well additional, like the fragility, explosiveness, weight, slots, slow reload). Just giving it a min range would have done this much more effectively.

At short range, this mechanic really only hampers slower mechs with less of a twist range vs light mechs that are circling giving limited windows of oppurtunity. So this just made the gauss less valid in an assult being attack by a lights circle of death.

[Colonel Fubar]

Dear Mech Gods what happened to our Battletech Universe?
And supposedly all in the name of balance and pop tart restrictions...Really...Horse manure.
The Universe according to PGI has turned the best direct fire weapon system into 15 tons of junk. Now add the even further restriction of a (two) gauss weapon firing limit thrown in for good measure to insure that only a very small minority use the weapon system. Why don't we eliminate the castrated gauss all together. But Hell, lets don't stop there; give the LRM whiners what they want too...worthless missiles.
In MW3 & 4 the only one's who whined about Gauss pop tarts were the ones who couldn't cope with the threat, which I personally had no problem dealing with with because pop tarter's make very easy targets. Until That Day!

[Matthew Ace]

I might get stoned to death for wanting this on a Gauss but I'll do it anyway. Hehe.

I'm fine with the charge mechanism. However, I'd prefer the Gauss to be buffed as a singular weapon, and more emphasis placed on it as a long range weapon, but nerfed when used in 2s or more (much like how you cannot fire 3 gauss at the same time; basically being able to shoot only 1 gauss at a time). While players are currently fine with the Gauss used singularly, it simply doesn't feel as lethal as it was in TT. I want fear to be instilled on the receiving end when a player is carrying a Gauss Rifle, instead of only feeling that way when a player carries 2.

Here goes:
Effective Range: 800 (Max range 2000)
Damage: 18 (+3)
Cooldown: 5.5 (+1.5)
Charge window: 0.5 (-0.25. To make up for not being able to shoot more than 1)
DPS at cyclic rate: 3 (Originally - 3.157)
Ammo/ton: 10 (No change)

I know what players are thinking: WHAT ARE YOU, INSANE???? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING?! But I don't care.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 24 January 2015 - 01:57 AM.