47 replies to this topic

[SiriusBeef]

Roland, on 10 March 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Er.. You either never played those games, or you just don't remember them.. Because they all had MASSIVE balance issues.

Honestly, despite my constant criticisms of MWO at this point, I don't pretend like the older MW titles were better really.

The biggest problem of MWO for me at this point, is simply that it's a huge pain to simply play it with my friends. If that one thing was fixed, and we could easily drop together? I'd actually be pretty happy with MWO.

I can actually list all of the balance issues of the prior titles if you want... but trust me, there were massive balance problems. You probably just never played those games competitively online, and thus never knew about the balance issues.

The NBT Hardcore Mod was, in the end, about the best balance I have ever seen in an MW title. Even the Clan/IS balance was not that bad... Just goes to show that the fans do indeed know better. It's really a shame that these chumps are not humble enough to accept advice from experience.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 10 March 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

I still remember the UAC unjamming mini-game we had when it first was introduced...

(for those that wasn't here, you had to manually add the UAC to every weapon group in sequence, then remove it from all the weapon groups in sequence, then add it again to the one you wanted it in - yes, that was the actual mechanic they thought up to unjam a jammed UAC! It got changed in a hurry when Bryan almost threw his keyboard across the office when his UAC jammed in a match...)

That little trip down memory lane done, I fail to see what this proposal does that's worth the programming time? Oh, and firing 2x20 damage from a UAC/20 in a second won't be fun. Or it will, depending on which side of the gun you are.

If this line was fr guys like me... Thank you. I agree completely I would not like to face UAC20s but would happily wield em!

[Bloodweaver]

Koniving, on 10 March 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

For a multi-shot version of the UAC/5...

Let's say it's a 3 shot burst = 5 damage weapon (akin to the GM Whirlwind/5).

You get off 3 shots, and then the ultra mechanic lets you do a second burst while the primary cassette (magazine) is reloading.

Okay. Let's say the jam chance is 20%.

You do the main 3 shots. That's fine. The 'double tap' 4, 5, 6 rounds in that firing sequence are 1 (6.67% chance to jam) 2 (6.67%) and 3 (6.67%) totaling approximately 20%. You'd obviously jam less often, but there's 3 tries to jam because of the secondary three-round burst.

It'd be 10% per double-tap shot if it's a 2 round burst. Though click-on click-off sounds iffy. A simple 2 round burst would be better. 2.5 damage per shot. Totals 5 damage for a 'single firing' and the 'double tap' would shell out another 2 rounds with a 10% chance each (if it's 20% chance now).

Of course, expanding out a UAC/2 would be 1 damage per shot, but 2 shots per trigger pull and 2 shots on the double tap too. A UAC/10 would be 2 shots of 5 damage each. A UAC/20 would be two shots of 10 damage each.

That makes the HBK-IIC a bit less terrifying when you consider the UAC/20 + UAC/20 combination it comes with stock.

I'd like UACs to simply fire twice as many shells in the same span of time as the standard AC's equivalent burst. So if a particular AC/5 model (and its UAC counterpart, when firing in standard, non-Ultra mode) fires 3 shells in the space of 0.75 seconds, its Ultra counterpart would fire 6 shells in the space of 0.75 seconds, with a significant likelihood of jamming. Several reasons I find this to be a favorable implementation:

1) It gives the weapon a unique purpose that cannot be replicated with other weapon systems. It differentiates Ultra mode from other ACs. An example: to answer a specific question posed above, it preserves a difference between RACs and UACs. RACs could hammer a relentless torrent of bullets into a target, while UACs could spit everything out together in one magnificent (if brief) bullet hell before having to "recharge."

2) Jamming suddenly becomes a lot more understandable. You've installed a one-ton piece of equipment that shoves 20 bullets into a space designed for ten, then blows them all out at once like confetti from one of these (bonus: includes illustration of jam mechanic in action at 1:22)

3) Having multi-shot ACs, and then doubling that shot number for UACs, provides you with another tool to balance the weapon; bullet spray. Whether or not this would be needed is besides the point; the point is that another tool becomes available aside from the ones we already have(heat, firing rate, ammo/ton, etc.). More options is always good. Aside from that, it's also accurate to lore. From Sarna: "...the extremely high rate of fire causes ultra autocannons to vibrate violently, leading to higher incidence of weapon jams. Though giving the weapon an equivalent volume of fire, because of these vibrations ultra autocannon fire is not as accurate as a pair of standard weapons." This could be another thing that differentiates them from RACs.

4) The in-game model with three rotating barrels makes a lot more sense.

5) It's a simple, easily-understood mechanic. Not that the one we have now isn't simple, it is. But so is this one.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 11 March 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Bloodweaver]

Roughneck45, on 10 March 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Still using random mechanics as a solution though.

I think the best way to use them would be to give them a spin up time. The first shot or two would have a slower recycle than a standard AC5, but by the time you got to the third or fourth shot you would have a higher rate of fire than the standard, you would just have to hold the trigger down. Then either give it its own overheat bar that jams when reaching a threshold or have it generate more heat than normal after the first few shots.

Removes the random, forces you to remain exposed to get full effect and will either jam or make you over heat with extended use.

This would be a good addition to my own idea. Hold down the trigger to "charge"(load ammo into) the gun, not unlike the Gauss rifle mechanic. Unlike with the Gauss, though, you CAN fire instantly, if you so choose - releasing the trigger immediately would fire a single bullet, just like a standard AC/5. The longer you hold down the trigger, the more shots are loaded until you reach a threshold. I actually find the idea of "charging" ballistics a bit silly in general, but it would be another way to prevent the weapon from becoming overpowered.

[Roland]

Bloodweaver, on 11 March 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

This would be a good addition to my own idea. Hold down the trigger to "charge"(load ammo into) the gun, not unlike the Gauss rifle mechanic. Unlike with the Gauss, though, you CAN fire instantly, if you so choose - releasing the trigger immediately would fire a single bullet, just like a standard AC/5. The longer you hold down the trigger, the more shots are loaded until you reach a threshold. I actually find the idea of "charging" ballistics a bit silly in general, but it would be another way to prevent the weapon from becoming overpowered.

Huh.. this too is a kind of interesting idea. Although it seems like it might make the UAC kind of LESS of a weapon which you are using to dump a bunch of damage in an emergency. Instead, it'd be a situation where you were kind of prepping the weapon ahead of time.

I'm not quite sure how it would work... would like some more info.

Presumably, charging the UAC would have to result in more shots being fired over whole time from when you press the trigger to when the last shot in the burst is fired, compared to if you just fired normally on reload.

[Bloodweaver]

Willard Phule, on 10 March 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

I dunno, man. I know that ever since MW2, it's been a single round as far as the Mechwarrior titles were concerned.

Not true.

The ACs in MW2 and its GBL expansion pack were extremely rapid-fire. Constant-fire, really. It was difficult to fire just one round instead of three or four. Now, if I remember correctly, each round of a UAC DID do its full damage to a single point. I think. But, the animation and the sound effect clearly expressed a burst-shot mechanic.

In MW3, all ACs were burst-fire.

It wasn't until MW4 that ACs came to be fully implemented as single-shot tank cannons.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 11 March 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[Bloodweaver]

Roland, on 11 March 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Presumably, charging the UAC would have to result in more shots being fired over whole time from when you press the trigger to when the last shot in the burst is fired, compared to if you just fired normally on reload.

Delicious bullet spam is the solution >:D

[Sable]

Although i appreciate the new approach to a possible UAC mechanic i don't find myself drawn to it. I'm more fond of the idea that UACs function in burst while ACs are the single shots. AC5 shoots 1, 5 damage shell, while UAC5 shoots a short burst of 5, 1 damaging shells. Would make it a bit more unique and solve the fears people have about future UAC20s, In this case you could have 1 giant ac20 shell coming at you or 20, 1 damaging shells coming at you in quick succession.