38 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Was just watching the MW2 ghost Bear intro posted by Reclusiarch and noticed how Awesome the Kodiak is. I think the Balius is pretty cool.

[SMDMadCow]

The Balius is the only Totem Omni, the rest are standard Battlemechs - not omnimechs.

[KuroNyra]

what's a "totem" mech?

[SMDMadCow]

Its a mech designed to look like the Totem animal of a clan.
Mandrill
Fire Scorpion
Balius
Kodiak (ish)

[aniviron]

KuroNyra, on 11 March 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

what's a "totem" mech?

http://www.sarna.net...i/Totem_%27Mech

[SMDMadCow]

aniviron, on 11 March 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...i/Totem_%27Mech

Over half those mechs dont belong on that list and is one of the few places Sarna is innacurate.

[aniviron]

SMDMadCow, on 11 March 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Over half those mechs dont belong on that list and is one of the few places Sarna is innacurate.

Good news: it's a wiki and you can edit it! I know Sarna isn't foolproof, but it's a good starting point, and more or less answers OP's question, even if there are some mechs on the list that are debatably accurate.

[Pariah Devalis]

Incorrect MadCow. Clan Nova Cat has a totem mech worth fearing, and it is an omnimech as well. Perhaps you have heard of it? You know... 70 tons, with a Prime that has 25 double heat sinks, 3 ERLLas, and 2 ERPPC..... Or an alt variant with two ERMLas and SIX LRM-15.

Damn. I appear to be drawing a blank on Clan Nova Cat's penultimate omnimech's name. Hm...

[SMDMadCow]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 March 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Incorrect MadCow. Clan Nova Cat has a totem mech worth fearing, and it is an omnimech as well. Perhaps you have heard of it? You know... 70 tons, with a Prime that has 25 double heat sinks, 3 ERLLas, and 2 ERPPC..... Or an alt variant with two ERMLas and SIX LRM-15.

Damn. I appear to be drawing a blank on Clan Nova Cat's penultimate omnimech's name. Hm...

Its not a totem mech and looks nothing like a Nova Cat. If it were a totem mech, it would say so in its TRO entry, which it does not.

[Pariah Devalis]

The Nova Cat absolutely is a Totem Mech. A totem mech does not need to look like the totem animal to be one, it needs to represent something core to the Clan. A mech NAMED AFTER THE CLAN it was DESIGNED TO INSPIRE AND FOCUS the members of is not a totem mech?


Maybe to you.  To every other living thing, it is.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 March 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[SMDMadCow]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 March 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

The Nova Cat absolutely is a Totem Mech. A totem mech does not need to look like the totem animal to be one, it needs to represent something core to the Clan. A mech NAMED AFTER THE CLAN it was DESIGNED TO INSPIRE AND FOCUS the members of is not a totem mech?


Maybe to you.  To every other living thing, it is.

Being named after a clan does not qualify it as a totem mech, just a mech with a spiffy name.
Tell me how it would emphasize a core value of the Nova Cats it oit were not named Nova Cat.
Cite me a canon source that states it as one.

Edited by SMDMadCow, 11 March 2014 - 11:45 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

A cursory examination of the interwebs rapidly brings up that this is an extremely convoluted issue. There are the tro biblethumpers who require TOTEM MECH in the rules description and then there is the general DEFINITION of a totem mech, that being "Totem BattleMechs represent a Clan or faction's spirit, concept or totem-animal on which they were founded." Note the "or" in there. Definition wise, looks alone do not make a totem mech.

Specifically to the Nova Cat, even its lore states it was designed as a totem mech, and checks off all the boxes in the definition with the possible exclusion of looks, to which even then it has cat like leg structure and a triangular cockpit array that brings a cat to mind.

So, do you cling to the TRO or to the lore? Depending on how you answer that dictates your answer as to the legitimacy of several totem mechs. My take? The PURPOSE AND DESIGN of the mech is clear. If anything, a lack of TOTEM MECH in the TRO is a blatant oversight by the writers. Common sense dictates it as such given the purpose behind the mech's very existence.

[SMDMadCow]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 March 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

A cursory examination of the interwebs rapidly brings up that this is an extremely convoluted issue. There are the tro biblethumpers who require TOTEM MECH in the rules description and then there is the general DEFINITION of a totem mech, that being "Totem BattleMechs represent a Clan or faction's spirit, concept or totem-animal on which they were founded." Note the "or" in there. Definition wise, looks alone do not make a totem mech.

Specifically to the Nova Cat, even its lore states it was designed as a totem mech, and checks off all the boxes in the definition with the possible exclusion of looks, to which even then it has cat like leg structure and a triangular cockpit array that brings a cat to mind.

So, do you cling to the TRO or to the lore? Depending on how you answer that dictates your answer as to the legitimacy of several totem mechs. My take? The PURPOSE AND DESIGN of the mech is clear. If anything, a lack of TOTEM MECH in the TRO is a blatant oversight by the writers. Common sense dictates it as such given the purpose behind the mech's very existence.

Going by that reasonng and the generalized broad definition, any mech ever made could qualify as a totem mech to the clan or house that manufactured it.

The TRO is only part of the lore, but generaly the best place to find mech specific information.

Again, I challenge you to cite a canon source validating the Nova Cat as a totem mech and I will recant my statement about it.

Edited by SMDMadCow, 11 March 2014 - 12:10 PM.

[RH7N0]

I happened across this, whether its canon or not I don't know so take it as you guys see fit : http://www.sarna.net...a_Cat_(OmniMech) . It does say that the Nova Cat is a totem mech though.

PS. Damn thing doesn't want to post right so check the Nova cat page on sarna.

Edited by RH7N0, 11 March 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Other than the mech's own related fluff peice that states it was designed as a totem mech? Or the simple but not at all insignificant fact that unlike most mechs out there it was distinctly named after the clan itself? What more could you want? Unfortunately I am at work, on a mobile device, and there is no way I can physically research all the avenues necessary to give you a page number entry of it. Given you seem to have the books in front of you, I suggest you read the lore description of the mech, dash in some critical thinking skills, and come up with your own conclusion.

I do, however, agree that there is a rash of totem mechs that cropped up seemingly all at once. Clan Nova Cat is equally guilty of it what with the Cave Lion.

[CyclonerM]

The Artic Wolf is a totem 'Mech, quiaff?

[SMDMadCow]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Other than the mech's own related fluff peice that states it was designed as a totem mech? Or the simple but not at all insignificant fact that unlike most mechs out there it was distinctly named after the clan itself? What more could you want? Unfortunately I am at work, on a mobile device, and there is no way I can physically research all the avenues necessary to give you a page number entry of it. Given you seem to have the books in front of you, I suggest you read the lore description of the mech, dash in some critical thinking skills, and come up with your own conclusion.

I do, however, agree that there is a rash of totem mechs that cropped up seemingly all at once. Clan Nova Cat is equally guilty of it what with the Cave Lion.

You assume wrong, I remember when the 3060 TRO when t first came out and got a copy of it that day and have been reading and re reading it for a while. What stands out is that the same TRO has the Mandrill and Fire Scorpion, both of which specifically stated to be Totem mechs. I figure id the Nova cat was intended to beo e it would be stated as so also, with it being in the same publication. I will double check when I get home, but it seems to me if the authors had wanted it referred as a totem mech, they would have called it one from the very beggining.

Edited by SMDMadCow, 11 March 2014 - 01:09 PM.

[SMDMadCow]

CyclonerM, on 11 March 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

The Artic Wolf is a totem 'Mech, quiaff?

Why would it be?

[Pariah Devalis]

Derogatory would be doing something with intent to anger or put down. Telling someone to use their common sense when examining a problem.is not, though if you choose to take it as a slight that is entirely on you. I understand that it is a god damned superpower, however, and therefore is uncommon. Would you have prefered I use the words "critical thinking skills" when faced with lore that says one thing , implies the same when not explicitly stated, but rules that seem to omit something? While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, in this case it seems remarkably fishy.

[Gyrok]

I would point out not every mech could be argued to be a totem mech.

Look at the Mad Dog...clearly not, as well as the executioner, warhawk, storm crow, nova, adder, kit fox, cougar, linebacker, conjurer, shadow cat, ice ferret, summoner, etc...

The Dire Wolf and Timber Wolf, could be argued to be totem mechs, though not specifically stated as such...

However, the Nova Cat, Kodiak, Ebon Jaguar, and many others were clearly intended to be such, even though some were not perhaps spelled out to be...BT lore is pretty murky on some points.

Edited by Gyrok, 11 March 2014 - 01:23 PM.