25 replies to this topic

[Voivode]

Alright,

The last two maps have been pretty decent. I mean, more than decent, they are the best maps released so far.

But, come on, lets not pretend that these maps aren't all the same thing.

A donut.

Cover around the edges, some sort of open area in the middle. Granted, Crimson makes the open center paritally bi-level, which is neat.

How about some maps that don't resemble a donut? Maps where one has cover the whole way through and not just up to the edge of an open center (or 'donut hole' if you will). Even shifting the open area to one side of the map would be more refreshing than another "open center" type map.

---end rant---

[CrashieJ]

I have a nagging feeling all these maps that are "mirrored" if you will, are part of a bigger plan that PGI has been throwing around their R&D for quite some time.

A long time ago somebody asked about "combined arms" gameplay featuring Tanks, infantry, jeeps, choppers and the like, PGI said "not at this time, but somewhere down the line".

so yeah if you look closely at certain maps... they look wide enough not just for mechs, but AI units.

if all goes right (or wrong) we might end up looking at a game mode like DoTA

[Roland]

I'd really like to see a map like "Big City" from MW4.

[Sephlock]

Voivode, on 11 March 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Alright,

The last two maps have been pretty decent. I mean, more than decent, they are the best maps released so far.

But, come on, lets not pretend that these maps aren't all the same thing.

A donut.

Cover around the edges, some sort of open area in the middle. Granted, Crimson makes the open center paritally bi-level, which is neat.

How about some maps that don't resemble a donut? Maps where one has cover the whole way through and not just up to the edge of an open center (or 'donut hole' if you will). Even shifting the open area to one side of the map would be more refreshing than another "open center" type map.

---end rant---

The last time we got a map like that, we ended up with Mordor. A donut surrounded by a maze. Be careful what you wish for.

[Sug]

gavilatius, on 11 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

if all goes right (or wrong) we might end up looking at a game mode like DoTA

Hold your breath.

[CrashieJ]

Sug, on 11 March 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Hold your breath.

It's either "hold your tounge"

or

"don't hold your breath"

unless you want MechDoTA Online to happen.

[Lukoi Banacek]

gavilatius, on 11 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

A long time ago somebody asked about "combined arms" gameplay featuring Tanks, infantry, jeeps, choppers and the like, PGI said "not at this time, but somewhere down the line".

Whoa! You got a source for this by chance. Last word I saw regarding this kind of stuff was "No, never."

[Asmudius Heng]

They have stated they make each map with 3 broad "lanes" - however with recent spawn point changes i wonder if that really applies anymore?

[TehSBGX]

gavilatius, on 11 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

if all goes right (or wrong) we might end up looking at a game mode like DoTA

It wouldn't happen, it would snap the player base in half worse than Ghost heat. Which for some one like me that hates dotalikes, is a pretty wonderful thing

[Odins Fist]

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Bryan has mentioned on his podcast that they will have, (at some point) "active" DropShips on the map. I would assume these will be on the first planet fall mission maps to capture any Planet.
He has also brought up the idea of being able to "call in" Ai controlled elements. Now if these are ground units that move to the location specified and fight there or a star of elementals that attack the specified Mech, nothing concrete. But the idea has been talked about.

I actually do like the idea of having "base defensive" Ai forces for when Attack/Defend mode arrives. Or as the Merc's are further brought "online" there ability to Upgrade a Base's defensives, hard structures as well as Ai elements.

- possibly ground units that patrol and watch specified areas.
- Elements that move forward and engage when the Base is under attack, tanks to battle positions.

Now they don't need to be OP elements but just another unit that the Enemy needs to think about during the Attack. The current turrets are working as they need to be, difficult to easily take out but not impossible. And they will kill you if you ignore them.

Now back on the OP's topic;
Yes, there are quite a few maps that are restricted in there current layout, mostly these were early maps and designed to get the Mech's into fighting early in the match. As the engine update is fine tuned and the graphics are refined we may start to see longer distance maps. Currently the draw distance has been extended on maps but the detail has not caught up. We can now "see" about 2000mtrs, but the detail drops. The higher the detail the more difficult it is on some systems, so PGI is in the trade off game now.

We really need more 6km x 6km maps, as CW will start soon, and company's of Mech's are rather difficult to hide for tactical movement. Some of the first maps did indeed have "extra" area's that could be enabled on these maps, forest colony is one. There is an entire lower map area, (around the river bend) that could be enabled, as you can see it in the map overlay on the smurfy site. But like all the maps there needs to be something that stops the Mech's from just leaving the main battle area and camping. And negating the spotting from one side of the map to the other, hence your "donut" description, because if they can see that far you are guarantied they will fire an arty at you.

I think the artists are getting better with the asymmetrical map designing as they produce more maps, as stated, crimson strait was a fresh design. Even frozen city in it's narrow "L" shape was interesting. (till the pop-tarting started) I would really enjoy some open maps, rolling hills, savannah style, or even the dangerous urban city maps, full on street fighting. Where lights and Mediums would have the advantage with speed.

Notice here:
Some of the map designers from MW:LL are reforming and working on new and original never released maps, I can't believe there can't be some coordinated discussions between these people and PGI on design techniques. It uses the same engine, different version but still same, now the art assets might be somewhat legally linked to that game but the map design tools are well used and I'm sure it would be a bonus of info if PGI approached these designers.

Just some thoughts,
9erRed

[zolop]

Agree entirely, please use the max amount of map space available when building a map. The space map (forget its name) is a rather boring map, as it only has a few avenues of flanking maneuver movement.. In HPG Manifold It would be interesting to go to different parts of the map (that are out of bounds, inside the 6kmx6km map) and see more chock point options so it could open up more tactical maneuvers on the map. I much rather play "CRIMSON STRAIT" map then all the other ones because it has different choke points and to hold the center is no as important, in fact it can be ambushed in most cases pretty well. Even Crimson Strait has out of bounds locations while inside the map, that instead could be used for Lance maneuvering. If we had just one game mode, like "King of the Hill" then the donut maps would make a lot more sense, but we have 3 different game mods and possibly more coming with CW that maps need to work for.

It would be really cool in the future to open up map development (with the tools) with the community and a way for the community to vote on a few (EG top 10 community maps). Then the dev team in charge of maps could go over them cutting the development time, including QA work for maps to much less that what they are now. But it that would only happen when cows fly...shame cause battletech has such a big fanbase of generations. Again cows will fly probably first before PGI opens that idea up to the community.

Edited by zolop, 11 March 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[Fooooo]

zolop, on 11 March 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

Agree entirely, please use the max amount of map space available when building a map. The space map (forget its name) is a rather boring map, as it only has a few avenues of flanking maneuver movement.. In HPG Manifold It would be interesting to go to different parts of the map (that are out of bounds, inside the 6kmx6km map) and see more chock point options so it could open up more tactical maneuvers on the map. I much rather play "CRIMSON STRAIT" map then all the other ones because it has different choke points and to hold the center is no as important, in fact it can be ambushed in most cases pretty well. Even Crimson Strait has out of bounds locations while inside the map, that instead could be used for Lance maneuvering. If we had just one game mode, like "King of the Hill" then the donut maps would make a lot more sense, but we have 3 different game mods and possibly more coming with CW that maps need to work for.

It would be really cool in the future to open up map development (with the tools) with the community and a way for the community to vote on a few (EG top 10 community maps). Then the dev team in charge of maps could go over them cutting the development time, including QA work for maps to much less that what they are now. But it that would only happen when cows fly...shame cause battletech has such a big fanbase of generations. Again cows will fly probably first before PGI opens that idea up to the community.

They sorta have to cover up the edges of the map for out of bounds............if they expanded the maps to do what you ask there would just be another out of bounds "safety net" further out yet again, and you will then be like

" Hey! there is even MORE terrain out here now, look how much more we could be using ! "

The point is there needs to be enough room to actually have an out of bounds area, and there also needs to be room to cover up the "nothing" that is outside of the terrain. (like using hills you cant climb around the entire edge of the map...which is the easiest way, plus if the OOB zone is large enough, you can make it look like "distant" hills etc etc...)


Still, what your really asking for (larger maps and also the OP's "no donut" or more "lanes" as pgi calls them) I agree with.

Edited by Fooooo, 12 March 2014 - 03:32 AM.

[Voivode]

9erRed, on 11 March 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Greetings all,

Bryan has mentioned on his podcast that they will have, (at some point) "active" DropShips on the map. I would assume these will be on the first planet fall mission maps to capture any Planet.
He has also brought up the idea of being able to "call in" Ai controlled elements. Now if these are ground units that move to the location specified and fight there or a star of elementals that attack the specified Mech, nothing concrete. But the idea has been talked about.

I actually do like the idea of having "base defensive" Ai forces for when Attack/Defend mode arrives. Or as the Merc's are further brought "online" there ability to Upgrade a Base's defensives, hard structures as well as Ai elements.

- possibly ground units that patrol and watch specified areas.
- Elements that move forward and engage when the Base is under attack, tanks to battle positions.

Now they don't need to be OP elements but just another unit that the Enemy needs to think about during the Attack. The current turrets are working as they need to be, difficult to easily take out but not impossible. And they will kill you if you ignore them.

Now back on the OP's topic;
Yes, there are quite a few maps that are restricted in there current layout, mostly these were early maps and designed to get the Mech's into fighting early in the match. As the engine update is fine tuned and the graphics are refined we may start to see longer distance maps. Currently the draw distance has been extended on maps but the detail has not caught up. We can now "see" about 2000mtrs, but the detail drops. The higher the detail the more difficult it is on some systems, so PGI is in the trade off game now.

We really need more 6km x 6km maps, as CW will start soon, and company's of Mech's are rather difficult to hide for tactical movement. Some of the first maps did indeed have "extra" area's that could be enabled on these maps, forest colony is one. There is an entire lower map area, (around the river bend) that could be enabled, as you can see it in the map overlay on the smurfy site. But like all the maps there needs to be something that stops the Mech's from just leaving the main battle area and camping. And negating the spotting from one side of the map to the other, hence your "donut" description, because if they can see that far you are guarantied they will fire an arty at you.

I think the artists are getting better with the asymmetrical map designing as they produce more maps, as stated, crimson strait was a fresh design. Even frozen city in it's narrow "L" shape was interesting. (till the pop-tarting started) I would really enjoy some open maps, rolling hills, savannah style, or even the dangerous urban city maps, full on street fighting. Where lights and Mediums would have the advantage with speed.

Notice here:
Some of the map designers from MW:LL are reforming and working on new and original never released maps, I can't believe there can't be some coordinated discussions between these people and PGI on design techniques. It uses the same engine, different version but still same, now the art assets might be somewhat legally linked to that game but the map design tools are well used and I'm sure it would be a bonus of info if PGI approached these designers.

Just some thoughts,
9erRed

Actually, I was less interested in larger, more open maps and more interested in maps with no central, open space. Like a river city where the water was replaced with more buildings. Hell, even go the reverse donut route and plop a giant blockade in the center so teams have to choose a direction around it.

That's what I want.

Straight urban map, no open spaces, tall buildings. Shut up and brawl.

A map with a mesa in the center that is too high for JJ mechs to ascend (except maybe a 12 JJ Spider 5V )

[Odins Fist]

9erRed, on 11 March 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Greetings all,

Bryan has mentioned on his podcast that they will have, (at some point) "active" DropShips on the map. I would assume these will be on the first planet fall mission maps to capture any Planet.

You mean when CW gets here... I mean "IF" it gets here.

Seriously, i'm curious of how it will turn out.

Edited by Odins Fist, 12 March 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Pygar]

Donut or not, I'd just love to see them do a Jungle/Swamp map...something with more foliage and water, lots of green.

[Voivode]

The rumor mill says the next map is a jungle map, so you could be in luck.

[TB Freelancer]

Yeah, that and maybe a little color!

Seriously, every map is kinda monochrome, be it green, tan, grey, grey, white....

[Joseph Mallan]

gavilatius, on 11 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

I have a nagging feeling all these maps that are "mirrored" if you will, are part of a bigger plan that PGI has been throwing around their R&D for quite some time.

A long time ago somebody asked about "combined arms" gameplay featuring Tanks, infantry, jeeps, choppers and the like, PGI said "not at this time, but somewhere down the line".

so yeah if you look closely at certain maps... they look wide enough not just for mechs, but AI units.

if all goes right (or wrong) we might end up looking at a game mode like DoTA

I call Foul!

The Phantom Lancer is Kimari Ronso from FFX. Copy right/trade mark infringement?

[Simbacca]

Asmudius Heng, on 11 March 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

They have stated they make each map with 3 broad "lanes" - however with recent spawn point changes i wonder if that really applies anymore?

I have to agree - especially to what happened to Alpine.