20 replies to this topic

[Enaris]

I've recently returned to MWO after going probably a year with few if any games. (You can thank the free Centurion for bringing me back.) As memory served, I bought my Trenchbucket, and then for various reasons drifted away within a matter of days.

With all of that said, I just thought that I'd share my own thoughts. They're mine, and I imagine a fair number will disagree. That's the nature of things.

Overall, I'm pleased with what I've seen since I got back. I know that during my absence, things have been exceedingly rocky in the community, and I certainly don't care to make light of what has many people upset. I certainly questioned and disagreed with many of things being done back then.

That said, just from coming back after this long of a break, I find myself having fun. In the end, that's the most important thing to me. The game is fun again. Maybe it's because I'm a bad enough player that I don't end up being victimized by the current meta (I'm sure that's quite true, quite honestly.) In fact, I'm still something of a dead weight on my low Elo teams. I can't even put a finger on what changes it's been. I do know that I've seen a huge decrease in FOTM builds (though maybe that's more common in high tiers.) Yes, the meta is still more than a bit light AC happy, and it can be hard to play a mech that's built for brawling (*snif* my 4MLas 2SRM6 Founders Cat...), but it seems much less lockstepped than it was a year ago.

Why am I taking the time to post this? Because it's easy on game forums to get buried in the negatives. I've seen it over in the land of tanks (where I've kept active). There are certainly things wrong, certainly things that need to be fixed. Yet, from stepping away, I've seen progress, and just a better, more polished game.

It's been a rocky road to get here, and there's certainly much more to be done, but the improvements mean I am back, for your pleasure in blasting into so much scrap.

As to those who have said that this game is incomplete until Community Warfare begins. I do look forward to those days, and I think that they will add a great deal to the game. That said, I think you dramatically overestimate those who are longing for that feature. As I said, I've been in the land of tanks for three years now, and quite frankly, Clan Wars is really just a small tail of that dog. I've never seen any numbers that have been released, but I'd guess that less than 5% of players are regularly involved in Clan Battles. It really is a niche. I expect CW to be much the same here. It will give a great deal to those who care to dive into it, but it's not going to be the end all and be all for the game. The vast majority of battles will continue to be PuGs. Many may not like that, but I do think that's what we'll see when CW finally lands.

Good luck, and good hunting. I'll be the guy you just killed when he did something stupid.

[Novakaine]

The PDF strikes again.

[Enaris]

PDF? One assumes you meant something like "Piranha Defense Force" or some other term meaning "brainless Piranha apologist".

First, I'd remind you that I've been gone a year. I hadn't purchased any more MC, and yes, I did buy the Phoenix mechs, and then left them entirely unplayed until the free Cent weekend. I may not have ranted and raved about how bad the game was, but in the end, I did vote with my feet. I found the game boring and unfulfilling at the time, and moved on. That hardly sounds like some brainless stooge who dotes on every word that comes out of Piranha.

So no, I'm not going to dive into the deepend of "this is awful, PGI should burn eternally for what a crap job they've done." I've come back, and I've had fun. That's my ultimate criteria, and I spoke up because there are two sides of every story. I think that PGI has gotten here the hard way, and I still think that their approach can be too much "let's throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" fairly often, but I've enjoyed my return, and several friends who returned with me have too.

[Sephlock]

A bit of a break does wonders. It does make you sad to see how much further you've fallen behind on the grind though .

[Enaris]

Sephlock, on 11 March 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

A bit of a break does wonders. It does make you sad to see how much further you've fallen behind on the grind though .

The grind I don't mind. The skill curve on the other hand....

[Lukoi Banacek]

Enaris, on 11 March 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

As to those who have said that this game is incomplete until Community Warfare begins. I do look forward to those days, and I think that they will add a great deal to the game. That said, I think you dramatically overestimate those who are longing for that feature. As I said, I've been in the land of tanks for three years now, and quite frankly, Clan Wars is really just a small tail of that dog. I've never seen any numbers that have been released, but I'd guess that less than 5% of players are regularly involved in Clan Battles. It really is a niche. I expect CW to be much the same here. It will give a great deal to those who care to dive into it, but it's not going to be the end all and be all for the game. The vast majority of battles will continue to be PuGs. Many may not like that, but I do think that's what we'll see when CW finally lands.

Why?

Because of WoT?

I think your post has alot of to offer, but I wager even PUGs will want to get involved with the overarching storyline CW might provide...many more so than the 5% you guess at. Plenty of MMO's/MMORPG's thrive with vast community warfare aspects and always have. Right now, there is none to speak of so it's purely a guessing game. But there are plenty of lonewolves who would love to drop into matches that have more meaning than simple loyalty points and c-bills.

We'll have to wait and see on that I suppose, but this is the one point in your thread I had to post about, simply because I think it's completely off-base. That being said, if the game is fun, CW will not make or break the game necessarily, but it will add incentives and longevity ime.

[Enaris]

Lukoi, on 11 March 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Why?

Because of WoT?

I think your post has alot of to offer, but I wager even PUGs will want to get involved with the overarching storyline CW might provide...many more so than the 5% you guess at. Plenty of MMO's/MMORPG's thrive with vast community warfare aspects and always have. Right now, there is none to speak of so it's purely a guessing game. But there are plenty of lonewolves who would love to drop into matches that have more meaning than simple loyalty points and c-bills.

We'll have to wait and see on that I suppose, but this is the one point in your thread I had to post about, simply because I think it's completely off-base. That being said, if the game is fun, CW will not make or break the game necessarily, but it will add incentives and longevity ime.

Maybe I'm misapplying my own experiences in WoT, but over there, the dedicated team play (Companies, Teams and Clan) are all well behind simple PuGs in terms of activity.

Maybe there's a way to make that kind of play more compelling herethan it's proven to be there (and WG certainly is not the ideal Dev House), and I'd certainly be all for that. It certainly adds more to the game to be in that kind of organized play.

I do think there's a few things that will tend to lead to high levels of PuG play:

1) It's far more casual friendly. You have enough time for just a battle or two before Big Bang Theory hits tv? (Or your lunch break ends, or whatever?), that's all about PuGging. Organized play is far more of a time sink, especially if you want to have anything remotely resembling success.
2) CW play will be the realm of the "elites" unless PGI is very careful. WoT is a very good cautionary metaphor here. If you aren't an 85+ percentile player? Don't even bother. There's a few clans that work the periphery of the CW map who take lower end (50-80 percentile) players, but even that's limited. The core of Clan Wars is built around the best players hammering one another in key provinces. There's a very high entry barrier. Now, it depends on how PGI does things, but the risk is here as well. Top 10% or stay home.
3) Is related to #1, but success in CW will require practice, communication and coordination. Hours in training matches before you even do a CW drop. Again, a high entry barrier.

[Threat Doc]

Enaris, on 11 March 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

...Community Warfare... That said, I think you dramatically overestimate those who are longing for that feature.

World of Tanks is two-dimensional, low-firepower, simple; this game is not. There's an aspect of warfare coming to MWO that I think a lot of people, even active in this community, are underestimating. Also, everyone knows World War II, it's boring, it's slow, it's old... MWO will not be if the devs manage to build the beast correctly.

Enaris, on 11 March 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Maybe I'm misapplying my own experiences in WoT, but over there, the dedicated team play (Companies, Teams and Clan) are all well behind simple PuGs in terms of activity.

It's that way a great deal here, as well... for now. However, again, I seriously believe that's going to change over time.

Quote

2) CW play will be the realm of the "elites" unless PGI is very careful. WoT is a very good cautionary metaphor here. If you aren't an 85+ percentile player? Don't even bother. There's a few clans that work the periphery of the CW map who take lower end (50-80 percentile) players, but even that's limited. The core of Clan Wars is built around the best players hammering one another in key provinces. There's a very high entry barrier. Now, it depends on how PGI does things, but the risk is here as well. Top 10% or stay home.

That's so sad, concerning World of Tanks. I don't believe you'll see that sort of thing, here.

Quote

3) Is related to #1, but success in CW will require practice, communication and coordination. Hours in training matches before you even do a CW drop. Again, a high entry barrier.

That's what beta and the current game are all about... I'm getting a lot of that. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's getting there, rapidly.

Everything else you said in your OP, I agree with. Welcome back.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Enaris, on 11 March 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Maybe I'm misapplying my own experiences in WoT, but over there, the dedicated team play (Companies, Teams and Clan) are all well behind simple PuGs in terms of activity.

Maybe there's a way to make that kind of play more compelling herethan it's proven to be there (and WG certainly is not the ideal Dev House), and I'd certainly be all for that. It certainly adds more to the game to be in that kind of organized play.

I do think there's a few things that will tend to lead to high levels of PuG play:

1) It's far more casual friendly. You have enough time for just a battle or two before Big Bang Theory hits tv? (Or your lunch break ends, or whatever?), that's all about PuGging. Organized play is far more of a time sink, especially if you want to have anything remotely resembling success.
2) CW play will be the realm of the "elites" unless PGI is very careful. WoT is a very good cautionary metaphor here. If you aren't an 85+ percentile player? Don't even bother. There's a few clans that work the periphery of the CW map who take lower end (50-80 percentile) players, but even that's limited. The core of Clan Wars is built around the best players hammering one another in key provinces. There's a very high entry barrier. Now, it depends on how PGI does things, but the risk is here as well. Top 10% or stay home.
3) Is related to #1, but success in CW will require practice, communication and coordination. Hours in training matches before you even do a CW drop. Again, a high entry barrier.

Had you played in an organization like NBT, which used the MW4:Mercs game as its basic platform, you would probably feel very differently.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but done right, pugs will be able to jump into CW just as readily as a match that means nothing. And you'll get no argument from me that WoT serves as a cautionary tale.

If PGI goes the e-sport route, I do no have expectations this game will last long anyway, but given a CW more reminiscent of an RvR concept, they can go a loooooong time.

[Spheroid]

Why would someone who barely played in a year invest in the Overlord package?

[Enaris]

Spheroid, on 11 March 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

Why would someone who barely played in a year invest in the Overlord package?

A few reasons. While I did drift away from the game, I did it with the idea that I'd look in again when it was further down the road. Second, as an old BT fan, the idea of having the Unseen frankly was a fairly big draw for me. So, maybe it was a hair irrational on my part, but it's what I did. *shrugs*.

I honestly had the plan to come back when the Phoenix mechs got inserted into the game, but I was just off doing other things when they did. That's the main thing. I didn't leave because I was angry or the like. I was just bored, and the urge to "play mechs" just hadn't hit me. I think worse for a game like this than the people who are filled with rage, are those that ask "what should I play tonight", and "mechs" never even enters their mind... which is where I was. Now, it's one of my first thoughts.

[Odins Fist]

Enaris, on 11 March 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

I've recently returned to MWO

How's the U.I.-2.0 taste to you..??

[Enaris]

Odins Fist, on 11 March 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

How's the U.I.-2.0 taste to you..??

Honestly, mixed bag. I certainly would have thought that they could do better. Overall, I'd consider it a bit of a step back, but not catastrophic. Hopefully, it is as useful to them in their work on the backend as they say.

[Novakaine]

Welcome back.

[Zerberus]

Welcome back. I look forward to killing you and /or killing somebody with you

Edited by Zerberus, 11 March 2014 - 07:29 PM.

[Alex Warden]

Enaris, on 11 March 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

As I said, I've been in the land of tanks for three years now, and quite frankly, Clan Wars is really just a small tail of that dog. I've never seen any numbers that have been released, but I'd guess that less than 5% of players are regularly involved in Clan Battles. It really is a niche.

that´s mostly because Clanwars in WoT are mostly dominated by it´s P2W mechanics (at least they were back when me and my entire clan left WoT after we´ve been desperately waiting for CW and got serverely dissappointed when it finally came up...) plus the whole thing is ...hm... not thought thru well enough... would be a long story to point out all it´s flaws

CW COULD engage alot more people if implemented the right way and i honestly hope that PGI ain´t copy/pasting WoT beyond the core design...

Edited by Alex Warden, 11 March 2014 - 11:17 PM.

[Turist0AT]

Yeah, thats kinda how it works.

You play any game. Get tired of it. Take a break, come back and its fun again. Playing the same game over and over again isnt fun for anyone.

No need to make a post about it because you aint telling us anything. Dont think i need to tell ppl this.

Edited by Turist0AT, 12 March 2014 - 12:36 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

First off, welcome back.


I have been playing this game still pretty consistently and I still have fun with it. You are right, the forums do contain a lot of negativity, but this is the thing...

I think everyone on here still enjoys the game and thinks it is fun, but they are frustrated with weapon balancing, lack of timely content, things being implemented into the game that the devs said they would leave out, etc...

Some of the complaining in the forum is just nitpicking and is purely subjective (you will never please everyone and each person has a strong opinion on how to fix something that is radically different from the next guy). Some of it is pointing out real problems and real flaws that may never get fixed. That frustrates a lot of people, and they need a place like the forum to vent that frustration.

I'm glad from an outside perspective (from a person who hasn't played in a while) that this game seems to be proceeding nicely and you find it fun and engaging.

I also still find the game fun, but I am also frustrated with the slow progression of content. I am getting bored, and that bums me out when it comes to a franchise I really like.



P.S. If you get that pic reference you are either awesome or just old like me LOL.

[Phashe]

I agree with the OP thoughts on CW.

And I really do not see it drawing in a noteable quantity of new players....if any.

[Zolaz]

Welcome back. See you again in a year when you get bored at the glacial development pace. Whenever I want to say something nice about PGI, I just remember that they have sold 3 mech packages (Founders, Phoenix, Clan) while promising Community Warfare. Multiple times the mantra of "CW in 90 days" was trotted out and then murdered. Either PGI is just plain bad at producing their product or they are actively misleading their consumer base for their own profit.

PGI is in it for the money. Just look at their actions. PGI's collective word means nothing when money comes into the equation.