69 replies to this topic

[Shaio]

It is genially accepted that Ballistic Weapons are the primary weapon system on most not all medium, heavy, and assault mech's dropping in matches. Mechs running ballistics as primary will often carry 4 to 7 tons of ammunition during a match. To date it has been my experience that even carrying that much ammo I rarely suffer a deadly ammo explosion resulting in a dead mech.

By reducing the health of ammo it will increase the risk of running a mech with exposed internals containing unspent ammunition, thus making other weapon system(e.g. Lasers, PPCs and Gauss) look more attractive and make case relevant.

So I ask you should carrying 6 or more ammunition critical locations on a Battle Mech put you at high risk of an ammo explosion?

I Say Yes.

[DocBach]

the good majority of times I blow a leg off a 'Mech, the resulting chain reaction of ammo cooking off kills them.

[Shaio]

I am not saying death by ammo explosions do not happen, I am saying that when you pilot a walking bomb you should blow-up more often then not(not every time just more risk then there currently is).

Case in point(no pun intended) there are rarely any custom mech builds in this game that use case.

Edited by Shaio, 12 March 2014 - 05:24 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

If you do this, then at least make CASE protect torso sections from exploding ammo in the limbs. As is, there's no reason to run CASE in an XL mech, as cooked off ammo will kill you regardless of where it's placed.

[cSand]

Kaeb Odellas, on 12 March 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

If you do this, then at least make CASE protect torso sections from exploding ammo in the limbs. As is, there's no reason to run CASE in an XL mech, as cooked off ammo will kill you regardless of where it's placed.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but if you put a CASE in your arm that has ammo, isn't that what it does?

[Lukoi Banacek]

CASE only goes in the torsos.

DocBach, on 12 March 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

the good majority of times I blow a leg off a 'Mech, the resulting chain reaction of ammo cooking off kills them.

I too aim for legs on obvious boats for this very reason. Ammo-kills aplenty.

[Lightfoot]

I get killed by ammo explosions all the time. For some reason CASE doesn't work correctly in MWO so the sure way to die from ammo explosions is putting CASE in a side torso with Ammo. That way when it blows up it takes out your adjacent ST Engine.

I think it's got a fairly realistic chance to explode now once the armor is gone. Realistic is what MWO should be.

[Lyoto Machida]

I never run CASE and ammo explosions are still pretty rare.

Also, does anyone know why they took away the awesome sounds/animations from ammo explosions in Closed Beta???

[Kaeb Odellas]

cSand, on 12 March 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but if you put a CASE in your arm that has ammo, isn't that what it does?

Nope. Go ahead and try it.

(Hint: You can't!)

[Zerberus]

cSand, on 12 March 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but if you put a CASE in your arm that has ammo, isn't that what it does?

You cannot mount an IS C.A.S.E. in an arm, leg, or head. Only Clan C.A.S.E. (which is automatically included with every ammo bin by default for no weight or crit cost) can be mounted there.

Edited by Zerberus, 12 March 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Damocles]

Lyoto Machida, on 12 March 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

Also, does anyone know why they took away the awesome sounds/animations from ammo explosions in Closed Beta??

Mang, I miss those old SFX.

[Sephlock]

Shaio, on 12 March 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

I am not saying death by ammo explosions do not happen, I am saying that when you pilot a walking bomb you should blow-up more often then not(not every time just more risk then there currently is).

Case in point(no pun intended) there are rarely any custom mech builds in this game that use case.

That will change once Clan mechs come into play .

[Sug]

Uh how about instead of less HP we give ammo a chance to explode when destroyed greater than 10%?

[MustrumRidcully]

Sug, on 12 March 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Uh how about instead of less HP we give ammo a chance to explode when destroyed greater than 10%?

Yes. I am for a 100 % explosion chance, but I would lower the damage considerably in turn. Let each ammo bin explode for 10-20 damage (scaled down by the amount of ammo still left) each, but with a 100 % chance.

You don't neccessarily have a mech to be utterly destried by ammo explosions to make them threatening. 10 points of extra damage on 10 point of damage inflicted is pretty good. You might not often get a wild run-off explosion effect, but it will hurt the target a lot.

CASE could get an additional benefit (so that more people bother with it) in lowering ammo explosion damage overall (say, halving it).

[Monkey Lover]

Somehow I die more from gauss explosions than I do ac ammo.I still dont know if I trust the view on its the weapon and not the ammo.

[TELEFORCE]

I'm up for more ammo explosions. From my tabletop experience, they were the most frequent cause of destruction of 'mechs. I think it could also balance ballistic and missile-heavy 'mechs better.

[OneEyed Jack]

Lightfoot, on 12 March 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

I get killed by ammo explosions all the time. For some reason CASE doesn't work correctly in MWO so the sure way to die from ammo explosions is putting CASE in a side torso with Ammo. That way when it blows up it takes out your adjacent ST Engine.

I think it's got a fairly realistic chance to explode now once the armor is gone. Realistic is what MWO should be.

CASE works exactly the way it's supposed to. It doesn't protect the location it's mounted in, and it's not intended to. It only keeps the explosion from transferring damage inward.

[Magna Canus]

Ammo explosions work pretty well as they are right now (see below). Changes would be interesting were the system the same for all mechs, but with the comming of Clan Mechs which have free CASE in EVERY LOCATION where ammo is stored, I think some people are going to be very happy that ammo explosions work the way they do now instead of becomming more deadly.

Why? For one Clans get CASE free anywhere they place ammo. CASE prevents damage from moving beyond the location where installed, so since Clan Mechs can have CASE in their legs and arms, which an IS mech cant, they can mitigate damage much more effectively. A leg containing 2 tons or LRM ammo is sure to destroy a Clan mechs leg, but the damage will not travel into the ST (as I currently understand it). So, if you make ammo explosions worse, the actual effect a Clan mech is suffering compared to what an IS mech does increases exponentially. Combine that with Clan XL engines which require that you destroy both ST or the CT to destroy it and you have an even bigger problem.

Currently any increase in mech fatality due to ammo explosion directly translates into the mortality of IS mechs compared to Clan mechs. Since I want to fight for House Davion and the IS I have to disagree with the OP.

******************************************************************************************************************
Ammunition and Gauss Rifles can both explode if destroyed by a Critical Hit. Ammunition can also explode if cooked off in a 'Mech that overheats. This is even more likely to happen if the 'Mech's automatic shutdown sequence is overridden. Gauss Rifle ammunition, unlike the weapon itself, is inert. It will not explode if destroyed nor will it cook off.
When ammunition is destroyed, it applies all the remaining potential damage of the ammunition to the location it is stored in. For example, Long Range Missile rounds each do 1.0 point of damage. If 1 ton, or 180 rounds, is stored in the left leg of a Catapult and they are destroyed by a critical hit, 180 points of damage are applied to that leg. Since the armor of a location must first be removed to do damage to internal structure, the 180 points of damage is dealt to the leg itself. The leg of a Catapult has 30 hit points. In this case, the leg is destroyed and the remaining 120 points of damage is applied to the left torso. This remaining damage is reduced by 50% when transferring from one location to another. The 60 points of damage is then applied to the internal structure of the side torso. An Catapult's side torso has 30 hit points. In this case, the side torso is also destroyed leaving 30 points left over. When halved, 15 points are then applied to the center torso which has 42 hit points with 27 hit points remaining. ^[3][4]
CASE prevents internal explosions from traveling past the side torso it is installed in. In the above example, it would prevent the 15 points of damage from being applied to the internal structure of the center torso.
XL Engines

CASE prevents damage from traveling to the center torso by containing the damage within the side torso itself. While this prevent the center torso from taking internal damage, the side torso is destroyed. When the side torso of a 'Mech with an XL Engine installed is destroyed, the engine itself is also destroyed and the 'Mech disabled with it. Currently, there is no benefit in installed CASE onto 'Mechs with XL Engines.

[B1zmark]

Last time i checked, CASE still didn't work... has this been ninja-patched?

[Joseph Mallan]

DocBach, on 12 March 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

the good majority of times I blow a leg off a 'Mech, the resulting chain reaction of ammo cooking off kills them.

Dude 140(ish) damage per ton of ammo. All internal. By the time that gets done with a Mechs internals you should only be left with a floating Mech Head!