49 replies to this topic

[Iink]

I've played a few matches lately that (ab)use the Artillery and Air Strike modules. Most of them lead to my cockpit blowing out and destroying me early on in the match. Two of the times I was piloting a Jenner, and given the speed of said Jenner, it's hard to hit the cockpit anyway, so it wasn't much of a big deal. But when I was piloting an Atlas, it seems rather unfair that I am unable to move away from the strikes before they hit, and all of a sudden I am dead because of two consecutive module strikes to my 'Mech.

It seems like the damage distribution of the modules is uneven to me. Getting hit by one I can understand doing damage, but enough to rid my cockpit of armor and turn it red after one, and later knock out a 'Mech as early as two minutes into the match after two? Highly unfair in my point of view.

EDIT: ADDED YOUTUBE VIDEO LINK:

http://youtu.be/EAASS_yLFdE

Edited by Link2262, 17 March 2014 - 09:49 AM.

[aniviron]

It would be one thing if they required tons, critical space, or both, but 400 damage for no heat, no weight, no max range and no crits is too much. There is not a single module that is better than arty. No matter what loadout you're running, artillery strike is the best module available, whether you're a scout, sniper, or skirmisher. In the 12-player queue, every single player has artillery, airstrikes, or both.

At this point it's much like the PPC was about 10 months ago; it's so good that there's never any reason not to take it, provided your objective is to win. Something that deals assaults ~20% of their damage and outright kills lights assuming you drop it behind the oilrig where they can't see it for no crits, no heat, and no weight is too good.

[FupDup]

STEEL REHN.

[Deathlike]

The bigger disparity IMO is with non-JJ mechs vs JJ-mechs. If you even know smoke is in the vicinity, you could kinda JJ some of the damage (mostly direct it towards the legs when the projectiles hit the surface). Non-JJ mechs get the bulk of the damage just for showing up in the worst case.

I've kinda given up the fight, so when it comes time for 12-mans or CW... there's nothing to whine about. I just hope PGI runs a 12-man, so I get the "opportunity" to show them the "new meta"...

[Khobai]

I dont mind having strong artillery/airstrikes.

The problem is theyre outright better than the other modules and theres no reason to use other modules instead.

Essentially module slots have become "artillery slots" and thats obviously not balance. No consumable/module should be so good that you always take it to the exclusion of all other options.

[DarkDevilDancer]

One or two strikes wouldn't be so bad but some matches that's all you have endless clouds of red smoke, and they need to fix it so arty strikes no longer headshot you.

[Monkey Lover]

What is your plan to nerf them ? They were never used until they increased the dmg. If you do much to them I will stop using them. As of now I only get maybe 1 kill out for 15 uses.

So when the problem a head shots with strikes I wonder if you use a command console?

Heck I would like to see more headshots from strikes so maybe one person might use it lol

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 March 2014 - 06:28 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

The bigger disparity IMO is with non-JJ mechs vs JJ-mechs. If you even know smoke is in the vicinity, you could kinda JJ some of the damage (mostly direct it towards the legs when the projectiles hit the surface). Non-JJ mechs get the bulk of the damage just for showing up in the worst case.

I've kinda given up the fight, so when it comes time for 12-mans or CW... there's nothing to whine about. I just hope PGI runs a 12-man, so I get the "opportunity" to show them the "new meta"...

Very true, Strikes are VERY annoying in my non-JJ mediums.

[Iink]

Monkey Lover, on 15 March 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

What is your plan to nerf them ? They were never used until they increased the dmg. If you do much to them I will stop using them. As of now I only get maybe 1 kill out for 15 uses.

So when the problem a head shots with strikes I wonder if you use a command console?

Heck I would like to see more headshots from strikes so maybe one person might use it lol

My plan wouldn't be to nerf them back down to what they were, but I think a more proportionate distribution of damage is in order. Something that has a cap of only 18 armor points on any 'Mech should not be the most damaged from something that the attacker only has to point to a spot on the ground with. It doesn't seem fair that if an Atlas, that weighs 100 tons and has half of that dedicated to protecting itself, should be destroyed by two oddly precise strikes on the same spot. I think that it should be meant more as a means of weakening 'Mechs or simple defense rather than something that can obliterate the game's heaviest 'Mech in less than two minutes.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Nerf them back to old values, but make them non-consumable with a high cooldown so you could use them 2-3 times a match.

[Daekar]

I'm not sure they should be nerfed. I don't use them because I am under the impression that they don't net-gain Chills and I need the cash, but they do annoy me. However, they serve to break up deathball clumps or stagnant battle lines, which is important. I think a max range should be instituted though - either that or TAG should have no max range. Painting for an arty or airstrike is no different than painting for LRMs.

[Mystere]

Artillery is supposed to hurt you really badly, with a chance to kill you outright. That is what they were designed to do ever since this warlike species called humanity invented them.

Let's take a modern day M795 artillery shell. What would happen if that 47kg projectile, 11kg of which is TNT, scores a direct hit at high velocity on anything the size and weight of a mech? Wouldn't that anything be obliterated?

See what happens to an Israeli Centurion tank (52 tons) 17 seconds into this video:

Edited by Mystere, 15 March 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Artillery is supposed to hurt you really badly, with a chance to kill you outright. That is what they were designed to do ever since this warlike species called humanity invented them.

Possibly. But damage isnt why artillery is unbalanced. Artillery is unbalanced because its outright better than every other module. Its okay to have strong artillery, but it needs to cost what its worth. Artillery should use 2 module slots because its way better than any module that only uses 1 module slot.

Here's how artillery SHOULD work:
1) if you only equip the artillery module, it should only do 20 damage (1 module slot)
2) if you equip the artillery accuracy module, the spread is reduced by 20%, and the damage is doubled to 40 (artillery + artillery accuracy = 2 module slots)

So you could use a weaker artillery for 1 module slot or a stronger artillery for 2 module slots. That brings artillery back into parity with the other modules. The artillery accuracy module should also be renamed to something else, like improved artillery module, since it doubles damage in addition to reducing spread.

Edited by Khobai, 15 March 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 15 March 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Possibly. But damage isnt why artillery is unbalanced.

Artillery is unbalanced because its outright better than every other module.

Its okay to have strong artillery, but it needs to cost what its worth. Artillery should use 2 module slots because its way better than any module that only uses 1 module slot.

Actually... I like this idea! damage dealing Modules should use two slots each... Cool!

[Mcgral18]

Monkey Lover, on 15 March 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

What is your plan to nerf them ? They were never used until they increased the dmg. If you do much to them I will stop using them. As of now I only get maybe 1 kill out for 15 uses.

So when the problem a head shots with strikes I wonder if you use a command console?

Heck I would like to see more headshots from strikes so maybe one person might use it lol

Half damage, double the shells. Impossible to one hit the cockpit, more chances to hit something, same damage potential.

Also, increase cooldown to 15 or 20 seconds.

Edited by Mcgral18, 15 March 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[Namerof]

If anything, the problem with arty isn't how strong it is, it's the fact that it can be spammed. All they need to do is reduce the rate at which is can be called in, and the game would be good to go (in this department). Further, if they did something like make arty a single hit detection that's either a yes/no event, and then simply apply 10 points of damage to every region of the mech except the head, it would make arty stronger from a total damage sense, but weaker in that it's not going to outright pop anyone right off the bat. This, coupled with an increased cooldown on arty/CAS to 2-3 minutes would solve every problem currently associated with the module, as well as increase its TACTICAL application--which is where the emphasis should be anyway.

[Khobai]

Quote

All they need to do is reduce the rate at which is can be called in

Easier said than done. You have 12 players on a team. Average game time is 6-8 minutes. So if you want everyone to be able to use both their artillery and airstrike, the longest possible cooldown is ~20 seconds. So you really cant increase the global cooldown much more than what its already at.

A better solution IMO is to make artillery cost what its worth so not everyone will use it.

Make 20 damage artillery/airstrike cost 1 module slot (artillery/airstrike mod has base damage of 20)
Make 40 damage artillery/airstrike cost 2 module slots (artillery/airstrike mod + artillery/airstrike accuracy mod which doubles the base damage from 20 to 40)

So not only does this make artillery/airstrike cost what theyre worth but it also makes taking both artillery and airstrike at the same time is less desirable to do. Which means less spamming (because having both a strong artillery and strong airstrike would take up 4 module slots).

Edited by Khobai, 15 March 2014 - 08:26 AM.

[Namerof]

Khobai, on 15 March 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

Easier said than done. You have 12 players on a team. Average game time is 6-8 minutes. So if you want everyone to be able to use both their artillery and airstrike, the longest possible cooldown is ~20 seconds. So you really cant increase the global cooldown much more than what its already at.

A better solution IMO is to make artillery cost what its worth so not everyone will use it.

Make 20 damage artillery/airstrike cost 1 module slot (artillery/airstrike mod has base damage of 20)
Make 40 damage artillery/airstrike cost 2 module slots (artillery/airstrike mod + artillery/airstrike accuracy mod which doubles the base damage from 20 to 40)

So not only does this make artillery/airstrike cost what theyre worth but it also makes taking both artillery and airstrike at the same time is less desirable to do. Which means less spamming (because having both a strong artillery and strong airstrike would take up 4 module slots).

No. Sorry, but I feel no need to entitle everyone to use all their arty every match. That's precisely what's causing the issue. As a result, if you want to be the person to use arty in the best fashion possible, you have to be willing to get into the position to do so, and make it worthwhile to do so, ASAP. Additionally, it will make the module MORE valuable due to the fact that everyone using it will know that it's better to wait for those game changing moments to use it, rather than dumping it on a legged light for the luls.

[Khobai]

Quote

No. Sorry, but I feel no need to entitle everyone to use all their arty every match.

I disagree. If you spend a module slot on it you should be guaranteed to be able to use it. Paying the cost and not getting the benefit would just be stupid.

[TB Freelancer]

Meh...just nerf it back to pre-buff rates, then make the accuracy module bring damage up to current damage rates. Players could use the weaker version as a psychological tool that almost never kills a damned thing, but if they add the accuracy module they get the current damage also in a tighter cluster making it a little more dangerous that it is now, if properly placed.