263 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

R Razor, on 18 March 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Then perhaps the solution is to move competitive players to their own server and let them min-max themselves to their hearts content instead of subjecting those of us that want a Battletech Simulation to the asinine garbage builds that the e-peen measuring competitive players can't live without. Just a thought.

You don't understand All of what competitive is then. See full definition #2. You don't have to be a winner to be competitive. You just have to have the fire to not give up.

[Mawai]

Mystere, on 18 March 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

<citation needed>

"20:15 Russ points out that clan mechs shouldn't impact pug play in any major ways. Omnimechs will ideally be no better than our frankenmechs. You can't segregate clan and inner sphere mechs in public matches. Just like what we have now: faction specific mechs being played by members of all factions, one big free for all mix up. It'll be the same with Omnimechs as with every other mech. In private matches, anything goes. "

"24:25 Russ confirms mixed Omni and Frankenmechs mixed on the same team in pug drops."

http://mwomercs.com/...-2-aired-32014/

Finally, Russ does mention faction warfare but there is no timeline:

"22:30In FACTION play, Piranha will create the rules. That's where you're faction will mean something. Clanners will have to be clanners, and use clan mechs and IS will use IS mechs and “get involved in those battles and situations of rules and roleplay.” [And us mercs? Black Market? Omnimech factories on Outreach? Come on, spill it, Russ! -Peiper]"

Edited by Mawai, 21 March 2014 - 04:02 AM.

[Artgathan]

Tycho von Gagern, on 19 March 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Yeah, I hate to cut in, but I just have to say that putting an "=" in doesn't make your statement a deductive causal. It's not as 'math' as you want it to be.

The fact is that right now, most players can run whatever they want, without constraint, which is why class-wise we find fewer permutations on the field. Tonnage/class limits have been a part of Battletech since TT. They should have been a part of this game from the beginning. You agree on a tonnage, you field your mechs. (Then you spend the rest of the night rolling dice and erasing/ marking-in little circles on pieces of paper... compared to that, maybe that's why I think MWO is all right. But I digress...)

"You bring whatever and I'll bring whatever," said no one ever at the beginning of a Battletech tournament. Everyone would just bring the biggest, best-equipped mechs possible, and for all the "freedom of choice," there would be a surprising lack of variety.

Gee, kind of sounds like what's going on now...

I believe the argument that they are trying to make (more constraints = fewer permutations) is based on the assumption that one day all mechs will be useful in play (IE: balanced). If mechs were naturally balanced against each other you'd see more variety in an "unrestricted" (the drops we have now) than in a "restrcited" (3/3/3/3) environment.

Right now the mechs are not well balanced, which means 3/3/3/3 translates to: Sort of Useful (Lights) / Cannon-Fodder (Mediums) / Cataphracts (Heavies) / Gods of the Battlefield (Assaults). This will remain true until some balancing is done between the weight classes. Simply forcing each team to bring 3 of a kind does not inherently make the game "more balanced".

Also, can you imagine the queue times when a new mech gets released? It's going to create a crazy bottleneck in the MM and lots of people are going to get upset very fast when they can't play with their shiny new toy because they're spending 5 minutes between each match searching.

[That Dawg]

Threads like these...I see about 20% jerks, 20% mindless fanbois and 50-60% solid, good, seemingly viable solutions......and there it dies on the vine....

going to run a troll LRM100 stalker with tiny engine, no armor and STILL make a decent income before dying stupidly 5 minutes into the game crippling my use to the remaining team.
....how. is. that. even. possible. to. do.

[I R O N]

Kyle Wright, on 17 March 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Hey guys,

I know there are a few people that are super happy about 3,3,3,3 as they hope it will limit matches with heavy assaults poptarting. The thing is it may limit the amount of assaults, but you are still going to have issues with jump sniping. 3,3,3,3 just equates to 3 Highlanders, 3 Cataphract-3Ds, 3 Shadowhawks, 3 Jenners or Ravens... All with ERLL, PPC, Gauss, or Ac10.

Not to mention by implementing 3,3,3,3 you are taking away players free choice to play whatever they want in whatever setting. Instead you are shoehorning people into conforming to a set drop setup.

The logical thing to do would be to have Mechs with a general Battle Value (BV) then as weapons and engines are switched the BV would change. Then you set a overall limit on 12-mans with some # overall BV. Now if a team is able to field 8 assaults with in that constraints well good for them, now they might not be the best setup, but by gollie they got them in there. All the while the opposing team ran more balance through the weight classes and has a higher quality mech across the board.

Furthermore you could easily influence the meta of the game by making unused weapons lower in BV such as things like LRMS, LPLs, small lasers, etc while giving PPCs, Ac20s, Guass, ERLLs a higher BV. So if you want to have the bells and whistles you will pay for it, or if you run more modest builds you can have possible higher tonnage across the board.


-K. Wright (HHoD)

Cry More, You can't phase out a Playstyle from a game. That's selfish and ignorant.

[Mavairo]

All of this LRM QQN, kind of puts the new LRMs into perspective with this 3/3/3/3 implementation doesn't it?

[I R O N]

Mavairo, on 23 March 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

All of this LRM QQN, kind of puts the new LRMs into perspective with this 3/3/3/3 implementation doesn't it?

yep. Only 1-6 mechs that can even take lrms. not 1-12. what a great idea. Force people to play something other then an Assault or Heavy mech.

[Mavairo]

Irontygr, on 23 March 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

yep. Only 1-6 mechs that can even take lrms. not 1-12. what a great idea. Force people to play something other then an Assault or Heavy mech.

For those of us that are veterans to pvp teams in MMORPGs "forcing" people to play a diff class isn't anything new. Roll deep in almost any mmo pvp without a healer, see how long that gets you against teams with em!

Honestly forcing medium play is about the only way we will ever see them on the field in serious numbers. It'll also slow down damage output over all. (Which is why I recently bought some Centurions and will have some Cicadas..again soon)

Even more honestly I don't feel this 3/3/3/3 is going quite far enough. I think there should be a hard set Tonnage Limit on all drops.

Edited by Mavairo, 23 March 2014 - 01:38 PM.

[R Razor]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 March 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

You don't understand All of what competitive is then. See full definition #2. You don't have to be a winner to be competitive. You just have to have the fire to not give up.

That may be the Websters definition, but you are either intentionally or unintentionally failing to take the meaning in the CONTEXT it was used...........I was quite obviously speaking of the so called "competitive" players that run nothing but min-max setups on all of their mechs and that measure the value of the life they lead by how many kills they can achieve in this game.

[UiA]

I'd prefer a hard tonnage limit as I think we would see more diversity in drops. But still the 3/3/3/3 will at least prevent matches like this :



310 ton difference should not be happening.

[wanderer]

There's a middle line between 3/3/3/3 and lolrandomderp MM that we have now. We don't need set weight limits or set weight classes.

Just make sure that the MM puts the same numbers on each team. Is that tough? Really? Someone goes in with a medium, he knows the other side has one too. Or a light. Or a heavy. Or an assault. You SHOULD cut it a bit finer than L/M/H/A, honestly (gee, look at my sig link!) - but that's what you need. ELO without filters results in the derpy chaos we have now. 3/3/3/3 will be so non-chaotic as to cause stagnancy, and it stinks of a "least effort, least thought" solution, which is what got us this gem of a current MM in the first place.

Find the center ground.

[Wanzer MkII]

FupDup, on 17 March 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Tonnage Limits, 3/3/3/3, Tiers, Battlevalue....


Why not just have Role Warfare? Why not have maps larger than shoe boxes, so that mobility and scouting are much more important? Why not restructure rewards so that shooting everything that moves isn't the only reliable way to make some cash? Why not give each class (or possibly even chassis, if we're ambitious enough) their own unique XP tree, instead of giving every single mech the same copy-paste that reduces the weaknesses of mechs that shouldn't really be maneuverable (notice how most of the XP tree unlocks are based on making your mech more agile?)? Why not have every class able to be equally valuable contributors to their team, while having vastly different (but complementing) strengths and weaknesses?

...But we can't have that, because PGI prefers their "top tier avatar" system. They want to clearly outline which mechs they want to be the best in the game and which mechs they want to shine the shoes of the top dogs.

THIS, SO MUCH THIS!

Every issue with in this game stems from the failure of this idea. This game needs huge, sprawling maps with multiple objectives. What we got was Counter Strike with mechs.

Tonnage limits and the likes are all just attempts to fix the symptoms, instead of going after the disease.

[I R O N]

Mavairo, on 23 March 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

For those of us that are veterans to pvp teams in MMORPGs "forcing" people to play a diff class isn't anything new. Roll deep in almost any mmo pvp without a healer, see how long that gets you against teams with em!

Honestly forcing medium play is about the only way we will ever see them on the field in serious numbers. It'll also slow down damage output over all. (Which is why I recently bought some Centurions and will have some Cicadas..again soon)

Even more honestly I don't feel this 3/3/3/3 is going quite far enough. I think there should be a hard set Tonnage Limit on all drops.

So, you're basicly admiting you are a one trick pony?

[Mavairo]

Irontygr, on 23 March 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

So, you're basicly admiting you are a one trick pony?

How do you figure that?
I've got quite the range of skills actually.
I'm alll for more mech diversity. But I don't think 3/3/3/3 is going to quite get us there the way PGI hopes.

That just encourages something similar to what we had in CB. Remember the last implementation of Weight Classes? Everyone simply took the heaviest mech in each category. I don't see that changing anytime soon either. Especially since Turrets are in the game now because the whiners/braindead community whined about "capwarrior!", because they were too stupid and inept to defend their own bases as the speedier teams capped them out rather than play deathball 24/7.

Also, in other games? I play healer, CC, or DPS. And usually have at least one of each.

Edited by Mavairo, 23 March 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[Kyle Wright]

Irontygr, on 23 March 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Cry More, You can't phase out a Playstyle from a game. That's selfish and ignorant.

Wow dude... really your a real winner. Your mommy must be so proud.

Edited by Kyle Wright, 24 March 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[Chemie]

wanderer, on 23 March 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

There's a middle line between 3/3/3/3 and lolrandomderp MM that we have now. We don't need set weight limits or set weight classes.

Just make sure that the MM puts the same numbers on each team. Is that tough? Really? Someone goes in with a medium, he knows the other side has one too. Or a light. Or a heavy. Or an assault. You SHOULD cut it a bit finer than L/M/H/A, honestly (gee, look at my sig link!) - but that's what you need. ELO without filters results in the derpy chaos we have now. 3/3/3/3 will be so non-chaotic as to cause stagnancy, and it stinks of a "least effort, least thought" solution, which is what got us this gem of a current MM in the first place.

Find the center ground.

wait, didn't we have this before already? PGI can't go back to something that worked, They killed that option because ELO was going to balance everything and there have been disproportionate number unbalanced teams since.

What happens if the community does not drop in even distribution...and there is no queue counter showing a huge number of assaults waiting for their turn....failed to find match....failed to find match....or the MM opens things up and essentially does not use ELO to match anymore....why not go back to match weight class then?

[I R O N]

Mavairo, on 23 March 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

How do you figure that?
I've got quite the range of skills actually.
I'm alll for more mech diversity. But I don't think 3/3/3/3 is going to quite get us there the way PGI hopes.

That just encourages something similar to what we had in CB. Remember the last implementation of Weight Classes? Everyone simply took the heaviest mech in each category. I don't see that changing anytime soon either. Especially since Turrets are in the game now because the whiners/braindead community whined about "capwarrior!", because they were too stupid and inept to defend their own bases as the speedier teams capped them out rather than play deathball 24/7.

Also, in other games? I play healer, CC, or DPS. And usually have at least one of each.

^ admits to playing RPGMMO's... already stopped listening.. to him. go Larp or something dude..

Kyle Wright, on 24 March 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Wow dude... really your a real winner. Your mommy must be so proud.

Leave mom out of this, I told your mom last night that i wouldn't mention anything.

[I R O N]

The fact remains, Lights and mediums are borderline useless as a class. Only way to win with them is in ECM or AC/PPC/ERLL w/JJs. 3/3/3/3 is what was intended from the beginning. You tards are whining about an incomplete part of the game that all of you were spoiled and used to playing. MEANWHILE i have been playing the new meta to come. ER Large Spiders

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

But why this 3/3/3/3? It's so far away from everything CBT is. Lances are played in four and best preperation for this would be to increase the amount of mechs per side to 16 and come with 4/4/4/4.

Has this been tested Jet or dont the Servers Support it? I know that there would be Problems on the smaller maps like river City etc. but i like the idea. As for the Tonnage Limit they could use a Class mid range Tonnage x4 to Limit the Lances itself. For example 90t is mid range Tonnage for assaults quadrupled you get a 350t max Tonnage. (260t for heavies, 180t for mediums and a total max of 120t for lights)

This would prevent 4 Atlaii in a mach and bring a variety of mechs to the battlefield.

Posted the next idea somewhere else, dunno. But as for the clan Invasion this would open the doors to Clan Star battles (5 Mechs) and IS against Clan could be 16 vs 15 as i hope for Clan Mechs to be slightly better then IS.

[Nightfire]

Irontygr, on 27 March 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

^ admits to playing RPGMMO's... already stopped listening.. to him. go Larp or something dude..

RichAC! Is that you!?