25 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

HI PGI,

This doesn't seem correct for lights and other mechs to risk themselves and it doesn't even count as a hit.

Quick fix.. I believe Assist is damage based.
Make NARC hit do 0.01 damage !
Problem solved.. NARC hit count as assist !

[Bayamon]

This !

[Ironwithin]

I haven't used NARC yet, do you get a reward for narc'ing someone ?
If so why give it more of a reward ?
The same would need to apply to the TAG laser, you don't get a kill assist for just tag'ing someone.

If there is no reward then there is clearly something wrong.

[ShinVector]

Ironwithin, on 19 March 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

I haven't used NARC yet, do you get a reward for narc'ing someone ?
If so why give it more of a reward ?
The same would need to apply to the TAG laser, you don't get a kill assist for just tag'ing someone.

If there is no reward then there is clearly something wrong.

Because NARC is a heavy POC it uses ammo ?

Oh by the WAY... You do NOT get TAG/NARC bonus for just NARCing someone !
Apparently your team mate must hit the person you NARCed for you to get the reward.

Edited by ShinVector, 19 March 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[Ironwithin]

ShinVector, on 19 March 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Oh by the WAY... You do NOT get TAG/NARC bonus for just NARCing someone !
Apparently your team mate must hit the person you NARCed for you to get the reward.

Yeah that's what I meant, sorry for being unclear on that.

Quote

Because NARC is a heavy POC it uses ammo ?

Is there a damage notification when you get narc'ed ? Only got narc'ed once so far and it was in the middle of a brawl so I didn't notice.

[ShinVector]

Ironwithin, on 19 March 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Yeah that's what I meant, sorry for being unclear on that.

Is there a damage notification when you get narc'ed ? Only got narc'ed once so far and it was in the middle of a brawl so I didn't notice.

I haven't got a clue.. I am the NARCer not the NARCee.
I think not. I am in am in a light running around lines of mechs that can 1 shot me to death...

I mostly only NARCing at the end of match.. I realise.. What I am doing doesn't even count as an assist ?? Why ??
It is not right man...

[Ironwithin]

Well if you are close enough to NARC them you are close enough to strafe them with a medium laser, that will give you an assist if they are killed ... other than that I really don't know what to say. NARC is the missile version of TAG, it's not made to cause damage, just to support others in doing damage.

[ShinVector]

Ironwithin, on 19 March 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

Well if you are close enough to NARC them you are close enough to strafe them with a medium laser, that will give you an assist if they are killed ... other than that I really don't know what to say. NARC is the missile version of TAG, it's not made to cause damage, just to support others in doing damage.

HMmmmmm... Only if you consider 0.01 damage.. 'Damage' ?
I am talking about this non canon thing called Assist Rewards here.

Anyway it is for PGI to consider..
The only reason I wasn't fiire my lasers is see whether my NARC hit.

This is why NOBODY wants to perform the scout/support roll.
You don't even get rewarded for it.



Edit: typos

Edited by ShinVector, 19 March 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

ShinVector, on 19 March 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

HMmmmmm... Only if you consider 0.01 damage.. 'Damage' ?
I am talking about this non canon thing called Assist Rewards here.

Anyway it is for PGI to consider..
The only reason I wasn't fiire my lasers is see whether my NARC hit.

This is why NOBODY wasn't to perform the scout/support roll.
You don't even get rewarded for it.

Ummmm, in your own video @ 2:31, 3:22, 5:48, 6:13 you did get a Tag/Narc bonus, and I probably missed a couple more. The other team was playing smart and stuck to walls to avoid the LRM's, so many shots didn't connect. On the final screen it shows 14,700 cbills and 175 XP for tag/narc bonus. And an additional 16,800 cbills and 200 xp for spotting assists, so 31,500 of your 142,684 cbills (22.1%) were DIRECTLY RELATED to your NARC effort. A better question is if the reward is balanced vs. packing 4-5 tons of damage dealing firepower?

Now imagine that you were on a coordinated team and called out the targets you were NARCing, instead of just spraying and hoping the pugs would notice which ones you NARC'd. At least you did tell them you were packing NARC at the beginning, and to look for it

Tag/Narc pays. Coordination pays. Combine both and you'll get rewarded and be a force to be reckoned with.

[ShinVector]

Big Tin Man, on 19 March 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Ummmm, in your own video @ 2:31, 3:22, 5:48, 6:13 you did get a Tag/Narc bonus, and I probably missed a couple more. The other team was playing smart and stuck to walls to avoid the LRM's, so many shots didn't connect. On the final screen it shows 14,700 cbills and 175 XP for tag/narc bonus. And an additional 16,800 cbills and 200 xp for spotting assists, so 31,500 of your 142,684 cbills (22.1%) were DIRECTLY RELATED to your NARC effort. A better question is if the reward is balanced vs. packing 4-5 tons of damage dealing firepower?

Now imagine that you were on a coordinated team and called out the targets you were NARCing, instead of just spraying and hoping the pugs would notice which ones you NARC'd. At least you did tell them you were packing NARC at the beginning, and to look for it

Tag/Narc pays. Coordination pays. Combine both and you'll get rewarded and be a force to be reckoned with.

Do you notice the delay ? It simply means team has to hit the NARC person for me to get the reward.

I played other games where there were NO LRMs in my team too. The NARC hits were virtually useless and no rewards for it.

I could have easily.. 1 MLs spray people here and there for the assist...
But that is not the question..

It a certain amount for skill/risk to NARC people can not get killed for it as a light. (Especially without ECM).
Lastly... Assist only count when your opponent DIES.. It is not a given.

The point here to encourage Role warefare with carrot..
Eg. Locust-S Can be a dedicated NARC machine and be rewarded.

Edit:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...12ff37bfb6307e8
Oh look this Locust build now has a purpose and be rewarded for stepping into the frontlines as a support mech.

Edited by ShinVector, 19 March 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Big Tin Man]

ShinVector, on 19 March 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Do you notice the delay ? It simply means team has to hit the NARC person for me to get the reward.

I played other games where there were NO LRMs in my team too. The NARC hits were virtually useless and no rewards for it.

I could have easily.. 1 MLs spray people here and there for the assist...
But that is not the question..

It a certain amount for skill/risk to NARC people can not get killed for it as a light. (Especially without ECM).
Lastly... Assist only count when your opponent DIES.. It is not a given.

The point here to encourage Role warefare with carrot..
Eg. Locust-S Can be a dedicated NARC machine and be rewarded.

Edit:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...12ff37bfb6307e8
Oh look this Locust build now has a purpose and be rewarded for stepping into the frontlines as a support mech.

Yes, the reward appears when someone HITS the target with missles (yourself included), not when you narc it. If you narc a mech that's 3000m from anyone who can shoot it, you're not really helping the team are you?

Rolling a purpose built narc mech into pug's where you could end up on a team with no lrm's at all is the risk you run. Running in a coordinated 4 or 12 man, with many missle boats and a couple purpose built scouts is be a different story. Understand the mechanics of the reward before crying about it. Be aware of where your missle boats are, narc targets within their range, outside of cover, and for the love of god tell them to focus fire on them. No AMS will stop 3 trial stalkers from dropping 120 lrms on a single mech.

NARC's are about teamwork and is rewarded accordingly. Teamwork is woefully deficient in pug's.

If you want huge rewards in pugs, go build a boomjagger and steal kills.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 19 March 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[Ironwithin]

Shin understands the reward system just fine, he wants to get a Kill Assist-reward if he NARCs someone and that someone dies without him shooting said someone ontop of the NARC-bonus he gets for his team firing LRMs on the NARC'ed guy.

As I said, the same principle would apply to the TAG laser, should we get kill assists for TAGing people, too ? I don't know...
Either way it's no big deal if you can just strafe 'em with a single mlas to get the same result.

[RG870]

Ironwithin, on 19 March 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Either way it's no big deal if you can just strafe 'em with a single mlas to get the same result.

If you strafe 'em with your ML they instantly get the damage feedback, turn towards you, lock on and their whole team knows the position of your tiny little scout light. Two seconds later a volley of 200+ LRMs will finish the job at the current meta. Before yesterday's LRMageddon patch I hade some really fun games as a scout who was peaking around corners, tagging the enemies' backline and watching LRMs from teammates rain down on them. Most teams had no clue how they were targetet as they didn't see me. It would have been nice to be rewarded for that spotting job and I could not have done it if I fired my lasers on them grabbing their attention instantly.
You may get a spotting assist for tagging or narcing a mech but a kill assist would be nice to and encourage more light pilots to spot and mark targets for their team.

[MountainCopper]

Oh boy... not enough to be awarded an "Assist" for something negligible as scratching the paint on a target, right now you want extra awards for putting a NARC on a target because of damage !?
I mean, spotting rewards AND multiple types of ECM rewards from your NARC isn't enough? Right.

[Xarian]

GoldenFleece, on 19 March 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Oh boy... not enough to be awarded an "Assist" for something negligible as scratching the paint on a target, right now you want extra awards for putting a NARC on a target because of damage !?
I mean, spotting rewards AND multiple types of ECM rewards from your NARC isn't enough? Right.

There is a specific reward for a "kill assist" that requires you to do damage to the target. By nature, it is for assisting kills. This is above and beyond the rewards for TAG spotting, NARC spotting, etc. You can get this reward for pulsing a flamer or sweeping a MLaser at 500m range, but not for hitting with a NARC.

I agree that players should get an assist reward for hitting with a NARC exactly as if they had hit for some small amount of damage with a laser. They should not get an assist reward for TAG except for the missile bonus that's already built in - because TAG is long-ranged, ridiculously easy to hit with, and is free. NARC is none of these things.

This is an extremely specialized case - it will usually only come into play on mechs whose other weapons get blown off, or forward scouts who can't afford to do anything except NARC and run. It's extremely risky and helps the team a lot - NARC users deserve the assist credit. Remember that if they continue hitting with lasers, too, they only get the one assist credit.

[StalaggtIKE]

Great idea, OP.

[Pepsi One]

ShinVector, on 19 March 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Make NARC hit do 0.01 damage !

Maybe even make it so that it does even less(0.001), but shows up as an impact to the enemy mech as a small warning if Betty doesn't warn you.

[ShinVector]

Pepsi One, on 19 March 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Maybe even make it so that it does even less(0.001), but shows up as an impact to the enemy mech as a small warning if Betty doesn't warn you.

Agreed. As a pure support/spotter... I would just want to hide behind corners NARC people behind their back trying to stay undetected as much as possible out of combat. (I myself may not be one.. But there are truly scout/spot/support/command light pilots.. They exist...)

Weeee... I get the feeling the people who understand are the other that actually tried perform this exact role before.

Yes.. As per the poster above.. Don't feel TAG should get the same benefit since there is much lower risk for TAG enhanced range for 750M.

This was my first match NARCing people..
Geee.. I NARCed 8 people for a whopping 16,800 Cbills.. You get far more for getting 4 kill assists, 26,000 !


*Not: Those who are not aware.
1. TAG/NARC you only get the bonus if your team mate hits the narced target.
2. Kill assist you only get the bonus if your target dies.
1&2 You can only get it once for each enemy mech !

Edited by ShinVector, 19 March 2014 - 05:38 PM.

[ShinVector]

GoldenFleece, on 19 March 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Oh boy... not enough to be awarded an "Assist" for something negligible as scratching the paint on a target, right now you want extra awards for putting a NARC on a target because of damage !?
I mean, spotting rewards AND multiple types of ECM rewards from your NARC isn't enough? Right.

I wanna see you take a light mech with only NARC-ing to help the TEAM in mind.
At the end of it.. Go ask yourself whether you got rewarded for the amount of risk yourself into.
*No video no respect.

[Pepsi One]

Speaking of scout roles, there should be rewards for scouting. If that takes the form of NARCs giving bonuses in assists, then perhaps that will improve teamwork.