1
So, pre-patch yesterday I pointed out that when I got home, there were a few things I wanted to test. They were:
1. How does my Victor handle now?
2. How effective are LRM's, in various tube-sizes and groupings (includes new AMS).
3. How does NARC function now, with the changes?
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The Adventures of Metaman
Spoiler
So, I loaded up 'Metaman,' my 2 ppc/2ac5 Dragonslayer. I run a 330 XL in it, and tossed a couple heatsinks to throw on AMS and add some armor back on.
I played three games in Metaman...700+ each, 4+ kills in both. In one match I found myself in the tunnel on Forest Colony, hopping about and trading shots at 250m. I killed a pair of spiders that match.
Conclusion: The Victor DOES feel slightly more sluggish...but only a bit. It isn't crippling. Direct-fire is still plenty easy to use, whether you're jumping or not, and the decrease in torso twist speed is NOT enough to effect how well the Victor spreads damage. If this nerf was meant to "nerf poptarting" it failed. If it was meant to bring the Victor in line with the assaults as to the 'piloting feel' then it worked. Rating: Meh to +1. Nothing broken.
I played three games in Metaman...700+ each, 4+ kills in both. In one match I found myself in the tunnel on Forest Colony, hopping about and trading shots at 250m. I killed a pair of spiders that match.
Conclusion: The Victor DOES feel slightly more sluggish...but only a bit. It isn't crippling. Direct-fire is still plenty easy to use, whether you're jumping or not, and the decrease in torso twist speed is NOT enough to effect how well the Victor spreads damage. If this nerf was meant to "nerf poptarting" it failed. If it was meant to bring the Victor in line with the assaults as to the 'piloting feel' then it worked. Rating: Meh to +1. Nothing broken.
Lurmaggedonagain?
Spoiler
To test this I took out my Protector (2 LL, 2 LRM10's, 1 AC10, TAG), my Battlemaster-1S (4 LRM10's, 3 ML, TAG), and the trial Stalker 3F (4 LRM15's, 4 ML).
I took out the Protector twice. Using LRM's as a supplemental weapon on a balanced build worked so-so. I did 400 and 500 damage in those two games, netting 1-3 kills in each with multiple assists. Granted, I was also playing in the 200-400m range from my opponents. I was NOT staying in the back. I was playing a midrange support 'mech. I found that the LRM's were hitting more consistently, as people doing the duck-in-and-out-of-cover shuffle in slow 'mechs were unable to walk forward 3 steps, stop, and then reverse in time to avoid missiles from <400m. Frankly, that's balanced. Trying moving from cover to cover and firing in between, not peeking in and out if you're in a heavy or a medium.
I played the Battlemaster for 4 games. It is fully mastered, with target decay and adv. sensors. In it I did a range of damage, from 300 to 700. This number depended on two things: Did the enemies lights rush me and distract me, and was my team holding locks/TAGing/NARCing.
With a reliable lock, this guy could make it rain. Getting hit by dozens and dozens of missiles at once IS a distraction to piloting. That said...even when multiple missile boats were firing (I solo pugged AND teamed up with 3 buddies for these tests) it was often a close-up brawler getting that concentrated killshot. There were multiple occasions when an Assault found itself in the open and exposed and our LRM's DESTROYED it...but it wasn't instantaneous, and was often because the pilot made a POOR CHOICE.
The Trial Stalker. Yeah...the one we all made fun of for having an XL? Well, with a speed buff to LRM's...it's totally viable. My 4-man wanted their "5 wins in a Trial Mech" achievement, so we dropped a 4-man group of these. Results varied. In one game on Crimson Straits we gave a centurion what was probably his most frustrating game of the year...our LRM's took both arms and a leg before coring him. However, he was the only kill our team got...and despite us making it rain on the REST of their team, too, our team was unable to capitalize on all the damaged components. Direct-fire, this round goes to you.
In other games, however, that dedicated LRM-lance was perfect. We dropped on Alpine with our 4 Trial Stalkers and found 2 MORE in our group.
The whine was instantaneous. "We have too many © 'mechs. We're boned."
It was skirmish, and our last was on the FAR side away from "The Hill." Our group went around the tower (we spawned on the left) and starting playing the peekabo game with the team that took the hill first. We took our LRM mechs up the long gradual slope of pwnage...and informed our team to start getting dedicated locks. We rained in missiles from behind and their sides...and eventually their team decided to rush US instead. Over 500m of open ground. HUGE mistake. We won that game with 9 mechs still alive...but it took nearly 13 minutes. It was a game of positioning and was INCREDIBLY fun. The other team stayed in one place too long. It was "OP missiles" that won the day...being smart took care of that. If we'd had 4 direct-fire meta AC5/PPC 'mechs, we'd have focused them one at a time as they came over the hill in the same manner.
One thing I did notice: without the target decay module the amount of missiles I lost to cover or lost locks was definitely noticeable. That target decay module, coupled with the increased missile time, now makes LRM's far more viable...instead of taking them from 'joke' to 'niche.'
Conclusion:
The speed buff is considerable. Targets within 600m that are 30-40m out of cover do NOT dodge missiles as effectively if they aren't paying attention. Past 600m they still have LOTS of time to derp before dodging.
While the speed is increased, the groupings are the same, as is the damage. I do NOT think they're OP. I think they're viable now. I saw people trying to cross wide open spaces in slow mechs get TORN APART...and I saw mechs using cover properly that were NOT. The LRM's are a little easier to get off a single salvo and have it hit if you TIME it correctly...but LURMpocalypse isn't back. They're now a viable alternative to ballistics and lasers...with tradeoffs. Rating: +1
I took out the Protector twice. Using LRM's as a supplemental weapon on a balanced build worked so-so. I did 400 and 500 damage in those two games, netting 1-3 kills in each with multiple assists. Granted, I was also playing in the 200-400m range from my opponents. I was NOT staying in the back. I was playing a midrange support 'mech. I found that the LRM's were hitting more consistently, as people doing the duck-in-and-out-of-cover shuffle in slow 'mechs were unable to walk forward 3 steps, stop, and then reverse in time to avoid missiles from <400m. Frankly, that's balanced. Trying moving from cover to cover and firing in between, not peeking in and out if you're in a heavy or a medium.
I played the Battlemaster for 4 games. It is fully mastered, with target decay and adv. sensors. In it I did a range of damage, from 300 to 700. This number depended on two things: Did the enemies lights rush me and distract me, and was my team holding locks/TAGing/NARCing.
With a reliable lock, this guy could make it rain. Getting hit by dozens and dozens of missiles at once IS a distraction to piloting. That said...even when multiple missile boats were firing (I solo pugged AND teamed up with 3 buddies for these tests) it was often a close-up brawler getting that concentrated killshot. There were multiple occasions when an Assault found itself in the open and exposed and our LRM's DESTROYED it...but it wasn't instantaneous, and was often because the pilot made a POOR CHOICE.
The Trial Stalker. Yeah...the one we all made fun of for having an XL? Well, with a speed buff to LRM's...it's totally viable. My 4-man wanted their "5 wins in a Trial Mech" achievement, so we dropped a 4-man group of these. Results varied. In one game on Crimson Straits we gave a centurion what was probably his most frustrating game of the year...our LRM's took both arms and a leg before coring him. However, he was the only kill our team got...and despite us making it rain on the REST of their team, too, our team was unable to capitalize on all the damaged components. Direct-fire, this round goes to you.
In other games, however, that dedicated LRM-lance was perfect. We dropped on Alpine with our 4 Trial Stalkers and found 2 MORE in our group.
The whine was instantaneous. "We have too many © 'mechs. We're boned."
It was skirmish, and our last was on the FAR side away from "The Hill." Our group went around the tower (we spawned on the left) and starting playing the peekabo game with the team that took the hill first. We took our LRM mechs up the long gradual slope of pwnage...and informed our team to start getting dedicated locks. We rained in missiles from behind and their sides...and eventually their team decided to rush US instead. Over 500m of open ground. HUGE mistake. We won that game with 9 mechs still alive...but it took nearly 13 minutes. It was a game of positioning and was INCREDIBLY fun. The other team stayed in one place too long. It was "OP missiles" that won the day...being smart took care of that. If we'd had 4 direct-fire meta AC5/PPC 'mechs, we'd have focused them one at a time as they came over the hill in the same manner.
One thing I did notice: without the target decay module the amount of missiles I lost to cover or lost locks was definitely noticeable. That target decay module, coupled with the increased missile time, now makes LRM's far more viable...instead of taking them from 'joke' to 'niche.'
Conclusion:
The speed buff is considerable. Targets within 600m that are 30-40m out of cover do NOT dodge missiles as effectively if they aren't paying attention. Past 600m they still have LOTS of time to derp before dodging.
While the speed is increased, the groupings are the same, as is the damage. I do NOT think they're OP. I think they're viable now. I saw people trying to cross wide open spaces in slow mechs get TORN APART...and I saw mechs using cover properly that were NOT. The LRM's are a little easier to get off a single salvo and have it hit if you TIME it correctly...but LURMpocalypse isn't back. They're now a viable alternative to ballistics and lasers...with tradeoffs. Rating: +1
Narc? Narc?!? Narc
Spoiler
To give Narc a whirl I outfitted my Jenner-K with 4 ML, NARC, two tons of ammo (36 shots) and an XL300. I was mildly annoyed to find that in the mechlab, it doesn't TELL you that Narc lasts for 30 seconds...merely that while it's active it decreases lock time and increases missile hit % (via giving all incoming missiles Artemis-type grouping...does not stack).
This is the one 'mech that I don't have mastered yet (It's the K...after my D and F were mastered, why bother?). As such, in a light, I was only going 138k, and my basics weren't doubled. In fact...it only had basic fully complete (though by the last game of the night, speed tweak was mine).
I took it while running in a 4-man. In some games the other 3 gents dropped in missile-boats...in others, they did not. We had mixed results with the NARC. In our first game we got Crimson straits. I popped over the saddle and instantly Narc'ed a Stalker that was about to peek over. He backed up. With cover nowhere nearby. From a distance of 250m, my 3 boys ripped him apart as he backed away at 40 kph. Well, THAT went well.
In other games, I asked ahead of time if people brought LRM's, and told them I'd be Narcing. I called those Narc'ed targets out via chat. Surprisingly, people listened. D-DC's experienced sudden rains of missiles that forced them into cover (instead of holding point around a corner with the assurance that ECM would keep them safe).
One HUGE difference I noticed was when I narc'ed light mechs. I narced 2 Firestarters, a Raven 3L and a Spider 5D in those games last night. Missiles went up, and came down, and HIT. They didn't implode the light mechs...but they were fast enough to HIT. I can't tell you how nice it was to see missiles travelling FASTER than a light 'mech. I saw a Firestarter get legged via missiles. FANTASTIC.
Please bear in mind, that I was in a Jenner WITHOUT speed tweak. 138 kph. They noticed me Narcing...and did not approve. I was ALSO a target of missiles. I found that, going 138 kph, I still had time to find proper cover. I took hits...but even with 3 missileboats on me I did NOT feel like I was useless, like I couldn't win, or like I was automatically screwed. In a light, without ECM, I did NOT find missiles to be OP. I found them to be USEFUL. Prior to this patch I'd never "waste" LRM's on a light. I knew that out of a 40 missile salvo, maybe 5 would hit...possibly none if they had AMS. That impunity is gone. Thank God.
Conclusion: In a coordinated lance, NARC can be AWESOME. 30 seconds of uninterrupted lock...when losing lock is the biggest problem for LRM's? Makes a big difference, and forces the targeted mech into cover. Narc is STILL hard to hit with though...it's like a stoned AC20 round.
In games WITHOUT a coordinated lance, NARC is useful...even without any LRM's on my team (and it happened, twice) it allowed me to pinpoint ECM mechs for my team and to highlight where the enemy was.
Despite these advantages, I'm gonna fall down on the side of it NOT being OP, though. It wasn't an automatic win button. It helped make LRM's useful. And it gave Narc a REASON to be taken. It's still a HUGE investment in tonnage for Lights, and is not terribly user-friendly. And that's good...it balances out.
This is the one 'mech that I don't have mastered yet (It's the K...after my D and F were mastered, why bother?). As such, in a light, I was only going 138k, and my basics weren't doubled. In fact...it only had basic fully complete (though by the last game of the night, speed tweak was mine).
I took it while running in a 4-man. In some games the other 3 gents dropped in missile-boats...in others, they did not. We had mixed results with the NARC. In our first game we got Crimson straits. I popped over the saddle and instantly Narc'ed a Stalker that was about to peek over. He backed up. With cover nowhere nearby. From a distance of 250m, my 3 boys ripped him apart as he backed away at 40 kph. Well, THAT went well.
In other games, I asked ahead of time if people brought LRM's, and told them I'd be Narcing. I called those Narc'ed targets out via chat. Surprisingly, people listened. D-DC's experienced sudden rains of missiles that forced them into cover (instead of holding point around a corner with the assurance that ECM would keep them safe).
One HUGE difference I noticed was when I narc'ed light mechs. I narced 2 Firestarters, a Raven 3L and a Spider 5D in those games last night. Missiles went up, and came down, and HIT. They didn't implode the light mechs...but they were fast enough to HIT. I can't tell you how nice it was to see missiles travelling FASTER than a light 'mech. I saw a Firestarter get legged via missiles. FANTASTIC.
Please bear in mind, that I was in a Jenner WITHOUT speed tweak. 138 kph. They noticed me Narcing...and did not approve. I was ALSO a target of missiles. I found that, going 138 kph, I still had time to find proper cover. I took hits...but even with 3 missileboats on me I did NOT feel like I was useless, like I couldn't win, or like I was automatically screwed. In a light, without ECM, I did NOT find missiles to be OP. I found them to be USEFUL. Prior to this patch I'd never "waste" LRM's on a light. I knew that out of a 40 missile salvo, maybe 5 would hit...possibly none if they had AMS. That impunity is gone. Thank God.
Conclusion: In a coordinated lance, NARC can be AWESOME. 30 seconds of uninterrupted lock...when losing lock is the biggest problem for LRM's? Makes a big difference, and forces the targeted mech into cover. Narc is STILL hard to hit with though...it's like a stoned AC20 round.
In games WITHOUT a coordinated lance, NARC is useful...even without any LRM's on my team (and it happened, twice) it allowed me to pinpoint ECM mechs for my team and to highlight where the enemy was.
Despite these advantages, I'm gonna fall down on the side of it NOT being OP, though. It wasn't an automatic win button. It helped make LRM's useful. And it gave Narc a REASON to be taken. It's still a HUGE investment in tonnage for Lights, and is not terribly user-friendly. And that's good...it balances out.
Other Random things I noticed
Spoiler
So, caves. Tunnels. People were USING THEM.
On Frozen City, people avoid the tunnel because "Seismic alerts you people are there, it's no longer sneaky." Yeah...but you can't get hit by missiles.
On Forest Colony, people used the tunnel! It was no longer "just a funnel to spit out mechs 1 and 2 at a time for the other team to kill." It was a valid strategy to avoid missiles, and knowing that people WAIT to shoot mechs coming out made people advance, as a group, and push. It was awesome.
Crimson Straits. The team CLOSER to the saddle didn't take it! They went underneath! Huge surprise (not). This is the map where I played with LRM blindfire...and with dropping LRM's THROUGH the holes in the platform. Yes, it CAN be done. NO, it is NOT easy. From the saddle you have to be about 200-225m away from the corner to get the right angle to pop missiles UNDER the hanging roof...but it's possible
Another thing...the new smurfy layout. It's nice to see what's on your mech at a glance. If I were them, if making an interactive smurfy layout is still a ways down the line, I'd add a button under each section of your mech on the "mech detail" screen that allows you to pop directly into that mech section in the configuration tab. That's just me.
On Frozen City, people avoid the tunnel because "Seismic alerts you people are there, it's no longer sneaky." Yeah...but you can't get hit by missiles.
On Forest Colony, people used the tunnel! It was no longer "just a funnel to spit out mechs 1 and 2 at a time for the other team to kill." It was a valid strategy to avoid missiles, and knowing that people WAIT to shoot mechs coming out made people advance, as a group, and push. It was awesome.
Crimson Straits. The team CLOSER to the saddle didn't take it! They went underneath! Huge surprise (not). This is the map where I played with LRM blindfire...and with dropping LRM's THROUGH the holes in the platform. Yes, it CAN be done. NO, it is NOT easy. From the saddle you have to be about 200-225m away from the corner to get the right angle to pop missiles UNDER the hanging roof...but it's possible
Another thing...the new smurfy layout. It's nice to see what's on your mech at a glance. If I were them, if making an interactive smurfy layout is still a ways down the line, I'd add a button under each section of your mech on the "mech detail" screen that allows you to pop directly into that mech section in the configuration tab. That's just me.
Overall:
I'm happy with this patch. Missiles don't feel OP to me...they feel like they're on par with the direct-fire meta we've been experiencing. Frankly, if they buffed up SRM's, the weapon balance would feel...balanced, to me. For real. Balanced.
NARC is actually useful, but it's tonnage value and difficulty of use make it feel balanced.
The nerfs to the victor don't seem crippling...and it feels like an assault. I still wreck face in Metaman...that hasn't been nerfed to the ground. Someone else will need to comment on Highlanders...I use mine as a more mobile Atlas...they've ALWAY felt like a bus to me.
Edited by Ghost Badger, 19 March 2014 - 05:46 AM.
