182 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Pyrrho, on 19 March 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

Soon™ everyone will be a PUGer but then, by definition, no one will be.

[Mystere]

Chemie, on 19 March 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

That is easily avoided. 2 queues. 1. pUg only. 2. Mixed.
I know there are lots of single players who would gladdly round out a 12-man knowing that the pre-mades were balanced out across both teams.

Problem solved.

Well, some(?) of us have have been calling for exactly such a thing. But so far, nothing.

Nick Makiaveli, on 19 March 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

I'm with you, so no offense etc, but how would it differ from what we have now?

Seriously, the PUGs are losing to other PUGs, and whichever side loses cries about pre-mades.

So why not test it out and see if it really makes a difference?

All I am saying is that this needs to be handled like a delicate butterfly and not like an 800lb gorilla in a glasshouse.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Hood, on 19 March 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

I'll buy a gold mech if you do it??? What do you say?? Deal???

LOL a guy brought pgi a $400 dollar cake ontop of gold mechs and the deal went cold, simply if you're thinking of bribery think "i'll buy the company out" then you might be able to change things

[Deathlike]

This is fresh and exciting. May this thread not be moved to K-Town.

Seriously, PGI will do "what it thinks is best" (despite it being the lazy route to solving things) instead of growing the game in a more natural fashion... growing the community by giving it the tools to succeed, and eventually the community will reinvest back into PGI.

I know... HERESY!

Edited by Deathlike, 19 March 2014 - 05:17 PM.

[Alex Warden]

teamplay´s been patched out...

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 19 March 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

This is fresh and exciting. May this thread not be moved to K-Town.

Seriously, PGI will do "what it thinks is best" (despite it being the lazy route to solving things) instead of growing the game in a more natural fashion... growing the community by giving it the tools to succeed, and eventually the community will reinvest back into PGI.

I know... HERESY!

Not going to happen.
Maybe if Smurfy had figured out how to monetize his website, PGI would take a serious look at providing that functionality.
Bet me we won't have to utilize 3rd party for a 'lobby' to find other groups to NOT earn anything other than some serious Epeen stroking if we're more that 4 and less that 12.
Bet me we won't have to come up with some sort of CW because PGI will just phone it in, and in order to get something HALF of what MPBT:3025 was, we'll have to make it ourselves.

Lazy developer is lazy.

[Deathlike]

Roadbeer, on 19 March 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

Maybe if Smurfy had figured out how to monetize his website, PGI would take a serious look at providing that functionality.

You do realize he's running google ads on his main site?

He also has "the inside access" to all the sales (well, mechs only, but that's kinda the only thing that matters).

Quote

Bet me we won't have to utilize 3rd party for a 'lobby' to find other groups to NOT earn anything other than some serious Epeen stroking if we're more that 4 and less that 12.
Bet me we won't have to come up with some sort of CW because PGI will just phone it in, and in order to get something HALF of what MPBT:3025 was, we'll have to make it ourselves.

Lazy developer is lazy.

Hey... we can have another solo tourney!

[Sandpit]

Well Russ DID say I was working under false assumptions about 5-11 not being able to participate in CW. That's SOMEthing at least....

MAYBE, they're seriously looking into how they can allow 5-11 run.

I'm not holding my breath though

[Alex Warden]

Roadbeer, on 19 March 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

groups to NOT earn anything other than some serious Epeen stroking

seriously, that´s the point where i come to the conclusion that MWO won´t be within my top 5 by the end of this year anymore...

i play MOSTLY 12 man now, when our unit has official training days... i barely play random matches, because stupid dull gameplay (imho)... so the next amazing step of PGI is to take away the REWARDS for the only thing that keeps me playing at moment... (which are already low enough given the time/income ratio in 12vs12) and even better, lets some of us pay for a feature we all were waiting for and earns us nothing lol... i take that one with some salt, but i can live with it for the sake of better arrangement...

maybe i´ll participate in the one or the other player driven league, but that also means there won´t be any progress for me anymore unless i force myself into a gameplay that i don´t really enjoy... that´s the way PGI wants to keep me investing? bad idea really

Elite Dangerous and some others are already waiting for me i guess, and many won´t punish me for flying in fleets... gg

Edited by Alex Warden, 19 March 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[Sandpit]

Alex Warden, on 19 March 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

maybe i´ll participate in the one or the other player driven league, but that also means there won´t be any progress for me anymore unless i force myself into a gameplay that i don´t really enjoy... that´s the way PGI wants to keep me investing? bad idea really

^this

[Roland]

Mystere, on 19 March 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

What do you think will happen in the forums if a pug team faced a full 12-man and got massacred?

If team numbers were unrestricted, there is effectively zero chance that a 12 man team would get matched against 12 solo players.

I seriously don't understand why that's so hard for people to grasp.

[Sandpit]

keep constructive ideas coming, maybe we'll get some changes made.
(I'd personally recommend going with Road's idea of emailing support and taking to twitter and CIVILLY explaining why the group limits are not a good idea and various ideas of how to implement it)

[-Natural Selection-]

About 1/2 the guys I know said f-it when they limited the size. Another 1/4 when they said 4 would remain the max. Damn near the rest after this last lrm patch. So Id say their plans are working just fine

[slide]

Separate queues are the answer.

But am I the only one who thinks there are not enough players left to implement a solution that is so obvious?

Here's some figures for you PGI, seeing as you like them so much.

Over the last 2 years or so at least 900 people signed up for the ARMD website, people that wanted to play in groups.

Our last survey suggests that fewer than 100 have any interest in MWO AT ALL! Most of those are so casual they may as well be non existent. A serious portion (>50%) of those that are not playing your game in any form were Founders or others who had spent money.

On a good day with lots of promotion we might be able to field 2*12 man teams against each other. I know for a fact that most of the other units in the Oceanic area (Australia) can't even field 1 team when it's organised let alone on an adhoc basis, despite having memberships in the hundreds. The 12v12 queue is dead in our primetime. Of all the 12v12 played in the last few months, down here, I am confident that 98% of them had to be organised before hand with at least a week or two's notice. It is simply too much work.

I have over 300 friends in my list from at least 8 different units, a rarely see more than 20 on at a time and usually the same ones.

At the end of closed beta we would have 8 to10, 8 man teams dropping 7 nights a week, a good night now that doesn't have something organised might have 3-4 4 man teams.

Paid private matches will see very little use in my time zone because we can drop against any team we want, when ever we want with a less than 1% chance of bumping into anyone else. We've been doing it for months.

The only surprising thing about he 84% solo drops is that it is not higher, because you have driven all but the most stubborn of players who want to group up, away.

PGI wake up and smell what you are shovelling, give the community the tools it needs to help you, not nerf us into oblivion.

[Mystere]

Roland, on 19 March 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

If team numbers were unrestricted, there is effectively zero chance that a 12 man team would get matched against 12 solo players.

I seriously don't understand why that's so hard for people to grasp.

Not 12 solos. It's mixed 12 vs. 12-man. Or is a 12-man team going to be forced to wait until another full team is available?

[Mystere]

Sandpit, on 19 March 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

Well Russ DID say I was working under false assumptions about 5-11 not being able to participate in CW. That's SOMEthing at least....

MAYBE, they're seriously looking into how they can allow 5-11 run.

I'm not holding my breath though

I think "anything goes" in CW is best, and having a "balancing" matchmaker is worst.

On the other hand, the OP is talking about the current PUG queue.

[Roland]

Mystere, on 19 March 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

Not 12 solos. It's mixed 12 vs. 12-man. Or is a 12-man team going to be forced to wait until another full team is available?

So.. what exactly is wrong about playing on a team with a few groups against a 12 man team?

I'd rather be able to play with 5 of my friends, even if it meant I had to go up against full 12 man teams.

Sandpit, on 19 March 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

keep constructive ideas coming, maybe we'll get some changes made.
(I'd personally recommend going with Road's idea of emailing support and taking to twitter and CIVILLY explaining why the group limits are not a good idea and various ideas of how to implement it)

Dude, I think Russ just says stuff, and has no intention of appeasing you at all. He's just saying words.

[NeonKnight]

Part of the problem is PGI's 'ridiculous' stats of 84% are single players, when like you stated, a lot of us are in the 5+ friend paying together boat. Every night there is at least 5 of us on from our group wanting to drop together so it's a group of 4 and 1 solo.

Add to that the constantly repeating obsession PGI has with running their challenge events EVERY WEEKEND that are gear/directed towards SOLO DROPPING. Look at this upcoming weekend's FACTION CHALLENGE

This challenge has the following caveat:

Quote

Important: Remember to choose your Faction early! If you change your Faction House after the beginning of the tournament, your scoring and rewards will continue to be reflected in the Faction you had selected when the contest began. Scoring will only be considered for matches where you drop alone (not in a team).

Well Gee Whiz! Unless I want to not play with a Team of friends, I can't participate. And this is a challenge not for a flashing bauble inside my mech's cockpit, but for the equivalent of REAL WORLD MONEY (1600 MC in each faction for 1rst Place). So of course, all the solo players will be out in force, overwhelming the team players numbers and PGI will point to this as further evidence that: Team Players are the minority. "Why Look, the weekend of March 21st clearly shows 95% of all players were solo players, while only 5% were part of team!" I'm sure is what we will hear quoted to those of us who want team play back.

If the numbers were truly 84% solo players all along, then give us the option to drop in teams of 4+ versus who ever the match maker wants to pit us with. Let TACTICS and TEAM PLAY have a greater role on the battle field as opposed to the current 4 man group uses tactics, 8 men rush to their doom and then blame the 4 man for not assisting in their downfall.

[Sam Slade]

This is a 'punish them for dissing my clan war' pre-emtive strike. The motive behind it is that of a QQing snowflake not a finance minded busines owner(if it's trying to be a finance minded business owner then they need to get someone in to look at their after sale service plan).

The end result of this will be farming, just like in WoT.

I made that all big and scary bcause it will be felt far more in MWO then in WoT. Bad decision is bad... make CW include everyone!

EDIT: farming because people will make their own leagues but then need C-bills to maintain their account... so they will eventualy get a well made, hard to detect farm-bot and leave MWO running while they work/sleep/whatever. I quit World of Tanks because it has become Farmville for tanks... wit this no reward idea MWO will end up with the same mentaility (screw the regular community, I need spacebucks).

Edited by Sam Slade, 19 March 2014 - 09:42 PM.

[Mystere]

Roland, on 19 March 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:

So.. what exactly is wrong about playing on a team with a few groups against a 12 man team?

I'd rather be able to play with 5 of my friends, even if it meant I had to go up against full 12 man teams.

And again you are reading me wrong. I don't have a problem, and obviously neither do you. Unfortunately, based on prior history, much of the existing player base apparently does.

Do you remember why the 4-man limit was imposed in the first place when we still had only 8x8 matches? People, a whole lot of people (or a few very loud ones), endlessly cried to the high heavens until PGI catered to them. I expect more of the same (at the very least) when groups of 5-12 are allowed.

But in the end, I really don't give a flying f**k what limits or balancing algorithms are imposed on the PUG scene as long as CW is kept totally free of them. But, I do mind that PGI is wasting limited and precious time and resources constantly "tweaking" the PUG queue when those very same limited and precious time and resources are better spent on CW.

Or is meaningless arena-type combat now the "vision" for MWO and not Community Warfare?

Edited by Mystere, 19 March 2014 - 09:45 PM.