60 replies to this topic

[Turist0AT]

use shutdown.Tho im not saying you'r wrong.

Edited by Turist0AT, 20 March 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[7R1P0D]

Turist0AT, on 20 March 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

use shutdown.

I'm assuming this was a joke, since the missiles will still hit where they lost lock on you, which will be the place you're standing since you can't move while shut down

[Voivode]

You stated yourself you have buddies. One of you nab an ECM mech and all of you grab AMS. They also boosted the range at which AMS activates. Heck, those dual AMS mechs have a bit of an advantage now (cue smug nods from everyone who bought a Jester or Atlas K) in that respect.

In short. Adapt. This game is going to have changes made to it until the day they turn the servers off. Unless you exclusively play Xbox or Playstation games, the next game you play will have changes patched into it. Counters to missiles are in the game. People have regarded AMS as a waste in the past because missiles weren't a serious threat. They are now. Equip AMS and go kill some LRM stalkers.

07 see you on the battlefield!

Tripod, on 20 March 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'm assuming this was a joke, since the missiles will still hit where they lost lock on you, which will be the place you're standing since you can't move while shut down

Shut down while running at top speed lateral to where they were launched from. The lock will break before your mech reaches a standstill and missiles will zoom on by.

Edited by Voivode, 20 March 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Tripod, on 20 March 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

who the hell said I was in the middle?

I was on the edge of the crater, using the crater ridge as cover from the enemy in the middle

every time I peeked to shoot the guy capping the middle point, a stalker in the middle (about 300 meters away) would fire all of his lrms at me after I ran back into cover and ran full speed to somewhere else

the lrms would go over the ridge, and turn straight towards me and hit me anyway, despite them hitting me 3 seconds after they lost sight of me

the STEEP cover you're talking about is the cover I'm saying is now completely useless

It almost never blocked missiles before, but it broke LoS enough for only the first volley to hit you if they had the perk, now all of the missiles hit you beofre they lose tracking because of the speed buff

also dracol I said BREAKING LoS is now pointless, since the missiles that still get to you before the perk wears off do enough damage to either kill you or take off and arm and half of a side torso. Using LoS to never get locked in the first place would be ok if you wouldnt have to step out and actually fight the enemy instead of just hide until time ran out


doing that much EVERY game? I doubt it unless you're playing a dual ER laser light with ecm and just running whenever someone looks at you instead of the team you're using as bait. Post a screen of your mech stats, mine are below https://www.dropbox....%2015.52.41.png


notice most being in the 350-400 range with the stalker being at 500 at only 15 games. clearly it has a huge learning curve and doesnt involve waiting for someone who's not a light to push out of cover and then spamming missiles at them

Hmm...okay. Your anecdotal evidence runs contrary to mine. I have no issues using it for cover...and missiles don't magically follow me in that pattern.

Agree to disagree.

Apologies for assuming you were in the caldera, since you were talking about "no cover in the middle of the map" and the inside of the caldera (the center of the map) is the only place where I've discovered cover is scarce.

Also, as to the numbers, I was discussing "good games" not "average damage per match." Until you hit at least 50 game in a mech, that "average" is pretty inflated, and statistically useless. Others would argue 100+ games are required.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 20 March 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[Sug]

Since the module only effects locks that you get on targets you have LOS on, nerfing it really wouldn't effect indirect LRM fire which is what most people are bitching about.

Am I right? I use this module but if i'm behind something and lock onto someone else's target I lose the lock as soon as my teammate does.

Edited by Sug, 20 March 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[7R1P0D]

Voivode, on 20 March 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Shut down while running at top speed lateral to where they were launched from. The lock will break before your mech reaches a standstill and missiles will zoom on by.

at what speed in this effective? I'm assuming it wouldn't work too well at anything going under 81

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Lurms be op bros. BAP needs the lock time lowered from 15 to 10 seconds and lrms need their damage and/or accuracy nerfed. Its another lrmappocalypse.

[plodder]

Frustration, sorry you have it, many good points. Decay, the sixth flavor in my opinion, so why do we have something that physically, we shouldn't.
It was a balance, like what you are asking. Maybe it is instead of being smart missles, maybe that would be a better name, sending info back to your mech?
Other physically unreal things exist in he game. Like a mech running over tough terrain at over 130 kph, making high speed turns and jumps and stops.o you want that too? Ok, I do, but it is tough. They used to have knockdown. How about a Spider running full speed into a large imposing object, like my Atlas, his mech should fall down, break up, and not get up again, right?
Anyway, just something to think about. Thanks for the stimulating communications;^)

[Trauglodyte]

Tripod, on 20 March 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'm assuming this was a joke, since the missiles will still hit where they lost lock on you, which will be the place you're standing since you can't move while shut down

Actually, no, this wasn't a joke. It is especially effective if you have a mech with JJs. If you're spotted, hit your shut down button (depending on if you're at extreme long range: 800m+). If you've got JJs, jump into the air and shut down in mid-air, the missiles will adjust the trajectory to hit you were you last shut down so they'll zip right over your head.

There isn't much need for this as you can just straight up avoid them but it can be useful.

[Voivode]

Tripod, on 20 March 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

at what speed in this effective? I'm assuming it wouldn't work too well at anything going under 81

Speed is less important in this tactic than the angle and distance from the launching mech. Moving as close to perpendicular as you can from the launching mech. Some of that is luck, some of it is situational awareness. If the missile boats are 300meters or closer your best bet really is to just charge them. If I'm fast enough, I'll charge them from 400 meters. They'll get a good volley in, so use torso twist to keep your essentials from getting blown out.

[East Indy]

I'm gathering that the premise here is "I should never get hit by LRMs."

[Rampancy]

East Indy, on 20 March 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I'm gathering that the premise here is "I should never get hit by LRMs."

Yeah.

I have no issues with the new LRM speed, provided the target decay module isn't used, but I agree that the module needs a heavy nerf. The degree and duration with which LRMs follow around cover after breaking LOS is simply too high now with the enhanced speed. "Only 1.6 seconds" gained by LRMs is a LONGGG time behind cover.

[7R1P0D]

Voivode, on 20 March 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Speed is less important in this tactic than the angle and distance from the launching mech. Moving as close to perpendicular as you can from the launching mech. Some of that is luck, some of it is situational awareness. If the missile boats are 300meters or closer your best bet really is to just charge them. If I'm fast enough, I'll charge them from 400 meters. They'll get a good volley in, so use torso twist to keep your essentials from getting blown out.

Im guessing I misunderstood how the shutdown worked then

I always assumed you lost lock when your hud shut off and betty said "systems offline", which happenes a second after you click the button, at which point you're usually standing still

if it happens as soon as you click the button instead, it could definitely be useful

[Big Tin Man]

In this thread:

QQ I can't poptart anymore because Artemis LRMs + advanced target decay keep me locked for everyone. QQ

Find cover, use ams, use ecm, use your friend's ams, and kill the bloody NARC toting lights immediately. Facehug missile boats when you get close.

Protip: stand 180m-200m out from missile boats and let them fire at you. Charge when they do and watch them bounce off your mech. Don't trip on the piles of their wasted ammo while you batter their overheated rage filled boat.

[Bushrat]

ahem....

This module does not need a nerf. Its not only LRMS that use the module but dedicated streak boats. I run light- hunter/killers all the time in Kintaros Griffins, and Shadowhawks. I rely on that module to give me a fighting chance to keep locks on fast moving lights. I am not always able to keep up with them or stay locked even with the module. I do my fair share of killing with it, but its not easy, sometimes I get clobbered. If you nerf the module you will also affect SSRMs which actually need a bit of a buff.

I also find that recently the LRMaggedon is a bit of a problem right now, but not because of the module but because of the LRM speed as we all know. And, many players are trying out LRMs again, so there are proportionately larger numbers of people with LRMs equipped than before the buff. I think a slight tweak in missile speed to 150 m/s may be the beast way to balance it out again. But I also see the point of the other players who use LRMS and have been waiting for buff for a while. Also LRMs were not hitting fast lights, that had to change, and speeding up missiles was probably the easiest way to solve that. The truth is you have to play smart, and the truth is also that some maps are an LRM heaven and some are brawler or sniper heaven. Use ECM, AMS, cover and be smart, ,move in groups, kill scouts and call targets, even to Pugs, they often listen.

[Dracol]

Tripod, on 20 March 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

I was in an ac2/dual large laser dragon trying to stop a spider and firestarter from capping mid. there were a few heavies and assaults with me (battlemaster, 4ac5cheeseaphract and some others I dont remember as well as a centurion) that occassionally popped out to help. but the first time I popped out, I fired at the guys in cap a bit, saw the stalker in the back (far side of the caldera but still inside of it) and ran back down the ridge. half a second later I heard lrm warning, turned to see where they were going while running 81kph perpendicular to them. they came over the ridge, turned left into me and instantly cored me. Pretty sure it was two blobs of 60 lrms from two separate boats

Also for the every time I peeked part, it happened twice on the same map. First time I got cored instantly so I couldnt peek again

second match an lrm boat took off an arm after I peeked and ran and I moved about 45 degrees around the caldera and shot again, as soon as I got on radar he turned and fired again, taking off most of my CT, at which point I just gave up and hid somewhere in the back to stay alive while they slowly capped out while lrming our team to death

Ah... da Dragon..... favorite mech of mine but alas it suffers from a huge snout. Imho, the coring out of your mech has more to do with its design and less with the missile buff.

Now, with the AC/2 build, you could replace the large laser with an ER large laser and attempt to stay at about 800m to 1000m away from your targets. This would give you amble time to gain cover from LRMs.

The 500 m or so range fighting across the caldera is not a prime range for Dragons in my experience.

Edited by Dracol, 20 March 2014 - 01:45 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Tripod, on 20 March 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

you can't be serious

getting hit by 200 out 300 lrms (this is assuming there are about 6 ams in the area and the lrms themselves come in a stream rather than all at once) still instantly puts that mech out of the fight

you say use cover, try using cover on caustic valley. The entire center of the map provides none and the cover on the edge is so far apart that it can only be utilized by mechs going over 120kph unless they just plan on sitting there all game until the enemy wins by caps

this perk makes scouting useless since you don't have to scout. Having a scout hiding at the edge of enemy lines SPOTTING the enemy without them noticing and having lrms rain down because of him is perfectly fine (this is the good thing you were talking about, the one that worked fine before). Having lrms magically track for no reason because somebody has a perk and took the time to click the r button on someone he can't even see anymore is not

I don't even see why lrms were buffed, seeing anyone that knew what they were doing could easily put out 400-800 damage a game in the LRM stalker. now you can put out 600-1000 no problem

So in other words, you are fussing about some people are testing the new changes, and thus want a knee jerk reaction to something that will settle down over time.

Dude, grow up and get a clue before you try to balance something this complicated.

[Lightfoot]

They need to buff Adv Target Decay. It doesn't seem to work right anymore. I'll get a lock and it drops in a second, then come back for a second and drop again, etc. never saw that behavior before.

Besides which, LRMs are actually fire-and-forget missiles in Battletech. There is no target decay with LRMs.

Currently half the missiles never hit unless someone is in plain sight so I think Adv Target Decay is not having the effect you think it is.

[7R1P0D]

Nick Makiaveli, on 20 March 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

So in other words, you are fussing about some people are testing the new changes, and thus want a knee jerk reaction to something that will settle down over time.

Dude, grow up and get a clue before you try to balance something this complicated.

I've always had issues with the advanced target decay perk

it just seemed to be a way to completely make a valid tactic (breaking LoS from missiles) useless to a degree from no reason. before I wasn't extremely mad, since only a few missiles (10 or so) would hit before the decay wore off and I'd be safe from the other 50 which would stop tracking and barely miss. Now because of the speed buff, all 60 missiles (or more depending on the number of boats) hit before the decay wears off. this isn't a knee jerk reaction to a complicated problem, if it was I'd just yell about bring lrms to where they were before. Instead I found what was causing the problem (missiles hitting me when they shouldn't and usually wouldn't without the use of this perk) and asked to change that, since it was already an issue

hell if that one guy says it somehow makes him better with SSRMs (I have no idea how since SSRMs wouldn't hit if they left your LoS anyway, unless he just meant lights circling his assault and him relocking when they come back around) then why not just make it lose lock for long enough for the lrms to stop tracking (like 1/10 of a second) and then relock for the full time

lrms were fine before except for in the case of small numbers of them which instantly got shot down by ams

big blobs of hundreds of lrms were always completely viable and all this patch did from what I can see is make them hit people who break sight BEFORE YOU EVEN LAUNCH as long as you have this one perk and are within 600 meters

[CarlBar]

Here's the thing. When this was put in game, (i.e. before the buff), anyone who didn't have crud for brain could and WOULD break LoS as soon as they got the warning ans the lock would die without it before the missiles arrived. Except for making people hide behind cover non- ATD boosted missiles where pure and utter crud before. Now the boost to missile speed mean running behind cover is a lot less viable and so your that much more likely to take the hit.

The issue of course is that since LRM's no longer need ATD to get hit's, ATD just drastically increases their effectiveness I'm not sure i'd call that totally overpowered in most circumstances, (there's a real issue with AMS scaling mind, but that's a separate topic), but now that they've made LRM useful without it i won;t object to a nerf.