108 replies to this topic

[Chal]

First guys, to those serving, thanks for your service. I retired in 05 after 22 years, enjoying it.


I cant see a subscription on this title nor the justification for the package levels in the current shape the game is in. People caught up in the frenzy for a sub model or a legendary pack are lost right now in my eyes, sure it is their money, and they will use that excuse to defend themselves but the game is simply not ready, nowhere near, and the packages do not include even the barest minimum worth the cost outlay.

Subscription aside, which SHOULD override even the legendary purchase because you are taking stock in the company, that aside lets look at the lack of package perks. all should include monthly MC, subscription should include the highest monthly MC but none of the payment models of this *cough* F2P game include this simple mandatory perk, among others, such as unlimited customization, paint, refitting, max mech bays etc.

Those items make the sub and the other packages worth the cost, right now since they are NOT in i simply wont take the chance they never will be or the current dev mindset will be left as is.

The new car smell of the package release will pass, and i think quite a few will question their purchases

I would love to plunk down 120 on a legendary, but sadly that package IS NOT legendary, nor is the subscription model.

Just my retired military opinion folks.

[Jaegs]

You have to factor in the mental aspect of a change like this as well. This would mean that every time I load into the game for the first time that day my wallet takes a hit. Yes I prepaid for it, but if that day now "counts" I won't want to log in unless I'm sure I'll have lots of time to play. Maybe I have only a couple of hours and that hit is enough to make me think I should play something else instead. This kind of thing could hurt the player base.

I'm not sure on this, its just something to think about. It creates a negative incentive to log in in my opinion which even as slight as it is, is a crazy bad idea.

WoW had a great way to suck people back into playing it called "Rest XP". What it did was when you didn't play for a bit you would build up this bonus meter that would DOUBLE your XP gain when you came back to play. Perhaps subscribers could have this feature. A meter that builds up over time not played (but paid for) that grants a bit MORE xp and money per round for a short bit. Even higher than the normal bonus. This would create huge positive incentive to return to the game and play again!

I think such a feature for subscribers would fit perfectly with the idea that subscribers pay to progress faster because they have less free time. This would keep you progressing, in a way, even on days you can't play.

[GHQCommander]

Star Trek Online had timed ones. That works great, timer stops when log off.

Battlestar Galactica Online does not, timer continues when your offline, its total rip off in my opinion. They took that too far.

Star Trek Online then switched to a percentage system where you get a bonus, using your boosts capacity i.e. "10,000 XP" with say 200 XP being giving as extra, from your 10,000. That also works great because you buy the boost and know exactly what your getting. You know it is coming too you sooner or later.

That is a great approach.

For MW:O, I just hope they don't continue the timer offline for boosts. Talk about pushing people into playing and putting things on hold in their life to make the most out of a boost. This type of approach does not belong in the world anymore, not with all we know about the effects of games and internet.

[Mahws]

Jaegs, on 19 June 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

You have to factor in the mental aspect of a change like this as well. This would mean that every time I load into the game for the first time that day my wallet takes a hit. Yes I prepaid for it, but if that day now "counts" I won't want to log in unless I'm sure I'll have lots of time to play. Maybe I have only a couple of hours and that hit is enough to make me think I should play something else instead. This kind of thing could hurt the player base.

I'm not sure on this, its just something to think about. It creates a negative incentive to log in in my opinion which even as slight as it is, is a crazy bad idea.

WoW had a great way to suck people back into playing it called "Rest XP". What it did was when you didn't play for a bit you would build up this bonus meter that would DOUBLE your XP gain when you came back to play. Perhaps subscribers could have this feature. A meter that builds up over time not played (but paid for) that grants a bit MORE xp and money per round for a short bit. Even higher than the normal bonus. This would create huge positive incentive to return to the game and play again!

I think such a feature for subscribers would fit perfectly with the idea that subscribers pay to progress faster because they have less free time. This would keep you progressing, in a way, even on days you can't play.

A good argument, but from my experience it runs in the other direction.

Think of it this way, I'm sitting at the purchase screen, looking at a month of premium. That's $10, but what if my schedule gets busy again? What if I don't have the time to play? It's not like I can't play withouth buying it, I'll just get a bit less XP/Money for my matches. It creates an incentive for people not to hit that buy button when they otherwise would because people simply don't like the uncertainty. It's easier to log in and play a few matches and have a day cut off your premium than it is to buy premium thinking you won't use most of it, money you've already spent is valued a lot less than money you've yet to spend.

Daily, or three day boosts seem like a good counter to this on the surface, but smaller repeat purchases are a major turn-off for most players, in percieved value for money but primarily in percieved value for time spent. When you find out that you've got enough unexpected free time to get a few matches in after work for the first time in a busy week you don't want to spend time buying premium, you want to get straight in and play, make the most of that rare and valuable time.

The best way to look at this proposal is this: People want to be able to pre-buy premium time. Give me the options to buy 30 days of premium or a pack of 30 one day premium boosts that I can use when I want and there's not question of which of the two I'd choose, even if it cost more.

Will this method lose them income from the frequent user market? Debatable, I'd argue that the kinds of people who consistently buy premium boosts play frequently enough that there'd be little difference between them. But more importantly I'd argue that the vast majority of players who are unwilling to drop money on subscriptions would be far more willing to buy packs. Use it or lose it subscription may be the industry standard for MMO's, but for a free to play game, where we're paying for a bonus rather than access, is a completely different product. Die-hard players will always spend a lot, but the purchasing power of all those less frequent players is a market that will remain untapped if you don't tailor your products to offer options that are attractive from where they stand.

TL;DR: Think of it as buying a pack of 30 one day subscriptions and consider how much more attractive that would be to the casual (usually non-purchasing) portion of a F2P games population than Use-It-Or-Lose it monthly or multiple spur-of-the-moment 1 day purchases.

[The Vogfather]

Being where i work i have a good idea of what it takes to run something like this.. And seeing that the average mmo (even though really, this isn't one) costs 15-18 a month and technically, its not a required feature of the game. i think $10 a month is a fair price.. as far as the timer only being on "when playing" lets be realistic here. at the end of the day they are a company out to make money just like anyone else. just simply think that any time that you were not playing as a donation to keep the game going. To make a "per day" system sounds great but really those transaction charges on credit cards and PayPal add up.. To even set it up and implement it would be an extra thing that would detract form the focus of the devs from the meat and potatoes of the game.. and i my friend like meat!

edited for clarity

Edited by The Vogfather, 19 June 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[WalkingDeathBot]

This has been brought up in WoT countless times. Let's be honest, PGI is here to make money, and who can blame them. On the positive side I have never seen devs listen to their player base as much as these guys, even Paul. So yeah they might get some cash of us for boosted days that we don't use, however, buy things like the founder mech and they never go away.

Good work to PGI and I like your bussiness model and I hope all the money you just made off the Founders packs get the game moving at full speed.

[Sam Slade]

$10 a month is really cheap... personally I'd be happy if they did billing in one day blocks. I'd still log in even if it was only for one game... smart thing for them to do would be steal the 'x2 xp for first win of the day' idea.

[Ian]

Quote

The best way to look at this proposal is this: People want to be able to pre-buy premium time. Give me the options to buy 30 days of premium or a pack of 30 one day premium boosts that I can use when I want and there's not question of which of the two I'd choose, even if it cost more.

That's a great idea. I wouldn't expect them to cost the same though. I know your next thought "why not?". Well two reasons:
First there would be zero incentive to buy the 30 day pack. Everyone would buy the 30 single day packs just in case they missed a day.

Second and this is related to the first, they need to make a certain amount of money to make this game profitable. Since they will make less money over say a 3 month period if you are only paying for the days you play vs the guy who buys 3 months of play time straight, they will need to make more money per day you actually play. I don't know how much more. Thats up to the folks who run the business model for MWO. Heck they may decide its the same, in which case everyone will go with the second option.

Lets say a 30 day pass cost $10, a 1 day pass cost $3, and 30 1 day passes cost $20. That seems reasonable to me. How about you?

Quote

smart thing for them to do would be steal the 'x2 xp for first win of the day' idea.

I second this. I know tons of people who log in to WoT to 'run their doubles' and play every tank they own till each one has gotten its double xp for the day.


These are just my opinions, but I ran a very successful business for many years.

Edited by Ian, 19 June 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[Ajion]

I support this thinking, vote from me.

[Ajion]

Chal, on 19 June 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

First guys, to those serving, thanks for your service. I retired in 05 after 22 years, enjoying it.


I cant see a subscription on this title nor the justification for the package levels in the current shape the game is in. People caught up in the frenzy for a sub model or a legendary pack are lost right now in my eyes, sure it is their money, and they will use that excuse to defend themselves but the game is simply not ready, nowhere near, and the packages do not include even the barest minimum worth the cost outlay.

Subscription aside, which SHOULD override even the legendary purchase because you are taking stock in the company, that aside lets look at the lack of package perks. all should include monthly MC, subscription should include the highest monthly MC but none of the payment models of this *cough* F2P game include this simple mandatory perk, among others, such as unlimited customization, paint, refitting, max mech bays etc.

Those items make the sub and the other packages worth the cost, right now since they are NOT in i simply wont take the chance they never will be or the current dev mindset will be left as is.

The new car smell of the package release will pass, and i think quite a few will question their purchases

I would love to plunk down 120 on a legendary, but sadly that package IS NOT legendary, nor is the subscription model.

Just my retired military opinion folks.

Yeah, but the $ 80 dollar for in-game currency is, if u bought the Elite Founder. It is actually a semi win , cause u get $80 dollar worth in game currency + 2 month of premium. It only would matter after those 2 month, but at least u would keep the the $80 in game value to play with, and most playing WILL be done in the first month anyways, unless u are hardcore.

[ScientificMethod]

I would love to see this... +1 OP

[Veliah Truard]

Yes yes yes, please yes. This makes so much sense. +1!

[Buddah]

Great idea thanks for posting it, love it, most of us have erratic work or school schedules. Also very
happy to see that the dev's saw the thread and posted they looking into it, or had already been looking into it.

[TLBFestus]

Bryan Ekman, on 19 June 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Premium accounts with be offered for a variety of time slices from 1 day to 1 year. Details forthcoming.

This will help with those who have erratic schedules. We are listening, and I appreciate this feedback as it opens our eyes to edge cases.

This is VERY good of them to look into. As a business model, the $10/month plan is something the Devs will like, as it assures a regular steady income for the game.

Using only a day by day model that allows "non-paying" days, extends the payment for players convenience but brings some instability to the cash flow, so it would be less desirable for the Devs.

IF they offer a variety of options, then it would be feasible as there still would be a steady monthly income supplemented by people who elect different, if slightly more costly, options along the lines that Ian suggested;

Ian, on 19 June 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

A few different methods would be good. However I really would expect the less time you are paying for in increments, the more it will cost you.

$10 a month straight.
$30 for 30 days play time, tracked by the day. Thanks five by five
$1 for a five hour block.
Seems fair to me. Technically it means the $30 or $1 are better deals. VERY few people are going to play 1/3 of the time.
But it really is up to the Devs. They need the game to be profitable.

I would believe, as I said above that the "purchase by day or hour" options would have to cost MORE than a monthly subscription though in order to encourage that steady cash flow that is needed.

Still, it could work out to be win-win for everyone.

[XIRUSPHERE]

The question is from a business model standpoint is it worth making such an alteration for such cases. From a common sense standpoint; is such action really a problem to an adult making a wage at the stated 10 dollars a month or so for said boost.

From what I am percieving so far it would seem that they will treat the ingame currency just like gold and put in place a structure for trading these credits for game time in varied allotments.

Edited by XIRUSPHERE, 19 June 2012 - 08:16 PM.

[Jadel Blade]

Chal, on 19 June 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

First guys, to those serving, thanks for your service. I retired in 05 after 22 years, enjoying it.


I cant see a subscription on this title nor the justification for the package levels in the current shape the game is in. People caught up in the frenzy for a sub model or a legendary pack are lost right now in my eyes, sure it is their money, and they will use that excuse to defend themselves but the game is simply not ready, nowhere near, and the packages do not include even the barest minimum worth the cost outlay.

Subscription aside, which SHOULD override even the legendary purchase because you are taking stock in the company, that aside lets look at the lack of package perks. all should include monthly MC, subscription should include the highest monthly MC but none of the payment models of this *cough* F2P game include this simple mandatory perk, among others, such as unlimited customization, paint, refitting, max mech bays etc.

Those items make the sub and the other packages worth the cost, right now since they are NOT in i simply wont take the chance they never will be or the current dev mindset will be left as is.

The new car smell of the package release will pass, and i think quite a few will question their purchases

I would love to plunk down 120 on a legendary, but sadly that package IS NOT legendary, nor is the subscription model.

Just my retired military opinion folks.

What a weird post. I dont think I agree with any of it.

How is there a frenzy for a sub model. People here are just proposing ideas that might suit the more casual or busy gamer. Its hardly a frenzy. And why would anyone need to defend themselves? We payed money for a game we are excited about .. its hardly worth defending.

What makes you say the game is nowhere near ready? I would say its quite near ready ..about 6 weeks near. In fact I would pay my $10 a month to play the one map in all the videos.

The packages ALL include far more than the barest minimum worth the cost outlay. The first two are not even debatable, the legendary while not quite as good value is just a digital collectors edition really and is worth it to the fans.

The entire rest of the post is bizarre. The parts of it that are actually understandable are just plain weird. And then you finish with Just my retired military opinion ... um ... why? What could that possibly have to do with anything.

What I think you are saying is you dont have $10 spare to spend on gaming? While sad, the great thing for you is that its not a problem. F2P is your saviour! If the bonus items arent to your liking then dont pay.

Honestly its the same concept for this entire thread. Its $10 a month.. its nothing. If you are going to away for a month then dont pay for that month. (its hard to claim poor when you are hitting up europe for a month).

[abetterpilot]

I think in the long run this game will wind up in a different category that most others.
As long as it looks pretty, and is fun, they could stop introducing new stuff and the fan base would still be willing to pay a low monthly fee to play.
Other games need to keep providing new things to keep interest alive, I dont see that happening in a Battletech game as long as it is built to appeal to both cannon lovers and the normal PC gamer as this looks to be.
That where updating Mercs4 failed in the end to bring in/back new players, I still play it because I like it, not because it was ever a great Battletech game.
As long as its a good game people will be playing even if it ever came to a point where everyone had maxed out on all the skills.
If the games good I dont need new things all the time to keep me.
Sure, when it starts looking like mario bros after 10 years I want new eye candy, but thats all I need, not a constant barrage of new items.

[PimpChimp]

Mali ki, on 19 June 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Makes sense too me. Considering I work 12 hour days/nights this would help me out too.

Same here, exact same

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

regardless of how much fun I have with it, tribes ascend is a failure as a game and is also a competitive flop due to weapon and class imbalances(albiet the small competitive community has made do very well with what they have) . however I did like the way they handled the exp gain.

[Hikaru]

/sign

I'd actually prefer 60 days on a per-day basis than 90 days concurrent, in a heartbeat.