517 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

(I wanted to make this a Poll, but either I am too dumb to figure out how to make one, or naive enough to believe a public forum was a good place for gathering consensus)

Paul said autocannons are getting an adjustment, what do you think it should be and why? (Note these changes only apply to autocannons, not other projectile weapons like Gauss and PPC).

• Reduce maximum range from 3x to 2x
  
• Reduce projectile speeds
  
• Increase Cooldown (lower rate of fire)
  
• Burst fire (beam-like damage)
  
• Reduce Ammo per ton
  
• Increase critical slots by 1
  
• Recoil (based on impulse)
  
• Ammo location requirements (ammo has to be in same component or adjacent component)
  
• Convergence (based on weapon tonnage)
  
• Increase drop-off rate of autocannon rounds (from Coralld)

[Xeven]

If anything AC20 needs to have projectile speed increased. Id leave it as is other than that. I really don't want all the weapons to just be the same thing with a different graphic

[Tastian]

Reduce Range from 3x to 2x: I wholeheartedly agree with this one. I have never understood why ACs get special treatment.

Reduce Projectile Speeds: They are fine.

Increase Cooldown: I'd like if AC2s getting increased a bit. They fire so quickly they out-dps AC5s and have close to the same dps as AC10s.

Burst Fire: Maybe. I wouldn't mind trying this out. I'd love to see an accuracy over time like (cone of fire that increases or decreases) Borderlands does this brilliantly imho.

Reduce Ammo per ton: No.

Increase Critical Slots: No.

Recoil: Possibly. I'd have to see this in action.

Ammo location requirements: Although this has always made me laugh (how do you get ammo from your right leg to your left arm?) I'll say no.

Convergence: I'd love to see this fixed. Instant convergence of pinpoint weapons is a huge problem imho. Convergence over time (aiming) would be great.

[Trauglodyte]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 21 March 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

(I wanted to make this a Poll, but either I am too dumb to figure out how to make one, or naive enough to believe a public forum was a good place for gathering consensus)

Paul said autocannons are getting an adjustment, what do you think it should be and why? (Note these changes only apply to autocannons, not other projectile weapons like Gauss and PPC).

• Reduce maximum range from 3x to 2x
  
• Reduce projectile speeds
  
• Increase Cooldown (lower rate of fire)
  
• Burst fire (beam-like damage)
  
• Reduce Ammo per ton
  
• Increase critical slots by 1
  
• Recoil (based on impulse)
  
• Ammo location requirements (ammo has to be in same component or adjacent component)
  
• Convergence (based on weapon tonnage)

1- Reducing maximum range from 3x to 2.5x
1a - Recalculate extreme range so that the next larger AC doesn't outperform the one above (ie, the AC20 shouldn't out damage the AC10 at range, so on and so forth).

2- Drop AC5 velocity down to around 1200 and AC2 velocity down to 1500-1600; Gauss Rifle stays the same

3- Increase the cool down on the smaller ACs. The AC20 at 4dps is fine. The others should scale lower like Sm and Md Lasers vs Lrg Lasers and the smaller SRM/LRM launchers vs the 6 and 20.

4- Ammo needs to be dropped to TT levels. It would go a long way to preventing people from going ape shit with their ACs like they're MGs (they're not)

5- Recoil is needed to be equal to or near (60-75%) of the screen shake caused by the same ACs

6- AC2s, AC5s, and AC10s should be added to the PPC and Lrg Laser ghost heat tables

7- (THE most important) ACs need to behave in a burst fire mode WHEN they're put in a location whose bore is smaller than the weapon being used. In other words, if I put an AC20 in a slot dedicated to an AC2, I should fire 10 2 damage projectiles instead of one 20 point round. This would make it so that the pure AC builds maintain their flavor while offering up some differentiations among AC manufacturers (fluff added without making a sweeping addition to the inventory).

Edited by Trauglodyte, 21 March 2014 - 10:06 AM.

[Bilbo]

Trauglodyte, on 21 March 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

...
4- Ammo needs to be dropped to TT levels. It would go a long way to preventing people from going ape shit with their ACs like they're MGs (they're not)
...

I'd agree but I'm already only carrying 2 tons for an AC/20. That's only 14 shots as it stands now. If you are going to do something about the extreme ammo loads, a greater chance to explode would be a better route in my opionon.

[AlmightyAeng]

Honestly, after the LRM buff, why the HELL would he be looking at nerfing autocannons? Any change to the 'firing' aspect of autocannons I disagree with...if they HAVE to screw with it, leave the actual speed and rate of the weapons alone.

Buff SRM's...and suddenly all the weapons systems (except pulse lasers) all have a place. *facepalm PGI*

Edited by Ghost Badger, 27 March 2014 - 06:19 AM.

[Ngamok]

Trauglodyte, on 21 March 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

1- Reducing maximum range from 3x to 2.5x
1a - Recalculate extreme range so that the next larger AC doesn't outperform the one above (ie, the AC20 shouldn't out damage the AC10 at range, so on and so forth).

2- Drop AC5 velocity down to around 1200 and AC2 velocity down to 1500-1600; Gauss Rifle stays the same

3- Increase the cool down on the smaller ACs. The AC20 at 4dps is fine. The others should scale lower like Sm and Md Lasers vs Lrg Lasers and the smaller SRM/LRM launchers vs the 6 and 20.

4- Ammo needs to be dropped to TT levels. It would go a long way to preventing people from going ape shit with their ACs like they're MGs (they're not)

5- Recoil is needed to be equal to or near (60-75%) of the screen shake caused by the same ACs

6- AC2s, AC5s, and AC10s should be added to the PPC and Lrg Laser ghost heat tables

1- I'd rather they just go to 2x and would force closer fights or everyone running hot PPCs.

2- The AC feel fine to me really.

3- the AC/20 has a 5.00 DPS and all the others have a lower DPS. Think the cool downs are fine.

4- This would force people to start bringing their back up weapons or just make those guys who bring the 4x AC/5s to just run out faster.

5- Recoil is missing. It would make this game harder but might drive people away because of how the world is used to todays games.

6- Heh, very interesting. This would go a long ways to make people rage and make the game slower like the old 10s rule because of all the extra heat.

[Varent]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 21 March 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

(I wanted to make this a Poll, but either I am too dumb to figure out how to make one, or naive enough to believe a public forum was a good place for gathering consensus)

Paul said autocannons are getting an adjustment, what do you think it should be and why? (Note these changes only apply to autocannons, not other projectile weapons like Gauss and PPC).

• Reduce maximum range from 3x to 2x
  
• Reduce projectile speeds
  
• Increase Cooldown (lower rate of fire)
  
• Burst fire (beam-like damage)
  
• Reduce Ammo per ton
  
• Increase critical slots by 1
  
• Recoil (based on impulse)
  
• Ammo location requirements (ammo has to be in same component or adjacent component)
  
• Convergence (based on weapon tonnage)

1) range would be a good item to play with, realistically they should consider changing balistic range to 2.5 and raising energy range and missle range. 2.5 would be good for energy range. Missle range maybe just a minor increase.

2) Projectile speeds lowered creates hit detection issues.

3) Not sure they need it. Also would only hurt brawlers, wich is probly a bad thing.

4) Burst fire could be interesting but if overdone could lead to imbalance with lasers. Also would take away from the different feel of weapons. There have been many suggestions along the lines of different manufacturers of weapons, some burst, some single slug, Having both in the game, one with shorter cooldown, one with longer, or heat differences, ranges, ammo, etc. could add both balance and more interesting variation.

5) Good possibility, but might be OP with community warfare depending how they work resources.

6) Would break stock mechs. Create other problems. Probly not a good idea.

7) Wouldnt have the effect you want, Wouldnt hurt jump snipers, just brawlers and fire supports. Not really a good idea.

8) Could be interesting actually. Might make case more worthwhile.

9) convergence works against hit detection.

[Madw0lf]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 21 March 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

(I wanted to make this a Poll, but either I am too dumb to figure out how to make one, or naive enough to believe a public forum was a good place for gathering consensus)

Paul said autocannons are getting an adjustment, what do you think it should be and why? (Note these changes only apply to autocannons, not other projectile weapons like Gauss and PPC).

• Reduce maximum range from 3x to 2x
  
• Reduce projectile speeds
  
• Increase Cooldown (lower rate of fire)
  
• Burst fire (beam-like damage)
  
• Reduce Ammo per ton
  
• Increase critical slots by 1
  
• Recoil (based on impulse)
  
• Ammo location requirements (ammo has to be in same component or adjacent component)
  
• Convergence (based on weapon tonnage)

If anything is done, convergence, or something similar, would be best. It would be a game-wide balancer and increase the over all skill level. But its not happening.

Reduce ammo per ton, ok. Not to TT levels but drop it by like 10% maybe.
Recoil would be cool to see.
Ammo location requirements, not sure about it but its an interesting idea! id have to put my AC5 ammo in my arms or torsos on my FB, which would reduce the number of other things I could cram there.

Trauglodyte, on 21 March 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

1- Reducing maximum range from 3x to 2.5x
1a - Recalculate extreme range so that the next larger AC doesn't outperform the one above (ie, the AC20 shouldn't out damage the AC10 at range, so on and so forth).

2- Drop AC5 velocity down to around 1200 and AC2 velocity down to 1500-1600; Gauss Rifle stays the same

3- Increase the cool down on the smaller ACs. The AC20 at 4dps is fine. The others should scale lower like Sm and Md Lasers vs Lrg Lasers and the smaller SRM/LRM launchers vs the 6 and 20.

4- Ammo needs to be dropped to TT levels. It would go a long way to preventing people from going ape shit with their ACs like they're MGs (they're not)

5- Recoil is needed to be equal to or near (60-75%) of the screen shake caused by the same ACs

6- AC2s, AC5s, and AC10s should be added to the PPC and Lrg Laser ghost heat tables

7- (THE most important) ACs need to behave in a burst fire mode WHEN they're put in a location whose bore is smaller than the weapon being used. In other words, if I put an AC20 in a slot dedicated to an AC2, I should fire 10 2 damage projectiles instead of one 20 point round. This would make it so that the pure AC builds maintain their flavor while offering up some differentiations among AC manufacturers (fluff added without making a sweeping addition to the inventory).

Man, those ACs mustve been peeing in your Cheerios lately

[Lyoto Machida]

Tastian, on 21 March 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Reduce Range from 3x to 2x: I wholeheartedly agree with this one. I have never understood why ACs get special treatment.

Reduce Projectile Speeds: They are fine.

Increase Cooldown: I'd like if AC2s getting increased a bit. They fire so quickly they out-dps AC5s and have close to the same dps as AC10s.

Burst Fire: Maybe. I wouldn't mind trying this out. I'd love to see an accuracy over time like (cone of fire that increases or decreases) Borderlands does this brilliantly imho.

Reduce Ammo per ton: No.

Increase Critical Slots: No.

Recoil: Possibly. I'd have to see this in action.

Ammo location requirements: Although this has always made me laugh (how do you get ammo from your right leg to your left arm?) I'll say no.

Convergence: I'd love to see this fixed. Instant convergence of pinpoint weapons is a huge problem imho. Convergence over time (aiming) would be great.

My sentiments exactly...100%.

[AlmightyAeng]

Lyoto Machida, on 21 March 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

My sentiments exactly...100%.

Ditto. Those sound reasonable.

[DaZur]

1.) Ranges stay the same.
2.) Adjust damage fall-off to correct extreme range over-performance (Trog's AC/20 - 10 example)
3.) Increase ballistic parabolic fall-off. (this allows ranges to remain the same)
4.) Ballistic fire should result in recoil shudder w/recticle rebound.
5.) Re-calibrate reload times so times are linear relative to caliber.
6.) Lastly... because I'm a poor listener: Remove the flipping Gauss charge and simply increase it's cycle-time.

[Voivode]

I like your ammo location idea, that's an interesting concept and really doesn't "nerf" the autocannons, it just makes their inherent vulnerability a larger consideration. Also, it will cause a huge uptick in C.A.S.E. use, which is always a bonus since that item is so prevalent in BT and hardly used in MWO.

I think splitting damage is something that should be approached with caution.

Reducing ammo could be a good idea, especially for the smaller autocannons.

Good luck selling the idea of expanding ghost heat to cross weapon types lol.

Edited by Voivode, 21 March 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Kommisar]

IMHO: They should drop ghost heat (boon to energy weapons!) and drop to x2 on the range. Then, after taking a look at results,take a look at rate of fire.

What we will see: Project speeds reduced.

edited for a typo there.

Edited by Kommisar, 21 March 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

I like burst fire both because the spread that would naturally occur would lessen the pinpoint damage somewhat and because I just think it would look cooler.

I also think convergence would help too and would in general be a good game mechanic.

[FactorlanP]

Burst fire, without a doubt.

[Joseph Mallan]

I am still firmly in the no to burst fire camp.

[DaZur]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 21 March 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

I like burst fire both because the spread that would naturally occur would lessen the pinpoint damage somewhat and because I just think it would look cooler.

I also think convergence would help too and would in general be a good game mechanic.

FactorlanP, on 21 March 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

Burst fire, without a doubt.

While I agree that burst fire would mitigate front-loaded damage problems... The fact that it simply mimics beam damage application albeit with a different particle effect is my sticking point.

For me it's e diversity thing right or wrong... There's a place for front-loaded weapons IMHO, they just need adjustment / balancing.

[WarHippy]

Quote

• Reduce maximum range from 3x to 2x

I would be ok with this.

Quote

Reduce projectile speeds

I would be ok with this for the AC/5 and AC/2, but the other ACs are fine(ish)

Quote

Increase Cooldown (lower rate of fire)

This might be ok, but I would want to see the numbers.

Quote

Burst fire (beam-like damage)

Please no I strongly dislike the idea of burst fire.

Quote

Reduce Ammo per ton

This doesn't really do anything beyond shortening the window in which the AC weapons are used, but does not do anything to address them being over powered assuming that they are.

Quote

Increase critical slots by 1

I'm sorry, but this is just a stupid idea and deserves zero consideration.

Quote

Recoil (based on impulse)

I like this idea, but it is hard to gauge without experiencing it.

Quote

Ammo location requirements (ammo has to be in same component or adjacent component)

I can't say I like this idea as it would mess with builds too much.

Quote

Convergence (based on weapon tonnage)

A cone of fire when firing multiple weapons that could be reduced by things like a targeting computer, or eliminated completely by firing one weapon at a time is something I strongly support.

[Eddrick]

Autocannons need to have thier own unique feel. Because, they are a unique weapon. To make them differant from PPC and Gauss Rifle, I recoment the "Burst Fire" approch. I'm not sure what to do about the specifics. But, Autocannons should be notisably differant from the rest.