47 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

soooooooooo
a damage boost wouldn't make them "op"
but a slight boost in how fast they move did make them "op"

interesting

note that slight to sandpit means 40%+

also i guess SRM got a slight nerf of 40%

and artillery got a slight buff of 400%

everything is done slightly around here

[Rashhaverak]

The people who thought that LRMs were fine were the people not playing them. LRMs were feared in Mechwarrior in the TT, and they were mostly ignored in this game. I'm glad that they are finally starting to be competitive with all of the AC2/5/10 and UAC5 builds.

[Sandpit]

dario03, on 23 March 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

The increase in AMS range barely does a thing to the ~46% speed increased LRMs.
I didn't speak about anything you said about slight speed boost being op while a damage buff isn't because
1. The speed boost wasn't slight.
2. In the post I qouted you didn't really say ANYthing.
3. unlike the speed boost we don't even know what the other guy meant by slight damage boost.

1. that's subjective but ok you don't feel it was slight, I do
2. sure thing
3. it's irrelevant because a speed boost causes QQ, a damage boost would do the same because now the meta humpers can't easily poptart an entire team into oblivion now

Mazzyplz, on 23 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

note that slight to sandpit means 40%+

also i guess SRM got a slight nerf of 40%

and artillery got a slight buff of 400%

everything is done slightly around here

Yea because anything I've said has anything to do with SRMs or Arty
gpclose try again

Oddly enough, I'm not the only one saying this. I'm not the only one who sees that most of the QQ comes from metahumping poptarts that are having to adapt their builds

Rashhaverak, on 23 March 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

The people who thought that LRMs were fine were the people not playing them. LRMs were feared in Mechwarrior in the TT, and they were mostly ignored in this game. I'm glad that they are finally starting to be competitive with all of the AC2/5/10 and UAC5 builds.

LRMs were "fine" because they didn't pose a threat to the metahumpers

Now that they do, it's "lurmageddon"

[Judas Priest XIII]

Mazzyplz, on 23 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

note that slight to sandpit means 40%+

also i guess SRM got a slight nerf of 40%

and artillery got a slight buff of 400%

everything is done slightly around here

+1 Internets to you my friend!

[dario03]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

1. that's subjective but ok you don't feel it was slight, I do
2. sure thing
3. it's irrelevant because a speed boost causes QQ, a damage boost would do the same because now the meta humpers can't easily poptart an entire team into oblivion now

1. Most things are subjective but I'm pretty sure most people don't think 46% increases is slight. If your bills went up 46% would you consider that slight?
2. It was a sure thing, you really didn't say anything that could of got a more detailed response from me.
3. It is not irrelevant because a damage boost and a speed boost are 2 very different things. The speed boost greatly increases the chance of hitting and makes it very easy to punish people for popping out for very short amounts of time since even if they get back into cover you will hit. Where as a damage increase would give you a larger alpha but you would need to aim for more open targets or wait for Narc.

[wanderer]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

LRMs were "fine" because they didn't pose a threat to the metahumpers

Now that they do, it's "lurmageddon"

This, basically. At any high level of play in MWO, people would laugh at you for taking a missile boat. It was the "scrub killer", because frankly, in 12v12 you were wasting most of your fire on cover, ECM, and the like, and vs. a team of high-ELO players, they already were doing what it took to avoid missiles.

They're still laughing, just not quite as hard as the higher accuracy from the speed increase means you have to be slightly more cautious. LRMs will now tag you if you're stupid.

I have a grand total of one death to saturation LRM fire. One. Since the patch, through the entire factional tournament. One. The number of people I have seen die to LRMs? Uncountable, and some of them were pants-on-head dumb.

I got four kills in one game because I happened to be far enough away that a pack of lights was orbiting the main group. I sat there for eight minutes lobbing missiles at them, None broke off. None of them came looking for the source of all the missiles coming down. Not them, not their team, nobody- and I was sitting a whopping 400m away. Two MPL's for point defense, fast-LRM-killers! Come and get me! We didn't have anything nearly as fast as their Jenner/Firestarter/Cicada bunch.

The situational awareness of that team was pathetic. Heck, I was close enough that if any of them had turned around- just one - I'd have been so busy trying not to have my back blown out that the rain would have ceased. Apparently, old habits die hard.

They did too. Think I dumped about a thousand LRMs down the lane, thirty at a time. Think about how long that takes. I was unmolested the entire time. That's me cycling the launchers 34 times, not including occasionally losing locks or having to switch in the process. I barely moved.

Until people have the brain cells to realize what I was doing and how easy it is to stop it, crying "LURMAGEDDON!" needs to have a sock stuffed in it.

[Khobai]

The player base seems split pretty evenly on the LRM debate... which means theyre exactly where they need to be

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 23 March 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

The player base seems split pretty evenly on the LRM debate... which means theyre exactly where they need to be

Except once you probe and question a little bit it becomes painfully obvious that the largest amount of QQ comes from the metahumpers that can't just sit in the same spot and poptart anymore.

I literally had a player say that LRMs are "op" because a trial mech shouldn't be able to do 1k damage and new players shouldn't be ale to do that much damage to him.....

Yea that's a "good" reason to nerf a weapon lol

[Khobai]

Quote

Except once you probe and question a little bit it becomes painfully obvious that the largest amount of QQ comes from the metahumpers that can't just sit in the same spot and poptart anymore.

Well theyre not even willing to compromise.

Like LRM speed is obviously not the problem. They go 175m/s. PPCs go 1500m/s. Anyone who thinks LRMs are too fast is an idiot.

I can however agree that LRM rate of fire is too fast. And that LRMs shake you around too much. And I would be willing to reduce their rate of fire and impulse in exchange for an increase in damage per missile. I think thats a "fair" compromise that actually addresses one of the real problems with LRMs.

Additionally I still think ECM needs to be fixed. Its been over a year and ECM is still causing tremendous balance issues that PGI continues to ignore. ECM should not grant blanket stealth. And LRMs should be balanced around ECM not granting stealth.

Edited by Khobai, 23 March 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 23 March 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Well theyre not even willing to compromise.

Like LRM speed is obviously not the problem. They go 175m/s. PPCs go 1500m/s. Anyone who thinks LRMs are too fast is an idiot.

I can however agree that LRM rate of fire is too fast. And that LRMs shake you around too much. And I would be willing to reduce their rate of fire and impulse in exchange for an increase in damage per missile. I think thats a "fair" compromise that actually addresses one of the real problems with LRMs.

Additionally I still think ECM needs to be fixed. Its been over a year and ECM is still causing tremendous balance issues that PGI continues to ignore. ECM should not grant blanket stealth. And LRMs should be balanced around ECM not granting stealth.

I don't agree with the RoF. I think it's in a pretty good spot all things considered but everything else I agree with

[BuSab]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

gpclose

I need my decoder ring updated.

[Sandpit]

BuSab, on 23 March 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

I need my decoder ring updated.

good post close

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't agree with the RoF. I think it's in a pretty good spot all things considered but everything else I agree with

The RoF is definitely an issue on mechs that can have 4+ LRM launchers. It basically means a constant stream of LRMs knocking you around. Its the MWO equivalent of stunlock. Stunlock is unbalanced in every other game. Its unbalanced in MWO too.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 23 March 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

The RoF is definitely an issue on mechs that can have 4+ LRM launchers. It basically means a constant stream of LRMs knocking you around. Its the MWO equivalent of stunlock. Stunlock is unbalanced in every other game. Its unbalanced in MWO too.

As you can do with
LL
ML
AC5
AC10
UAC5
AC2
MG
PPC

[Charons Little Helper]

Khobai, on 23 March 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

The RoF is definitely an issue on mechs that can have 4+ LRM launchers. It basically means a constant stream of LRMs knocking you around. Its the MWO equivalent of stunlock. Stunlock is unbalanced in every other game. Its unbalanced in MWO too.

Just take AMS. A single AMS will still shred the bulk of an LRM 5 chain (the increased AMS range didn't quite cancel out the speed boost for the target, but it makes ally AMS fire helping out more likely to help out some).

LRM shake is far from stunlock - you can still run for cover from the missiles even if your aim is screwed up some. If it's still a major issue - get Improved Gyros.

[Sandpit]

group ANY of those weapon 4+ and you can get a steady stream of fire easily (even with only 3 of them with most of those weapons)

[Astrocanis]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Sure thing, not like having to weed through 20 "new" QQs about LRMs not letting the PPC/AC "elites" continue being the only dominant tactic in the game.

Then don't weed through them? Just a thought. I'm sure there's at least one thread that would survive without your presence.

[Sandpit]

Astrocanis, on 23 March 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

Then don't weed through them? Just a thought. I'm sure there's at least one thread that would survive without your presence.

no sir, I'll give my opinion on it and my opinion is just as valid as yours so thanks but no thanks.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

LRMS the way they are now are necessary, as they are not op and are a much needed counter to long feared jump sniping ppc/ac meta.....I would personally bet that the majority of the people complaining have gotten lazy due to their previous ability to stand right out in the open without fear of any kind, then snipe people with ppc's/ac's that land nearly instantaneously....I think they are fine right where they are right now, if anything other weapons need a buff/fix like srm's and it would be nice if they got rid of the lame charge mechanic (worst mechanic ever out of any shooter ever made, if i was a general i would execute the engineer that created such a useless weapon) on the gause rifle and the useless ghost heat as on some maps i spend more time shut down eating shots than i do fighting.....but i know i have a better chance of giving birth to jesus...and I am a man....

Edited by Peekaboo I C JU, 23 March 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[Sandpit]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 23 March 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

I would personally bet that the majority of the people complaining have gotten lazy due to their previous ability to stand right out in the open without fear of any kind, then snipe people with ppc's/ac's that land nearly instantaneously....

ding ding ding!

I'm slowly but surely showing that in a LOT of these threads. Most of the QQ comes from exactly those players.