17 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

Right now LRM's are working at a level that they are close to being the same value as direct fire weapons. The Advanced Target Delay module could use a change though:

1.) The Target Delay module allows mechs allows the 3.5 second extra tracking time for LRM's that have been fired while the mech was exposed.
2.) After the mech goes into hiding the lock reticle change changes from RED to BLUE, meaning that any new missiles launched in the 3.5 second hiding window will miss, however those missiles in the air still have the lock for 3.5 seconds
3.) If the mech in hiding during the 3.5 second extended lock window gets spotted or comes out, the reticle goes Red and any new LRM's launched will lock again.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

Rhent, on 23 March 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

Right now LRM's are working at a level that they are close to being the same value as direct fire weapons. The Advanced Target Delay module could use a change though:

1.) The Target Delay module allows mechs allows the 3.5 second extra tracking time for LRM's that have been fired while the mech was exposed.
2.) After the mech goes into hiding the lock reticle change changes from RED to BLUE, meaning that any new missiles launched in the 3.5 second hiding window will miss, however those missiles in the air still have the lock for 3.5 seconds
3.) If the mech in hiding during the 3.5 second extended lock window gets spotted or comes out, the reticle goes Red and any new LRM's launched will lock again.

I strongly disagree

[Rhent]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 23 March 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

I strongly disagree

On what point and why?

You expose yourself, you fire, you get 2 locks and 2 missiles firing so you hide. During the 3.5 window both fire right when you hide, you get hit for 4 rather than 2 times. LRM's are balanced for damage now, should LRM's get the ability to double tap like UAC/5's without having someone actually spotting?

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

Spotters are a part of the game, if they remove spotters then they also have to remove LRM minimum range as well...otherwise it will be completely useless...learn how to play to your mechs advantage and stop complaining for nerfs when none are needed.....to nerf anything at this point would also nerf thinking, and then MWo couldn't claim to be "a thinking mans game" now could they?

Edited by Peekaboo I C JU, 23 March 2014 - 01:51 PM.

[Rhent]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 23 March 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Spotters are a part of the game, if they remove spotters then they also have to remove LRM minimum range as well...otherwise it will be completely useless...learn how to play to your mechs advantage and stop complaining for nerfs when none are needed.....to nerf anything at this point would also nerf thinking, and then MWo couldn't claim to be "a thinking mans game" now could they?

Where did I say spotters need to be removed? I did not state that. In fact I stated the exact opposite:
3.) If the mech in hiding during the 3.5 second extended lock window gets spotted or comes out, the reticle goes Red and any new LRM's launched will lock again.

What that statement means is that spotters are seriously needed. As long as that mech is spotted, new LRM volleys can be fired. And you would know that the lock has 3.5 seconds because it the reticle is red and is not blue.

So again, can you please state what you disagree with in those 3 basic statements and why?

As a LRM Boat and as a spotter, I want this. I would make spotting more useful AND it would allow boats to know not to fire their volley. As it stands now how often do you get a lock and fire and it was a bad lock and disappears and you spend your rounds. Now you at least know if you have a spotter when fired and will have 3.5 seconds to hit.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

Rhent, on 23 March 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Where did I say spotters need to be removed? I did not state that. In fact I stated the exact opposite:
3.) If the mech in hiding during the 3.5 second extended lock window gets spotted or comes out, the reticle goes Red and any new LRM's launched will lock again.

What that statement means is that spotters are seriously needed. As long as that mech is spotted, new LRM volleys can be fired. And you would know that the lock has 3.5 seconds because it the reticle is red and is not blue.

So again, can you please state what you disagree with in those 3 basic statements and why?

As a LRM Boat and as a spotter, I want this. I would make spotting more useful AND it would allow boats to know not to fire their volley. As it stands now how often do you get a lock and fire and it was a bad lock and disappears and you spend your rounds. Now you at least know if you have a spotter when fired and will have 3.5 seconds to hit.

The definition of spotting is to get locks for your teams LRMS, if you make it so that a LRM mech has to get its own locks then you in effect remove spotting/tag and narc now don't you? also making it so only your inbound missiles stay locked would only result in people hugging cover, firing then going back into cover, never ever engaging the enemy is brawling...it would in effect make LRMS useless...as the only time they could be used is if they were already locked, fired and in the air in the 2 seconds it takes you to get back into cover......nice try...learn tactics..you see, your goal is not to make them useful...it is to take them out of the game entirely.....

Edited by Peekaboo I C JU, 23 March 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[Helsbane]

Would you rather I bring Target Decay, or an Improved Arty Strike... Your choice....

[Rhent]

I did not state that anywhere. I stated very clearly and succinctly that I'm talking about the Advanced Target Delay Module and how that module works.

As to LRM's, someone has to be physically viewing a mech and have it targeted to get a lock. That is how the current game mechanics work as you are aware. Nowhere did I write that the LRM mech has to get its own lock.

I take English isn't your primary language and you are having problems reading this? The short of it is:

Delay module works as is for missiles that have been launched in the air, however once the mech that is targeted is hidden and no one has him locked you can't launch new missiles in the 3.5 second window again at him. Once the mech is spotted again by someone, then new missiles can be fired.

Helsbane, on 23 March 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Would you rather I bring Target Decay, or an Improved Arty Strike... Your choice....

For a stalker, Target Decay is worth more than Artillery Strike any day of the week. If you have more than 2 module slots, its a moot point.

Put it this way, should LRM's be able to double tap like a UAC/5 and fire at targets that are not able to be seen? That is the question.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

Rhent, on 23 March 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

I did not state that anywhere. I stated very clearly and succinctly that I'm talking about the Advanced Target Delay Module and how that module works.

As to LRM's, someone has to be physically viewing a mech and have it targeted to get a lock. That is how the current game mechanics work as you are aware. Nowhere did I write that the LRM mech has to get its own lock.

I take English isn't your primary language and you are having problems reading this? The short of it is:

Delay module works as is for missiles that have been launched in the air, however once the mech that is targeted is hidden and no one has him locked you can't launch new missiles in the 3.5 second window again at him. Once the mech is spotted again by someone, then new missiles can be fired.

oddly, i would also say English is not your first language as well.....as i clearly stated the mechanic you want could and WOULD be exploited....as locks do not happen instantly, and that mechanic would also make ECM mech completely immune to LRMS as all they would have to do is stick their head out, take a shot and get back behind something....the LRMS would never get a lock and would never get a chance to fire....as it usually just BARELY gets locks as it is before a mech goes into cover.....so what you want would make them miss 100% of the time which is unacceptable

[Rhent]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 23 March 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

oddly, i would also say English is not your first language as well.....as i clearly stated the mechanic you want could and WOULD be exploited....as locks do not happen instantly, and that mechanic would also make ECM mech completely immune to LRMS as all they would have to do is stick their head out, take a shot and get back behind something....the LRMS would never get a lock and would never get a chance to fire....as it usually just BARELY gets locks as it is before a mech goes into cover.....so what you want would make them miss 100% of the time which is unacceptable

Peekabu I've played with you in my LRM mech before. What you are writing is patently incorrect. As soon as a lock is given, most people fire if it appears that they will hit. They don't sit there and wait, and wait, and wait for the mech to go into cover.

If you are dealing with an ECM enabled mech, its going to take an exceedingly long time to lock unless your team bought TAG, NARC or lights w/ BAP/ECM to counter their ECM.

I get locks on ECM mechs without a problem. I don't know what your issue is on it? I bring an Artemis, ERPPC, and TAG when running a LRM boat and I don't have a problem hitting ECM mechs. Why do you?

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

there is really no point debating with you....your goal is to make LRMS useless and to waste umteen hours and 30k gxp for every player who has unlocked the module...your "mechanic" can and would be exploited exactly how i stated...don't like LRMS i hear COD is LRM free...go play it....

[Rhent]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 23 March 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

there is really no point debating with you....your goal is to make LRMS useless and to waste umteen hours and 30k gxp for every player who has unlocked the module...your "mechanic" can and would be exploited exactly how i stated...don't like LRMS i hear COD is LRM free...go play it....

So you think that it is exploitable because it takes you a long time to get ECM locks and now you are running away. People stay out in the open and they fire, they only take cover once they get the audible alarm.

What you write does not make a lot of sense now that LRM's have finally been fixed. You might as well be a 4 PPC stalker right after Hitreg got fixed arguing how don't touch the heat or damage on PPC's. What I'm talking about does not change a LRM's ability to hit, speed or damage, it simply prevents double tapping mechs that are hidden AND it would prevent LRM Boats from wasting rounds on mechs that have a short lock time left. Again how often do you fire a LRM volley at a target thats hidden by 450M and the target goes blanks as soon as you shot wasting your rounds?

Edited by Rhent, 23 March 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

"Arguing with a fool is like playing chess with a pigeon, The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, $hitS on the board and then struts around like it won the game"


I am simply choosing to not argue with a fool and instead I will play this game as it has just became fun again... Have fun playing forum troll while I play MWO..

Edited by Peekaboo I C JU, 23 March 2014 - 02:35 PM.

[Rhent]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 23 March 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

"Arguing with a fool is like playing chess with a pigeon, The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, $hitS on the board and then struts around like it won the game"


I am simply choosing to not argue with a fool and instead I will play this game as it has just became fun again... Have fun playing forum troll while I play MWO..

I'm in right now with my 3H tearing things up. I understand you lost your point and want to run.

[Rampancy]

Rhent, on 23 March 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

I'm in right now with my 3H tearing things up. I understand you lost your point and want to run.

Well for what it's worth, I think your idea is pretty good, and also a good way to provide more information to the user (especially if you extend the "blue" lock idea to non-module locks). And I have no idea where Peekaboo got so off-track. I've suggested in other threads that I think the module should be nerfed in some way-- as it stands now, if you're within 400 meters you can fire at somebody who's been completely out of LOS/spotting for a full second and STILL score a full salvo hit. Kind of ridiculous. I find your solution to actually be fairly... elegant. (:

Edited by RampancyTW, 23 March 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[Rhent]

RampancyTW, on 23 March 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Well for what it's worth, I think your idea is pretty good, and also a good way to provide more information to the user (especially if you extend the "blue" lock idea to non-module locks). And I have no idea where Peekaboo got so off-track. I've suggested in other threads that I think the module should be nerfed in some way-- as it stands now, if you're within 400 meters you can fire at somebody who's been completely out of LOS/spotting for a full second and STILL score a full salvo hit. Kind of ridiculous. I find your solution to actually be fairly... elegant. (:

Thanks. I get tired of wasting rounds on bad locks. I also know that people stay out until they hear that LRM alert and right now, more times than not they can't escape it, and I'm good with that. When you fire a LRM at an exposed mech at 650M whose a slow mover you should hit him as long as he says out in the open. Once he hides what you shot off should be able to hit him if the flight path resolves but you should'nt be able to shoot again until someone has a new lock.

[dario03]

I would just lower the time that the target stays locked without being spotted or narced. Knock it down to 1-1.25 seconds without modules and ~2 seconds with the ATD module. LRMs would still work more than fine if someone is spotting or the opponent is really in the open but no more of this I (or somebody) saw you for a split second so I get to rain 60 missles on you while you are behind a hill and moving. Or heck they could still do that, but just not from as far away.

Edited by dario03, 24 March 2014 - 02:58 AM.

[Artgathan]

The OP makes a good point I hadn't considered. With the 3.5 seconds of extra locking time, LRMs travel 612.5 meters. That's pretty far. Essentially it means if you're ~500m (accounting for the arc of the missiles) from a target you've locked and you fire just as you lose LOS on them, you'll still get a hit before the lock runs out.

If you're closer than 500m you can keep spamming for a few heartbeats before having to cut back and still get solid hits. Hmmm...