775 replies to this topic

[Aluminumfoiled]

Wolfways, on 02 April 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

It obviously doesn't affect us equally as it doesn't affect me at all.

If LRMs don't affect you I'm sending a ticket for hax You argue like a boater. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Wolfways]

MicroVent, on 02 April 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

If LRMs don't affect you I'm sending a ticket for hax You argue like a boater. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

lol boater...
All my mechs have stock weapons and i have two (Catapult, Stalker) with LRM's. Along with my Raven they are the mechs i rarely use.

[Kazuki Otori]

Tell ya what would solve a ton of these problems. A separate game mode or whatever called hardcore or some such, where you can only use stock variants. Bam. Done. Closer semblance of balance achieved.

[Kjudoon]

Kazuki Otori, on 02 April 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Tell ya what would solve a ton of these problems. A separate game mode or whatever called hardcore or some such, where you can only use stock variants. Bam. Done. Closer semblance of balance achieved.

Did you ever hate how long it took to find a match before??? Yeesh. Although it would be nice to be able to spectate, without the ability to comment your friends list as deployed. I know I could learn a lot.

[stjobe]

Kazuki Otori, on 02 April 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Tell ya what would solve a ton of these problems. A separate game mode or whatever called hardcore or some such, where you can only use stock variants. Bam. Done. Closer semblance of balance achieved.

It's been requested for at least as long as I've been here (since August 2012), and likely a fair bit longer.

Deaf ears. That's what those requests have fallen on.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Kjudoon, on 02 April 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

A few misconceptions here.

1. Now that the Stalker Trial boat is gone,
2. My damage has gone up yes,
...

So you want a thinking man's 'shooter'? Then you gotta stop giving in to the strictly twitch based shooter behaviors and incorporate low twitch strategic thinking which indirect and guided weapons force into the game.

Some incorrect assumptions. I am not anti LRM, a twitcher, complaining-(Just giving an opinion), I said score not damage. Should said kills and damage I guess to be plain. No risk with LRMs. Not what I meant only at @ 175 there was so many indirect kills at 600+ m. And it was so easy. Loaded up my STK 3F was wrecking it deciding which target to hit. NARC buff in there too.

At 175m/s the risk was reduced quite a bit. Very strong LRMs reduce the thinking mans shooter if you ask me. All weapons being equal is a poor goal to reach for. No problem with AC and PPC being the most powerful really and I don't meta a lot.

And competetive and Pub play. They didn't get use at 175, PGI thought it too much seems, where would they get use 200, 225? 2.5 damage? Pick a spot between Competetive and Pub. Very different groups.

And you think I am only about face to face brawl. It is my favorite but I play all weapons and most mechs. I have ran LRMs quite a bit I and I guess I am just questioning the end result.

Dropped some more today. LRMs are still top score usually and 2-3 per team and 2-3 ECM spotters. Or no LRMs and spotters. One match had 7 lights and 3 boats. Not directly related to LRM buff but is a result.

I do think 3/3/3/3 will make a difference with LRMs. Do I bring that assault boat when they get a HGN or BNC?

Me as a twitch shooter, lol. I did laugh. I can snap shot just fine but not a twitch player.

edit: if you have no back up weapons you deserve the risk. A1 excluded. Noted that these drops were off NA peak. Time of day matters very much sometimes.

Edited by MicroVent, 02 April 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Wolfways, on 02 April 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

lol boater...
All my mechs have stock weapons and i have two (Catapult, Stalker) with LRM's. Along with my Raven they are the mechs i rarely use.

I picture you with a monocle, cigar and top hat. A glass of sherry in your hand perusing the interwebs. See you on the field mechwarrior.

[Kjudoon]

Then I misread you regarding score. My apologies.

Fast LRMs, just like snipers, force you to evaluate a map tactically and strategically. Where can I move safely? If I expose myself and am seen, can I take the damage given? Stuff like that. The reason LRMs aren't needing to be as fast as ACs is because they DO have the indirect fire advantage which then takes away safe hidey holes for snipers, forcing a much more dynamic flow to the match. LRMboats cannot sit in their Mech Blinds waiting for if a light gets a tag on them, counter battery fire that snipers could not do comes screaming in and fast. With an earned reputation for being slow and easy to explode, those same LRM boats are their own worst enemies. I know I feed on them big time and have huge games against the biggest assault LRMboats. LRMs both slow down the game in some respects, and create dynamism because nowhere is truely safe anymore from all types of weapons.

I am not asking for all weapons to be equal, but I do want them all to be 'equally feasable' in competative play. Since LRMs right now are the only missile capable of reaching that goal currently (sorry SRMs, maybe you'll get your day sometime) they should be able to compete with the premier weapons of the Energy group (The PPCs) and Ballistics (The Autocannons). Real variety and parity in 12mans would mean that those who ignore having a few LRMs on their team ensures their loss, not secures their victory against those who do have LRMs.

Right now LRMs are going to be among the top scorers because too many people refuse to learn or just haven't adjusted yet. You do have the trial catapult out there too and that is LRM heavy, but not as bad as the Stalker (another poor choice but not horrid). Of course, they are catapults and inherantly squishy in the wrong hands. I pilot Cats, and they are squishy, but you gotta know how to handle them and have them move faster than 64kph and add JJs to them to make them really worth their weight. Then they become a huge medium LRMisher as they potentially should be.

I agree Quad3 is going to be a good thing for the game, but maintain Triple4 would have been better. Meh, I'll live with it. LRMisher Mediums and lights work nice too. Assaults will be less and less LRMboats and Heavies will be doing most of the missile work is my prediction. I will be so happy to see the end of being weighted either assaults or lights all the time.

I don't know if you are a twitch shooter. The fact that you can snapshot lets me know you have a higher FPS and better system than me. When I'm playing at 4-10fps, there is no direct fire option, nor money to upgrade to a better computer. LRMs and indirect long range weapons are my only options to play and be effective.

And yes, if you are strictly boating an ammo based weapon, you deserve high risk, unless it's a laser boat.

My damages are back up to where they were in Sept-Nov, but my kills have gone up to where they were Dec-Jan. Feb and Mar, I got horrible damage and kills for some reason, so I smell a stealth nerf or something went on because I used mechs with no loadout changes. In 12mans I see the rare casual competative team that uses an LRM lance, and they do fairly well, but they never Roflstomp anyone like the tier one meta teams. Till I see LRM centric teams beating or fighting those AC meta teams to a draw... LRMs aren't there yet.

PUGs are always going to receive the raw end of that deal, but the 1 premade per team will balance most of that out too.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Kjudoon, on 02 April 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

PUGs are always going to receive the raw end of that deal, but the 1 premade per team will balance most of that out too.

I hear and understand your point. Part of this for me was I was killing a lot of Jenners with LRMs. This felt wrong. They were immune before but in so much jepardy to lrms now. My natural enemy in my LRM boat at my mercy lol. PGI's nerf and buff cycles are goofy. And the ease of use nagged at me. I will be fine wherever they end up.


I do disagree on balance point. Somewhere between. They did need a buff. No argument there. And I used them often before. Up 10-15 per patch maybe PGI on these adjustments. This has to be on purpose though, these wild cycles. Feels like a borderline personality spouse at times.

No issues at all with pugs/premades. Both suck and rock.

Good luck and see you out there too.

[Kjudoon]

Don't forget to watch for fellow forum warriors and post sightings here:

http://mwomercs.com/...-warrior-corps/

[wanderer]

Reading up on the past 32 pages, I feel a need to mention something here one more time, in and of itself.

LRM's are really the only weapon in the game right now whose effectiveness is not a direct measurement of it's stats, but rather it's users and targets. Sure, the speed changes alter this to some extent, in so far as the LRM's bubble of influence on the field goes. But the LRM, despite functioning the same way from scrub noob to l33t master works at a level of effectiveness that has lower ELO players headbutting their monitors and crying "LURMAGEDON" whilst the 12-man meta-surfing types go "That's nice" before firing their autocannons again.

We have a unique weapon system whose value is gold or dross based on who's playing- that is, it is not objective, but subjective. While stat changes can alter it's base values and if large enough, trigger another lurmageddon buff-and-nerf cycle...it is the only weapon right now that can act as a barometer for just what tier of play you're in.

If your team is getting bombed to the Stone Age, it's a long way to the top. When you regularly stop seeing missile rain, you're likely in the territory of guys who regularly use "ggclose" in 12-mans instead. I now view "can you deal with the missiles" as a measure of personal competence, if a loose one.

Figure I'll get in another weekend of bombarding folks with the speed tweak in and see how much has changed, but I don't expect much other than a slightly reduced effective range. The same people who haven't learned map awareness will burn, the ones who have will make me burn.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Lyoto Machida, on 02 April 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

Give us indirect LRMs at 120m/s (old speed) and direct fire LRMs at the speed of a PPC (1200m/s?) with an almost flat arc. No indirect fire without TAG/UAV/NARC.

Problem solved...then all the LRM whiners have nothing to complain about.

I do love how people seem to think most of the people who use LRMs properly are using them indirectly.

If indirect is the problem, nerf indirect. I personally almost never use indirect fire in any major way and could care less.

What I do is direct fire LRM's.

My Shadow Hawk right now has 2 LRM 10's, 2 Streaks and 1 MLas with the normal gear to help the LRMs.

My goal is to sit at around 250m and throw everything I have at you.

But I can also engage out to 600m with the LRM's and do quite well (past 600m it's almost not worth it).

[AlmightyAeng]

MicroVent, on 02 April 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

I picture you with a monocle, cigar and top hat. A glass of sherry in your hand perusing the interwebs. See you on the field mechwarrior.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 03 April 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

What I do is direct fire LRM's.

I know right? Direct fire is a blast and very effective. Worked before the buff. I thought LRMs were making a comeback right before the buff anyway but PGI wanted accelerate it or global data didn't show it.

[AlmightyAeng]

MicroVent, on 03 April 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

I know right? Direct fire is a blast and very effective. Worked before the buff. I thought LRMs were making a comeback right before the buff anyway but PGI wanted accelerate it or global data didn't show it.

Well yeah...Direct fire is taking advantage of Artemis grouping, and is often closer, giving the target less time to act.

My favorite range is 250-400 for LRM's...raining in direct fire on some poor sap who's engaged with a brawler.

Even better...I like BEING that brawler, with the support coming in on my target, who is panicked and usually responding very poorly to my push.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Ghost Badger, on 03 April 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

My favorite range is 250-400 for LRM's

Did this in my Griffin. 2-LRM 10s 3ML max JJ TAG BAP etc.. I could chase a mech across Canyon airborn half the time maintaining lock. Graze with the TAG for an extra second of lock to reposition. If there was another missle mech the spot bonus was like a 2 match payoff. It was work and it was fun. Good times.. Good times...

[Kjudoon]

Ghost Badger, on 03 April 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

Urbie like a sir.

[DocBach]

pfft that Urbie thinks its class, but it still ain't gold.

[AlmightyAeng]

DocBach, on 03 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

pfft that Urbie thinks its class, but it still ain't gold.

Your wish, is my command.

[Lyoto Machida]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 03 April 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

I do love how people seem to think most of the people who use LRMs properly are using them indirectly.

If indirect is the problem, nerf indirect. I personally almost never use indirect fire in any major way and could care less.

What I do is direct fire LRM's.

My Shadow Hawk right now has 2 LRM 10's, 2 Streaks and 1 MLas with the normal gear to help the LRMs.

My goal is to sit at around 250m and throw everything I have at you.

But I can also engage out to 600m with the LRM's and do quite well (past 600m it's almost not worth it).

I don't really use indirect but have admittedly gotten lazier since the patch, since the faster speed allows for more indirect fire. But yeah...250m-400m is the sweet spot.