120 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

Jun Watarase, on 28 May 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Saying that anything that works well is a metabuild and is fine is like saying theres nothing wrong with using Akuma or other boss characters in street fighter becaue he's good.

Dude you might on to something...
Let's go to something more real world...
Please tell the dudes at http://www.formula1.com/default.html not to build the most OP carts they can within the rules or putting the most OP drivers their money can get their hands on to win races..

META might be cheap but it is not cheating.. PGI might down the lines build more options for players to have a more leveled playing field. Meanwhile while you should not blame the players running the builds they do... PGI allowed them too.

By the way... The last person to win EVO SF4:AE2012 was a dude from my country using Gen (complex underdog character).

Edited by ShinVector, 28 May 2014 - 08:05 AM.

[Cimarb]

Jun Watarase, on 28 May 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

A metabuild is one that takes advantage of broken game balance to end up with a mech that is impossible to counter without also using a metabuild. Im sure some other people can phrase that better, but that should be enough to give you an idea of it. Why not start a thread on GD asking what a metabuild is if you arent sure?

Theres no way a non metabuild can kill a metabuild all other factors being equal. Just like how Akuma in street fighter walks over every other character in the game.

I asked what your definition was, because you were all over the board in your posts. You started out calling LRMs meta builds, for Heavens sake.

Your last sentence shows exactly where your forum rage is coming from, though. If you think that meta builds are "invincible", you should watch some more of the tournaments, because they are most definitely not.

[Solahma]

[ShinVector]

It takes one Otaku to address another Otaku.

[Solahma]

[dario03]

Jun Watarase, on 27 May 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Im guessing there are two main reasons for that :

1. Lights are really hard to kill with most weapons due to buggy hit registration, especially with lasers. This lets them live for much longer than an Atlas could which gives them more firing time to do damage. Especially when dropping solo since they can run away if things get unfavourable, while slower mechs are stuck if the enemy shows up and your teammates decide to run away instead of help.

2. Strike spam to boost damage scores.

I ping around 30 and constantly take ghost damage so I don't think people hitting me is that big of a issue. Sure it happens because hitreg is screwy but I don't think I'm getting the invincible spider style of lag shield that some get.
And yeah I used strikes in the tourny but honestly some of my best tourny scores didn't involve strikes or if it did they didn't do much. Heck my highest scoring Firestarter match ever was done despite that fact that I had to throw my only strike in plain site to avoid getting blasted and I only got two little blips of hit confirmation. Besides its not like lights are the only ones that have strikes so that kind of cancels out.

Edited by dario03, 28 May 2014 - 09:48 PM.

[N0MAD]

Eglar, on 27 May 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

PGI hosts *a tournament* and people complain about Metabuilds.
So PGI gives you a team tournament people complain about not having a team and not being in their timezone.
PGI gives you a solo tournament, people complain about not being able to drop in a team.

Perfect excuse for losing.



Oh yea and back to the original thread my best games were:

1. JM6-FB 2xUAC2xLLas 5kills 7 assist 1555 Dmg
2. STK-M 2xPPC 1xAC20 5kills 6assist 1438 Dmg
3. CTF-3D 2xPPC 2xAC5 5kills 6assist 1372 Dmg
4. RVN-3L 2x ERLarge 4kills 7assisst 1155 Dmg
...
Dragonslyer 2xAC5 2xPPC
...
10. HGN 733 1x TAG 4x LRM15 Artemis 4 Kills 7 Assist 1068.


But yea, I see, all meta for you.

Well no disrespect here mate but..
All your builds seem exactly like 80%+ of the same chassis builds out there,(PPC, AC, LL, LRM) nothing unique, there for meta.

Edited by N0MAD, 28 May 2014 - 09:19 PM.

[Eglar]

N0MAD, on 28 May 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

Well no disrespect here mate but..
All your builds seem exactly like 80%+ of the same chassis builds out there,(PPC, AC, LL, LRM) nothing unique, there for meta.

Posts in the FACTION CHALLENGE TOP 10 LOAD OUTS topic


Gets told "it's meta"

Edited by Eglar, 29 May 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[wanderer]

In other news, the sky is blue, water is wet, and Dragon Slayers are all over the bracket tournament scene.

Also, LORDS will say "gg close" some time next month.

[Vweegit]

Jun Watarase, on 28 May 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Theres no way a non metabuild can kill a metabuild all other factors being equal. Just like how Akuma in street fighter walks over every other character in the game.

Huh. And here I sit, time and again, in my lowly non-meta builds, leading the scoreboard in most matches. One of the following must be true, given what you've said and what I experience: you're talking out your ass, or I'm simply an amazing pilot.

I know which one is more likely. I've seen amazing pilots. I'm not that.

Seriously. I don't often say this to anyone: but christ almighty, you need to learn to play. Or perhaps find a different game and outlet for your rage. Almost every post I see out of you is some kind of complaint about how X is broken or Y is overpowered. And every time, I think..."Jun...learn to counter it. It can be done."

[Eglar]

wanderer, on 29 May 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

In other news, the sky is blue, water is wet, and Dragon Slayers are all over the bracket tournament scene.

Also, LORDS will say "gg close" some time next month.

you mean ggclose.

[Solahma]

I really don't understand why people complain about "meta". There will be min/max builds in EVERY game. I'm actually very surprised there is such a wide range of effective mechs in MWO, and I feel like it will only get better (more effective mechs).

Min/Maxing is the nature of people, they want the BEST build with the LEAST drawbacks. Certain combinations will always be better than others, there is no avoiding it 100% in any game. There will always be a weapon that is better than another in a wider range of circumstances. People naturally gravitate toward these weapons because they require less thinking and less specific applications. They are general builds that work most of the time in most circumstances. We saw the same thing in BF3: the M4A1. It was a weapon that performed well at a moderate range. It was EVERYWHERE. But that didn't stop me from killing them with my crossbow

Another aspect is the "It's not your build, it's YOU!" phrase that I brought over from Infinity The Game (It's not your list, it's YOU!) This phrase has a lot of meaning, but mainly that the pilot factor is as important if not MORE important than your build. I've made a lot of crazy builds, and I'm not the best pilot in the game, but I've made them work more often then not. Hell, I've made stock builds work in public games.

What you are basically complaining about is people challenging themselves to become better pilots, which I agree with to a very small extent. Yes, I wish that more players took interesting builds and tried to make them work. It helps you grow situation awareness and experience with different weapon systems. However, in a tournament, I would never complain about going up against the most min/maxed builds. They will always exist. ALWAYS.

Another funny thing is how many builds people call "META". You mine as well be calling them "broken" or "OP" the way you talk about them. Stop using the term meta ffs. There is the "LERMAGEDON" meta, the "POPTERT" meta, the "ECM Light" meta, the "AC Boat" meta, the "PPC" meta. What are you saying? that everyone should just take lasers, streaks, and SRMs to be properly playing the game? I'm sorry, but this has really gotten out-of-hand. Ever one of these "broken OP meta mechs" has flaws and can be countered with coordination and teamwork.

[Jam the Bam]

Considering a major part of the game is building a mech to be as effective as you can make it, how exactly is intentionally taking a full customisable robot that is sub par into a match ever going to be a good or admirable thing?

[oldradagast]

I think the frustration about meta comes about not because it exists but rather because it is obvious, stale, and still nothing has been done to at least try to mix things up and bit and expand the options (though the auto-cannon range reduction coming soon might help a bit.)

I've played collectible card games (MTG, etc.) for years, and while I don't play at a competitive level, I'm at least aware to some extent of what goes on there and how in most cases if some card is dominating the format and stifling ideas, it ends up restricted or banned from the formats in question. The restricted and banned lists change with time, of course, but it at least shows some acknowledgement that there is a problem and something is being done to correct it. Arguably, we've been playing with the same meta for well over a year now. There have been some steps to improve things - jump jet nerf, LRM buff, etc. - but at the top levels, you're still looking at the same game on average with the same mechs. I'm guessing that staleness and the seeming inability to address the problem is what's ticking people off, not the fact that there will always be better mechs and weapons than others.

Edited by oldradagast, 30 May 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[_____]

^^ The problem is not when competitive players min/max. The issue is that competitive players play in the same matches as casual players. When a competitive DS-carrying 4-man drops in a PUG game, you pretty much know what's going to happen, and that's what's going to get new and some experienced players frustrated.

[Cimarb]

BlackhawkSC, on 30 May 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

^^ The problem is not when competitive players min/max. The issue is that competitive players play in the same matches as casual players. When a competitive DS-carrying 4-man drops in a PUG game, you pretty much know what's going to happen, and that's what's going to get new and some experienced players frustrated.

Welcome to war!




(yes, I know it is a game, but it's pretty darn balanced compared to reality, so I think you SHOULD be scared to see a familiar name going up against you)

[_____]

Cimarb, on 30 May 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

Welcome to war!

(yes, I know it is a game, but it's pretty darn balanced compared to reality, so I think you SHOULD be scared to see a familiar name going up against you)

Actually it's the players who have no idea what's going on that'll be most unhappy with that balance. I know what to expect, but if a newbie gets wiped out by long range fire from an enemy that he never even saw, that's what's going to ruin his experience.

[Cimarb]

BlackhawkSC, on 30 May 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Actually it's the players who have no idea what's going on that'll be most unhappy with that balance. I know what to expect, but if a newbie gets wiped out by long range fire from an enemy that he never even saw, that's what's going to ruin his experience.

Not really. Having everyone call him a noob and all sorts of other stuff for dieing is what does it - it's the community (in game and out) that makes or breaks a new players experience.

[wanderer]

BlackhawkSC, on 30 May 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

^^ The problem is not when competitive players min/max. The issue is that competitive players play in the same matches as casual players. When a competitive DS-carrying 4-man drops in a PUG game, you pretty much know what's going to happen, and that's what's going to get new and some experienced players frustrated.

4 Slayers- not so bad. Can't do it now anyway with the max 3-weight per 4-man premade anyway.

Three with ECM support? That's a paddling for the other team, and I do see those with PUGstomper lances farming for money.

[MadC4t]

Hi MadC4t here.

I´m the #4 of House Kurita in Faction Challenge 1 & 2

I Used my Stalker 4N (6 M-Laser & 2 LRM 15 with Standard Engine)
Best matches around 5 - 6 kills and over 900DMG