3 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

With some things now available, I think we can actually have an Arrow IV system in game. So here is my idea for it.

THE MODULE

Arrow IV needs its own Module that can NOT be purchased by CB or MC for use in other Mechs without the firing weapon, why is described in the AMMO and HOW TO FIRE & DEAL DAMAGE sections.
Flight time needs to be shorter than current strikes at their best (4 seconds), I would say 2 seconds for starters. This is because the firing unit is on map compared to off map artillery.
Since it works similar to a Long Tom hence an MWO Artillery Strike, damage is done in a similar radius (60m) and for half damage (6 hits at 20 damage each). Lower damage is due to shorter flight time. C'mon, the darn thing hits like 6 LRM 20s over an area as is.
Smoke effect might be colored different than typical red Arty Strikes (possibly consider different color between Air and Arty?).
This Module cannot be improved like other Strikes so no improvement to flight time, number of hits, radius.
Since Homing is possible as a firing method (see HOW TO FIRE & DEAL DAMAGE section), Lock can be improved through use of Target Decay and 360 Retention.
No Weapon Modules available to improve it either.

THE WEAPON

Listed as a Missile Weapon or getting its own designation as an Artillery Weapon (see section MECHS ABLE TO USE IT).
Inner Sphere version is 15 tons, 15 criticals divided into 9 placed in target location plus 6 in an adjacent location, this design is based off the Catapult-C3 record sheet (not sure offhand what other IS designs carried it stock and too tired to look).
All criticals can only go into arm or side torso locations on the same side.
You cannot place it in one side and have the second critical group go into the other side.
Heat is generated the same as firing 1 PPC.
NOT range limited since it had a TT range of several maps, only line of sight limits use.

AMMO

5 shots per ton but the ammo works different than other ammo. Each shot is actually a Pre-Loaded Module Slot carrying a Arrow IV Module. End of match, these slots are automatically reloaded and can NEVER carry other Module types. So 1 ton ammo is 5 Pre-Loaded Arrow IV Modules.

HOW TO FIRE & DEAL DAMAGE

Either allow use of the same key as Artillery Strikes or a new key to fire.
When one Arrow IV Module is fired, cooldown starts before next module can be fired. Cooldown rate currently unknown since it might be modified from existing Strike wait time before use, cannot find that statistic anywhere.
There were 2 types available when used, Standard and Homing.
Standard firing is to aim not at a target Unit but at a terrain location just like Strikes and dead firing LRMs. Point crosshairs at the ground location where the Arrow IV is to hit and fire. No special Lock-On needed.
Homing requires 2 conditions be met.
Condition #1 - Firing Unit must have a Targeted Unit from R key use and crosshairs on target just like is needed for LRMs to get Lock.
Condition #2 - Target Unit must be TAGged.
If both conditions are met, Lock-On similar to LRMs is possible and Arrow IV strike will follow target for as long as Lock is maintained. If Lock is lost after firing (either Firing Unit loses target or TAG is lost), Arrow IV will hit the ground at Target Unit's last Locked location similar to LRMs.

MECHS ABLE TO USE IT

There are 2 ways to do this.

Option #1 - Any Mech having a Missile slot with a 20 tube maximum launcher, needed to reflect weapon size and limit use. You could put one on 3 of the Catapult designs (A1, C1, C3) but not on a Quickdraw (no Missile slots can go bigger than 10 tubes). This limits use to the following Mechs (locations listed as where 9 criticals go first, 6 criticals second):
All 3 Griffins (RT+RA for 1N and 3M, LT+LA for 1S)
All 4 Kintaros (LA+LT or RT+RA)
Catapult-A1, -C1, -C4 (either side with arms first)
Thunderbolt-5S (RT+RA only)
Orion-K, -M, -V, PROTECTOR (LT+LA only)
Stalker-3H (either side with arms first)
All Highlanders (LT+LA only)
Banshee-3S, LA MALINCHE (RT+RA only)

Option #2 - Make new variants or modify existing ones with a new Artillery hardpoint. Catapult-C3 is obvious with everything the same as the C1 but Missile hardpoints are removed for Arty hardpoints in the RA+RT, maybe LA+LT so players can choose side preferred or just mod the C1 with 1 Arty hardpoint in each arm. A Stalker variant would make sense since it is described as a siege engine type Mech, if modding then use the 3H. Other possibilities open for discussion though modding existing designs with Arty hardpoints I would limit choices to the ones from Option #1. This could serve to create alternate variants that may not be stock but assist those choosing certain Mechs to play, be honest, not all Hero Mechs are stock are they.

[BourbonFaucet]

I would love the Arrow-IV system in this game, but your solution seems overly complicated.

I do like the idea of requiring a module to use the system, but mostly for the fact that it prevents a player from having both an artillery styled weapon and the other bonuses provided by the regular systems. Might I propose 1 module given for free for each Arrow-IV system purchased, which is sold if the launcher is sold, and can't be sold otherwise.

Why should the Arrow IV's ammo be overly complicated like what you have it, and limited to 5 shots nonetheless? In TT Arrow IV missiles got the same ammo count as the AC/20, so it ought to be 7 for balance purposes.

As for Homing VS Standard, it's much easier. Standard fires a dumbfire (or very poorly guided) shot, Homing requires a TAG designation but homes in. Even better would be making the missile simply track the end of the tag line.

When the missile hits, it explodes as a single shell from the arty strike, with a 20 damage base.

Make the cooldown quite long due to power.

Also, wasn't there something said somewhere that crit-splitting is too hard or something for this system?

There, much simpler.

[CyclonerM]

Why should it be a module at all?

I would like to see the C3 variant introduced. I do not know how it worked on TT, but maybe big enough missile hardpoints could be the condition required to mount an Arrow IV launcher. 20 sounds a bit too low, only a few 'Mechs should be able to carry them.

If there are more variants that fit in the timeline and carry it, tell us.

I quote Techorse about how it should work. Dumbfired, with area damage, and they should also be slow and easy to spot and avoid; if the target is TAGged, the missile will follow the point where the TAG is pointed at and if it is NARCed it will home in, but it will still be slow and easy enough to avoid for faster 'Mechs (ideally, scoring a direct hit on a running light should be almost impossible).

[Wildstreak]

Techorse, on 28 March 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

I would love the Arrow-IV system in this game, but your solution seems overly complicated.

I do like the idea of requiring a module to use the system, but mostly for the fact that it prevents a player from having both an artillery styled weapon and the other bonuses provided by the regular systems. Might I propose 1 module given for free for each Arrow-IV system purchased, which is sold if the launcher is sold, and can't be sold otherwise.

Why should the Arrow IV's ammo be overly complicated like what you have it, and limited to 5 shots nonetheless? In TT Arrow IV missiles got the same ammo count as the AC/20, so it ought to be 7 for balance purposes.

As for Homing VS Standard, it's much easier. Standard fires a dumbfire (or very poorly guided) shot, Homing requires a TAG designation but homes in. Even better would be making the missile simply track the end of the tag line.

When the missile hits, it explodes as a single shell from the arty strike, with a 20 damage base.

Make the cooldown quite long due to power.

Also, wasn't there something said somewhere that crit-splitting is too hard or something for this system?

There, much simpler.

I tried using existing game features to make coding easier.

Before buffing Arrow IV shots per ton, we should do a damage comparison between TT and MWO.

Most weapons do the same damage in both games, some have been tweaked but not too much. However, a detailed comparison of TT and MWO artillery is surprising.

Artillery in TT comes in 3 sizes, biggest is the Long Tom, second the Thumper, least is the Sniper. I will use the Long Tom that hits for 20 damage in a 30m hex and 10 damage to each of the 6 30m hexes surrounding the target hex. That is a total of 80 damage overall.

In MWO, 1 Arty Strike hits with 6 bombs for 40 damage each, that is 240 total points, orginal TT damage times 4!

Also in terms of area, TT Strikes hit in a 45m radius around the center, in MWO I think it is a 30m radius, more damage in a smaller area and an upgrade shrinks the area by 20%.

Name another weapon that got a 4x times damage increase. Now you want the Arrow IV doing in TT the same damage as a Long Tom to have more shots?

As for Homing & Standard, I thought I said that but my description may not have been understood since it is detailed, I tend to do that.

I did the damage using the same MWO mechanic used for Arty Strikes but lowered it for a few reasons.

If crit splitting is too hard, how come XL Engines can criot split? There has to be a way to do it given XLs.

CyclonerM, on 28 March 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Why should it be a module at all?

I would like to see the C3 variant introduced. I do not know how it worked on TT, but maybe big enough missile hardpoints could be the condition required to mount an Arrow IV launcher. 20 sounds a bit too low, only a few 'Mechs should be able to carry them.

If there are more variants that fit in the timeline and carry it, tell us.

I quote Techorse about how it should work. Dumbfired, with area damage, and they should also be slow and easy to spot and avoid; if the target is TAGged, the missile will follow the point where the TAG is pointed at and if it is NARCed it will home in, but it will still be slow and easy enough to avoid for faster 'Mechs (ideally, scoring a direct hit on a running light should be almost impossible).

As a module, it uses existing game design to try and make implementation easier. Not saying it is the best, just my approach.

C3 variant must have come after I stopped playing TT because of life changes,

I explained the other stuff though Arrow IV is not described as working with NARC, only TAG TMK.