87 replies to this topic

[Abivard]

once the 3/3/3/3 and 1 premade per team rule goes in the whine will be all about not being able to get a match.

That matchmaker would have to be FORCED to start with a premade then build the rest of the team around it. As the Premades will almost all be 3 assaults and a heavy, only lights and mediums have a good chance to get matched, heavy's slightly less and a solo assault will probably never find a match.

As very few people run mediums, you may have a good chance of dropping solo in a medium and get a match, but you can then be assured that at the very least 9 of the enemy mechs will out perform theirs, and if the 3 mediums are good ones and yours is not, then all 12 mechs will be superior to yours.

What total idiots PGI are.

[El Bandito]

I still think a system similar to Battle Value should be implemented.

[Triordinant]

Roadbeer, on 30 March 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Believe me, after over 500 (temporary) days of having to attempt to sync drop in order to play with more than 3 of my friends, but less than 11 of them, many of us have become experts on how to game the current matchmaker with varying degrees of success, this system is going to be MUCH easier to game.

...and it will get MUCH worse when Community Warfare arrives because it will be impossible for you to be on opposite sides if you're in the same faction and therefore more likely you can possibly have a de facto 12-man premade on TS vs. the other (mostly PUG) team. If a way isn't found to stop this before Community Warfare, the game will degenerate into bigger clans basically using 10 to 12-man premades to stomp smaller clans using 2 to 4-mans and the 8 to 10 random PUGs they end up with. That will mean End of Line for players smart enough to see what's going on (who will naturally make sure everybody else in the gaming universe realizes it).

[Petard]

Just to clarify guys, I am not whining about sync dropping per se, hell, I have been a part of sync drops in various other games, and I totally agree, some of the games where you are vs. your clan mates are some of the funniest.

The issues I had were firstly, the self superior epeen stroking commentary, and secondly, the fact that the guys on my team who I suspected of being part of the sync drop not making any constructive attempts to engage the enemy, in fact, I suspect they were actively providing intel to their mates on the other team, given the way the battle panned out.

In closing, I would just like to say that I am not trying to attack people that sync drop, however, I DO have serious issues when the 3 guys from the sync drop that end up on my team make no attempt to aid the team in any way, and actively help the enemy by providing intelligence to their friends.

[Amsro]

Abivard, on 30 March 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

once the 3/3/3/3 and 1 premade per team rule goes in the whine will be all about not being able to get a match.

That matchmaker would have to be FORCED to start with a premade then build the rest of the team around it. As the Premades will almost all be 3 assaults and a heavy, only lights and mediums have a good chance to get matched, heavy's slightly less and a solo assault will probably never find a match.

As very few people run mediums, you may have a good chance of dropping solo in a medium and get a match, but you can then be assured that at the very least 9 of the enemy mechs will out perform theirs, and if the 3 mediums are good ones and yours is not, then all 12 mechs will be superior to yours.

What total idiots PGI are.

That will be impossible due to 4 mans now being 1+1+1+1 there is no more overweight or underweight 4 mans.

But with the new Elo buckets if you are in the same bucket you can sync drop even easier.

Petard, on 30 March 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Just to clarify guys, I am not whining about sync dropping per se, hell, I have been a part of sync drops in various other games, and I totally agree, some of the games where you are vs. your clan mates are some of the funniest.

The issues I had were firstly, the self superior epeen stroking commentary, and secondly, the fact that the guys on my team who I suspected of being part of the sync drop not making any constructive attempts to engage the enemy, in fact, I suspect they were actively providing intel to their mates on the other team, given the way the battle panned out.

In closing, I would just like to say that I am not trying to attack people that sync drop, however, I DO have serious issues when the 3 guys from the sync drop that end up on my team make no attempt to aid the team in any way, and actively help the enemy by providing intelligence to their friends.

So you now see the symptoms of FORCING players to sync drop with no other simple alternative, if instead the matchmaker just matched similar sized teams ALL the issues you are referring to would disappear.

Yet another one of PGI's attempts to fix what isn't broken, while delaying what is excruciatingly needed.

[Morang]

Amsro, on 30 March 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

That will be impossible due to 4 mans now being 1+1+1+1 there is no more overweight or underweight 4 mans.

What? Where and when was 1+1+1+1 rule claimed, did PGI changed their positions again?

I only read about "Max 3 of the same class" 4-mans, and PGI stated that it's better than tonnage limit because "with people having not enough different mechs it will be hard for 4-mans to fill the tonnage limit closely, but with max 3 of the same class rule only one guy will be forced to take the mech of any other class, and it will be easier to arrange even with people having few mechs". "Max 3 of the same class" easily translates into 3 Assaults and 1 Heavy.

[627]

Davers, on 30 March 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I often find myself against other Mariks I know in the same match, usually on the opposing side.

I thought that was the whole point of beeing marik? Shootin' everything that's purple, no matter which team? I mean, lore wise, house marik is the definition of teamkillers...

[Ryoken]

Amsro, on 30 March 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

That will be impossible due to 4 mans now being 1+1+1+1 there is no more overweight or underweight 4 mans.
...

Morang, on 30 March 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

What? Where and when was 1+1+1+1 rule claimed, did PGI changed their positions again?
...

AFAIK 2-4man premades underlie the 3+3+3+3 rule. 1+1+1+1 rule is wrong. (Or do you have any official source on 1+1+1+1 Amsro?)

[Joseph Mallan]

Petard, on 30 March 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

Congratulations to the online player group who shall remain nameless, that I saw online today, sync dropping with as many of their members possible on the same team....I strongly suspect that we had 2 or 3 of em on our team as well, given how useless they were, and given that they were from the same faction.

Said players bragged in game about using "true teamwork", wow, that's awesome, one team all on comms vs. a pug team, in which I was one of a 4 man.

Seriously guys, grow up, no-one else gives a rats backside about the size of your epeen, if you wanna drop with 12 guys, join the 12 man team queue, trying to play 12 mans vs. pugs is lame and weak, you should be a little ashamed of yourselves.

/End Rant

Team game that says form groups for better chances at winning, yet limits the # of players that can group up!!! And some people wonder why the the Solo numbers LOOKS like 84% of players drop solo!

[kuangmk11]

Ryoken, on 30 March 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

AFAIK 2-4man premades underlie the 3+3+3+3 rule. 1+1+1+1 rule is wrong. (Or do you have any official source on 1+1+1+1 Amsro?)

Before 3+3+3+3 was outlined they had planned on true tonnage limits/weight balancing where every lance would be balanced/limited. Premades would have had to be balanced before launching. That's probably where the 1+1+1+1 notion came from. Unfortunately the threw that out the window.

[Amsro]

Ryoken, on 30 March 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

AFAIK 2-4man premades underlie the 3+3+3+3 rule. 1+1+1+1 rule is wrong. (Or do you have any official source on 1+1+1+1 Amsro?)

Small source. http://mwomercs.com/...93-feb-27-2014/

kuangmk11, on 31 March 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Before 3+3+3+3 was outlined they had planned on true tonnage limits/weight balancing where every lance would be balanced/limited. Premades would have had to be balanced before launching. That's probably where the 1+1+1+1 notion came from. Unfortunately the threw that out the window.

From Pauls fingers directly, that is if he types his own posts.

Quote

• The ideal lance build would consist of 1 Assault, 1 Heavy, 1 Medium and 1 Light ‘Mech to bring the full breadth of play types to the battlefield. We do understand that this isn’t the best lance build within a company since you’d probably want to have your scout lance, skirmish lance, support lance and assault lance. This 1/1/1/1 build however would bring lances together that made a company build a lot more strategically balanced.

So get ready to have cookie cutter fun!

[kuangmk11]

Amsro, on 31 March 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Small source. http://mwomercs.com/...93-feb-27-2014/


From Pauls fingers directly, that is if he types his own posts.


So get ready to have cookie cutter fun!

I stand corrected. It does sound like premades will have to drop 1+1+1+1

[Iskareot]

El Bandito, on 30 March 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

LRMs are fine, learn to...wait, it is not LRM QQ thread?

What you suspected might be true, but I do not think it is probable that so many of them managed to successfully sync-drop in the same game. Their Elos should be different.

And any self respecting group player will not intentionally perform badly, just because their teammates are on the opposite side. At least, not us Mariks. We revel in fratricide.

Lol... I wanted to see a lobby system by now stopping that crap. SOOO many things to fix instead of how fast an LRM is. I just don't get the concepts of the Dev team with this product. They would have been fired at my firm if they did the stuff they have done so far. I still think they should identify premaders at least to their own team so you know who or what to follow at times. Let it be known and not hide that advantage. I don't see why not.

Triordinant, on 30 March 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

...and it will get MUCH worse when Community Warfare arrives because it will be impossible for you to be on opposite sides if you're in the same faction and therefore more likely you can possibly have a de facto 12-man premade on TS vs. the other (mostly PUG) team. If a way isn't found to stop this before Community Warfare, the game will degenerate into bigger clans basically using 10 to 12-man premades to stomp smaller clans using 2 to 4-mans and the 8 to 10 random PUGs they end up with. That will mean End of Line for players smart enough to see what's going on (who will naturally make sure everybody else in the gaming universe realizes it).

Imagine if this happens... if you go back to having 12 premaders in a TS vs solo players... you will see a drop in the player base pretty fast thats for sure. Id leave pretty fast. Talk about imbalance and odds to lose increase. Holy crap that would be no fun except for the other well made team lol.

[Triordinant]

kuangmk11, on 31 March 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

I stand corrected. It does sound like premades will have to drop 1+1+1+1

I certainly hope so. We can't let them monopolize the assault mechs.

[WVAnonymous]

Roadbeer, on 30 March 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

It's been stated that there is only going to be 3 Elo buckets. You mean to tell me that you can't look at your overall stats for a weight class and guesstimate what bucket you're in if there are only 3?

I don't know, Roadbeer. I would guess you (and particularly you + Davers) would way out-Elo me, but I see you two on a pretty regular basis and I pug 90% of the time. I'm frequently the 4th man in a 3-man pre made lance; I think my stats are weak, but I hold locks on targets and encourage Leeroys to come back before they get killed, for whatever that's worth.

What Elo bucket am I in?

[AlmightyAeng]

Hehehe...my group sync drops if we've got just a pair of lances on. Seems like 4 times out of 5 if we DO end up in the same match, it's on opposite sides...at which point it becomes my mission to kill as many of them as I can and then tease them mercilessly on teamspeak.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 31 March 2014 - 12:10 PM.

[Roadbeer]

WVAnonymous, on 31 March 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I don't know, Roadbeer. I would guess you (and particularly you + Davers) would way out-Elo me, but I see you two on a pretty regular basis and I pug 90% of the time. I'm frequently the 4th man in a 3-man pre made lance; I think my stats are weak, but I hold locks on targets and encourage Leeroys to come back before they get killed, for whatever that's worth.

What Elo bucket am I in?

Well, since they opened it up to a 1400 range, does it really matter? 700s are dropping against 2100s

[Ordellus]

Amsro, on 30 March 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

That will be impossible due to 4 mans now being 1+1+1+1 there is no more overweight or underweight 4 mans.

But with the new Elo buckets if you are in the same bucket you can sync drop even easier.



So you now see the symptoms of FORCING players to sync drop with no other simple alternative, if instead the matchmaker just matched similar sized teams ALL the issues you are referring to would disappear.

Yet another one of PGI's attempts to fix what isn't broken, while delaying what is excruciatingly needed.

Or they could just not allow groups at all to stop the "waaaah we can't pug stomp so we have to sync drop waaaah"

Or even better.... they could allow groups of any size, but only allow groups to drop against groups of their size....

But of course being on equal ground isn't want 98% of group droppers want

p.s. if you want to shorten wait times -> stop being min/max/meta/arty douche nuggets and try to get the game fixed instead of lobbying for whatever mechanic will simultaneously boost your stats and drive away players as you farm them

Edited by Ordellus, 31 March 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Ordellus, on 31 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Or they could just not allow groups at all to stop the "waaaah we can't pug stop so we have to sync drop waaaah"

Which is exactly what they're doing when they bring in 3-3-3-3. One 'group' per team only. Any sync drops will have people on opposite sides.

[Amsro]

WVAnonymous, on 31 March 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I don't know, Roadbeer. I would guess you (and particularly you + Davers) would way out-Elo me, but I see you two on a pretty regular basis and I pug 90% of the time. I'm frequently the 4th man in a 3-man pre made lance; I think my stats are weak, but I hold locks on targets and encourage Leeroys to come back before they get killed, for whatever that's worth.

What Elo bucket am I in?

There are no buckets right now, that is the major issue with MatchMaker, you can be at a completely different Elo and still be in the same match currently. Average Elo teams allows this.