70 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Abivard, on 30 March 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

I am sure it has naught a thing to do with the posters observations but... when was the last time anyone has seen a victor in a drop? They were not common but certainly not this rare before the Adjustments PGI made. But we all know those could not possibly have anything to do with the absence of the Victor on the battle field! Could it be certain camo schemes are no longer available? Maybe the Knowledge that LRM's would be getting a speed boost made them disappear? Well, we will never know why the Victor went extinct, but it most definitely had nada to do with PGI's ADJUSTMENTS. p.s. don't use them, never have, and now never will.

What are you talking about? I still see plenty of DS in my pug drops.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 30 March 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

What are you talking about? I still see plenty of DS in my pug drops.

agreed.

Maybe the n00bstomp queue is light on VTRs, but they have been and continue to be, one of the most common chassis, match after match.

Now you wanna talk Trebuchets, or even Centys of late, those have been scarce.

[VIPER2207]

Skull Leader2, on 30 March 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Its a nice challenge to pilot a mech that is pound for pound undergunned by all mechs in it's weight class and most in the class below it.

You should try an Awesome...

[Lyoto Machida]

VIPER2207, on 30 March 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

You should try an Awesome...

Wow...don't know how I missed that line. I see at least 10x as many Victors as Awesomes.

[Homeless Bill]

As an Awesome pilot, I laugh heartily at your plight.

[meteorol]

KAT Ayanami, on 30 March 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

Same feeling I got when they removed PPCs

Abivard, on 30 March 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

when was the last time anyone has seen a victor in a drop?
Well, we will never know why the Victor went extinct

[Petard]

KharnZor, on 30 March 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

The changes made to the Victor make little to no difference in how the mech preforms. If you're having problems i'd look to yourself and stop blaming the mech.

Thank you so much for the belly laugh this post gave me, that was GOLD...

[Magna Canus]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 March 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

Now you wanna talk Trebuchets, or even Centys of late, those have been scarce.

Trebu-what? Is that a new mech? LOL

[KharnZor]

Petard, on 30 March 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

Thank you so much for the belly laugh this post gave me, that was GOLD...

[Maggiman]

Victors needed a nerf...but the one thing that made them really different from other assaults? meh.. Than again, i dont know how to nerf them otherwise without harming the brawler builds too...

[Sam Slade]

KharnZor, on 30 March 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

The changes made to the Victor make little to no difference in how the mech preforms. If you're having problems i'd look to yourself and stop blaming the mech.

Makes you sound like a champion poptart.

Lyoto Machida, on 30 March 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

I won't go as far as to say that it hasn't made any difference but the main thing since the JJ nerf and Victor nerf is that you can't jump brawl in them...you can still poptart just like before.

So... a swing and a miss from PGI. I still use my brawling Victor but the handling now does make a Highlander a more logical choice.

[Appogee]

My Dragon Slayer was my favourite Mech to pilot. NOT my most effective, but my most enjoyable to pilot.

I had rigged it to be multi-purpose ... I would mostly brawl with it, only jump-sniping to get in shots over the heads of friendlies or the occasional obstacle.

However, since the nerf, it will no longer torso twist fast enough to deal with Lights. Even with a 400XL engine. So, even though I don't actually enjoy jump-sniping, I've refitted it with more jump jets and more long range weapons.

If the goal of this nerf was to reduce jump sniping, then for me at least it achieved the opposite.

Now, Victor is just a too-lightly armored Assault - almost a dedicated jump sniper. For other roles, a Highlander - with much more armor and tanking ability - is a better choice.

Once again, the nerf seems to have reduced the diversity in the game, and driven players towards the meta builds which I thought they were trying to discourage.

[Cavendish]

Malleus011, on 30 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

In the Victor I loved, rigged for close-in AC/20 brawling, it's significantly harmed. Tracking a circling Raven is now a challenge. I torso twist slower than a Banshee.

Every 'fix' PGI implements seems to push more and more people towards the longs-range sniper meta. Fine work.

So then its now brought to a level of handling where it should have been from start. As a Raven pilot my defense is my speed, it SHOULD be a challange to track me in an 80 ton mech when im using that speed to avoid the one/two shot you can do to kill me with that AC20. I fail to see the problem?

If we exclude the Spider (with its own set of issues regarding hit registration some claim and some claim dont exist) the lights are the famous "glass cannons", its all fun and games until someone hits you and you fast and spectacularly. That the heavy brutes have som problems hitting you is the only thing that keeps the game somewhat varied rather then everyone using assults and heavys with the odd medium stuck in here and there (yes, mediums need a role).

Should a light be able to go one on one with an assult/heavy? Mostly depends on who you ask. Most people pay at least lip service to the mantra that "all mechs should be usefull) but when it comes down to it you have the lights whining about getting one-shot and how hard it is to play one, mediums complaining they need a role, heavys claiming they should be about as agile as a medium (or a light preferably) and assults thinking they should be an indestructable fortress of doom.

[KharnZor]

Sam Slade, on 31 March 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

Makes you sound like a champion poptart.

Actually i rarely do the poptart thing (although i did shamefully ***** it way back and did exceptionaly well) . I've just spent enough time in them to know how to use them.

[Trauglodyte]

FupDup, on 30 March 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

I haven't yet tested out the VTR after the nerf, but what I will say is that on paper it seems like the nerf gun missed its target. A torso twisting/turning nerf primarily makes the mech weaker in close quarters combat. The mech's FoTM loadouts were all built around long-range alpha striking while airborne. The poptarting effectiveness -- the thing that made the VTR a FoTM mech -- hasn't been changed. All that changed is that the mech is now weaker in the role it was originally designed to fulfill in Battletech and Tabletop: brawling.

Well, it was as nimble, or more so, than the Awesome 9M with the same engine in it only without the extremely easy to hit frame. Add in JJs and ranged weapons and it was an issue. Slowing down its ability to turn made it much easier to fight while it was in close. The irony of that, as you pointed out, is that most of the Victor loadouts were built around close in fighting. The changes were intended to, and appropriately done, make it so that it wasn't possible for the Victor driver to spread all of the incoming damage around the entirety of the mech. So, while it makes it harder to move in general, it opens it up to where it needs to be the weakest: in close. That sounds counterintuitive but how meneuverable is the Atlas in close? The Victor should never have been able to act like an 80 ton Shadowhawk. Now, it doesn't.

[Mycrus]

Victors are fine...

[Vercinaigh]

Lukoi, on 30 March 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

My experience in the VTR is that while brawling/close range was hurt a bit by the manueverability change it's not insurmountable. I laugh at folks that say it torso twists worse than a BNC tbh. Silly hyperbole. It doesn't spin on a dime anymore, but it backpedals and counter-turns just fine and certainly isn't as cumbersome as an AS7 or BNC.

If you relied on jump-spinning previously, yes, you are forced to adapt. That's not game breaking for the VTR imo, but if it is for you...guess what, people have suffered through a lack of jump-spinning in other mechs for quite some time now. Give it some practice and some time, learn some new skills and you'll find the VTR is still a fast, capable assault.

About that highlighted part...just wanna point this out...with a 300 engine rating. it is indeed the slowest torso twisting assault outside the Atlas, of which it closely resembles. You cannot compare a mech based on large XL's, one day, they may not be able to do that anymore. What if suddenly all assaults are XL friendly? the Awesome literally has 20% torso rotational speed on the Victor, the battle master is faster, the Stalker is faster, the Highlander is even faster, even after the c's nerf.

Don't spread fud, know what you're talking about, the change hurt brawling, a lot, all that was needed is relaxed versions of the class 1 JJ nerfs, which are likely still gonna happen.

[Plopton]

One of the first mechs I saved every C-bill for (long time saving) was an Awesome 8V, I need say no more...

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Skull Leader2, on 30 March 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Well I've adjusted to changes before but Jesus Christo the Victor took a triple hit. I was still adjusting to the slow velocity of the AC/20. Tack on the other changes to the mech, and the general meta moving ever more towards long range and the close fighting Victor looks like a ****. I can adapt but I can't make a chicken salad out of chicken s***.

meta is around long range still? that means camping and poptarting and long wastes of time.

thanks, I'm cancelling my reinstall.

[Gas Guzzler]

Well, honestly the nerfs to the Victor were noticeable, but the Victor is still very workable. What gets me the most though is why? The way I see it, because it was popular to drop large XL engines into Victors, many of the loadouts exhibited quick turning/twisting speed. Currently those two are set to 20% below "Default". I am assuming that "Default" is determined as a function of tonnage and engine size, seeing as twist speed increases proportionally with engine size. So why the heck such a huge adjustment? If an 80 ton mech handles like that with a big engine then what is the problem? I understand 5-10% adjustments for chassis tweaking but 20%??? Come on. That doesn't make any sense. It seems like an arbitrary adjustment just because most people put large engines in a Victor. It is like they wanted the Victor with a big engine to be as agile as an Awesome with a smaller engine.