4349 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

Shar Wolf, on 10 July 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

When I was first starting one of the developers admitted that the fans of the Urbie had managed to sway the large portion of the anti-Urbie crowd over to their side, and hinted that needing to change how the engines work was the big thing preventing it being added.

Since then I have assumed (dangerous I know) that, when they have the time, that is one of the things on their "to-do list"
Not holding my breath (they have a LOT on that list) but I am waiting.

I would think it's coming. From the standpoint of an accountant (which I am), it makes no sense not to try to cash in on a mech that clearly a lot of people would buy, even if they bought it as a lark.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Dawnstealer, on 10 July 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

I would think it's coming. From the standpoint of an accountant (which I am), it makes no sense not to try to cash in on a mech that clearly a lot of people would buy, even if they bought it as a lark.

There was that as well.

Hillslam, on 10 July 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

Every day I see this thread update.

Every day I get excited.

Every day I am disappoint.

Patience

It is not coming any time soon - but is will come.... soon^tm

[Cybersniper Vickers]

If we're gonna dream, we might as well go off the deep end.

I like the tow-able idea. Imagine the fun when your mech spins around, to reveal it
has an Urbie tail gunner back there. Also special paint schemes, like a recycle blue
with that symbol on it. Disguised Urbies all over town, trying to look like trashcans
and all of that.

[HlynkaCG]

Dawnstealer, on 10 July 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

I'm not sure if this is an ESL thing or not: I've repeatedly said the Urbanmech has enough variants.

In other words, the Urbanmech is not one of the mechs I'm talking about that lacks variants.

I...don't know another way to put that, but by all means post another list of the variants of Urbanmechs, I guess?

You said...

Quote

...but those variants aren't very different from another. I guess you could retcon it, or do some handwaving with the hardpoints, but the actual stock variants are real similar to one another.

I was pointing out that no "handwaving " or "retconning" is required because Urbie variants have at least as much diversity in their hard-points as the various Atlas variants did and do.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 10 July 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

HlynkaCG, on 09 July 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

The UM-R62 was in one of the Solaris box sets as well as the Capellan Confederation Field Manual IIRC, all I know Is that I have a data-sheet for it in my old Mechwarrior RPG campaign files.

ETA
As for loadout, It ditches a heat-sink, adds a torso mounted machine gun, and has a slightly bigger engine.

Still slow as balls though

There's also the UM-R61 which is essentially a R60 with more ammo.

There isn't a UM-R62 in Field Manual: Capellan Confederation; the Random 'Mech Assignment Table (on page 123) lists the UM-R63, UM-R60L, and UM-R60, and the included record sheets are the CPLT-C5 Catapult,LHU-2B Lao Hu, MHL-2L Marshal, RVN-4L Raven, SYU-2B Sha Yu, and VND-4L Vindicator.

The UrbanMech is also not one of the 'Mech chassis listed as included in the Solaris box set (of which there is only one).

TRO 3039 states (on pg. 108) that, "The only major variant of the UrbanMech is an armless version. Despite possessing a further streamlined profile, the disadvantages of this design proved fatal, and so very few have survived to the present." The same entry then notes that the CCAF also fields the UM-R60L, with its Imperator-Zeta Class 20 Autocannon.
The armless variant is apocryphally designated "UM-R50", as a reference to the description given of it in the German version of TRO 3025.

TRO 3050 Revised states (on page 70) that, "The official Capellan refit kit seems to offer the most advantages. Replacing the Imperator-B Autocannon with the Mydron Excel LB 10-X enhances the 'Mech's firing range and accuracy, in addition to reducing its weight enough to allow other enhancements. This kit also substitutes the Magna 200P Small Pulse Laser for the Machine Gun, which helps discourage enemy infantry. Both these changes give the UrbanMech greater advantages in city fighting."
By contrast, TRO 3050 Upgrade states (on page 22) that, "The standard Capellan refit kit replaces the Imperator-B Autocannon with the Mydron Excel LB 10-X, enhancing the 'Mech's firing range and accuracy. This lighter weapon allows for the addition of a Magna 200P Small Pulse Laser for infantry suppression. Both of these changes further enhance the UrbanMech's capabilities in its role as an urban combatant." TRO 3050U makes no mention of the supposed Machine Gun that the Small Pulse Laser was stated to replace in the previous edition.

Additionally, there is no mention of a "UM-R62" in any of the official record sheet collections, or the Master Unit List, or BattleTech Engineer.

[Ovion]

You're thinking of the UM-R60C that the UM-R63 was modified from.
Only referenced in the UM-R63's flavour text.

I still wrote it up in my Urbanmech Thread though:

Ovion, on 04 July 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

From the tabletop, we can see that a Stock Urbanmech would be the following in MWO:

Spoiler

Urbanmech (30):
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UM-R60 - Stock:
Standard Structure
192pts of Standard Armour (96pts TT)
18/22/16/16/8/16/8/20/20/24/24
STD60 +7 Heat Sinks
1E, 1Bm 0M
1 Ac/10 (RA) + 1T Ammo (RT)
1 Small Laser (LA)
2 Jump Jets
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UM-R60C - Stock:
Standard Structure
192pts of Standard Armour (96pts TT)
18/22/16/16/8/16/8/20/20/24/24
STD60 +6 Heat Sinks
1E, 2B, 0M
1 Ac/10 (RA) + 1T Ammo (RT)
1 Small Laser (LA)
1 Machinegun (LT) + 1/2T Ammo
2 Jump Jets
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UM-R60L - Stock:
Standard Structure
128pts of Standard Armour (64pts TT)
12/16/8/12/6/12/6/12/12/16/16
STD60 +6 Heat Sinks
1E, 1B, 0M
1 Ac/20 (RA) + 1T Ammo (RT)
1 Small Laser (LA)
2 Jump Jets
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UM-R63 - Stock:
Standard Structure
192pts of Standard Armour (96pts TT)
18/22/16/16/8/16/8/20/20/24/24
STD60 +7 Heat Sinks
1E, 2B, 0M
1 LB 10-X AC (RA) + 1T Ammo (RT)
1 Small Laser (LA)
1 Small Pulse Laser (LT)
2 Jump Jets
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UM-R80 - Stock:
192pts of Standard Armour (96pts TT)
18/22/16/16/8/16/8/20/20/24/24
STD60 +8 Heat Sinks
4E, 0Bm 0M
1 PPC (Right Arm)
1 Small Pulse Laser (LT)
1 Small Laser (LA)
1 TAG (RA)
1 Guardian ECM (LT), 1 BAP (RT)
2 Jump Jets
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ideally the UM-R60 (if ever actually released) would have at least 2B, 1E, so it could be ran as an UMR60 or UM-R60C.


Additionally (according to the Mech Database on my phone) the Urbie variants are:
Innersphere:
UM-R60 (2675)
UM-R60L (2925)
UM-R63 (3050)
UM-R68 (3062)
UM-R69 (3063)
UM-R70 (3066)
UM-AIV (3072)
UM-R80 (3076)

As described in fluff:
UM-R50 (Pre 3025)
UM-R60C (Pre 3050)

Clan:
Urbanmech IIC (2849)
Urbanmech IIC 2 (3070)

Edited by Ovion, 10 July 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Ovion, on 10 July 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

You're thinking of the UM-R60C that the UM-R63 was modified from.
Only referenced in the UM-R63's flavour text.

This supposed "UM-R60C" is not mentioned by that name in any of TRO 3050 (UrbanMech flavor text on page 74), TRO 3050 Revised (pg. 70), or TRO 3050 Upgrade (pg. 22).
Nor does it appear in TRO 3039 (pg. 108), TRO 3025 (pg. 20), or TRO 3025 Revised (pg. 22).

What is your source (document & page number, or link) for that designation?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 10 July 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[Ovion]

Strum Wealh, on 10 July 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

This supposed "UM-R60C" is not mentioned in any of TRO 3050 (UrbanMech flavor text on page 74), TRO 3050 Revised (pg. 70), or TRO 3050 Upgrade (pg. 22).
Nor does it appear in TRO 3039 (pg. 108), TRO 3025 (pg. 20), or TRO 3025 Revised (pg. 22).

What is your source (document & page number) for that variant?

Quote

• Machine Gun version There is evidence in the Technical Readout: 3050 Revised (in the entry for the UM-R63 UrbanMech) that there is a contemporary variant of the classic UM-R60 that mounts a Machine Gun in the left torso. Although no subtype designation is known, the Capellan Confederation apparently used primarily this subtype: Their later UM-R63 upgrade was in fact based on this subvariant instead of the standard -R60, as the -R63's Small Pulse Laser is installed in the place of the Machine Gun. It can be speculated that this variant's Machine Gun and half a ton of ammo take the place of the curious and largely useless eleventh heat sink found on the standard -R60 and most other models including even the -R63. BV (1.0) = 448, BV (2.0) = 492

UM-R60C(apellan) Easier than 'Machine Gun Version'

Edited by Ovion, 10 July 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

HlynkaCG, on 10 July 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

You said...



I was pointing out that no "handwaving " or "retconning" is required because Urbie variants have at least as much diversity in their hard-points as the various Atlas variants did and do.

Try again - you didn't pull the whole quote I think because you re-read it and saw what it actually said:

Quote

And to the other comments: they [the other mechs I mentioned, NOT, and I want to make this absolutely clear: NOT the Ubie] DO have "enough variants," but those variants aren't very different from another. I guess you could retcon it, or do some handwaving with the hardpoints, but the actual stock variants are real similar to one another.

That bit where I specifically say I'm not talking about the Urbie is important.

[HlynkaCG]

Strum Wealh, on 10 July 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

There isn't a UM-R62 in Field Manual: Capellan Confederation; the Random 'Mech Assignment Table (on page 123) lists the UM-R63, UM-R60L, and UM-R60, and the included record sheets are the CPLT-C5 Catapult,LHU-2B Lao Hu, MHL-2L Marshal, RVN-4L Raven, SYU-2B Sha Yu, and VND-4L Vindicator.

The UrbanMech is also not one of the 'Mech chassis listed as included in the Solaris box set (of which there is only one).

TRO 3039 states (on pg. 108) that, "The only major variant of the UrbanMech is an armless version. Despite possessing a further streamlined profile, the disadvantages of this design proved fatal, and so very few have survived to the present." The same entry then notes that the CCAF also fields the UM-R60L, with its Imperator-Zeta Class 20 Autocannon.
The armless variant is apocryphally designated "UM-R50", as a reference to the description given of it in the German version of TRO 3025.

Well *&^)O,

I guess I don't recall correctly then but cut me some lack it's been a good 15 years and my old game files (we're talking actual paper files here) aren't exactly sorted by original source. My only other guess would be that it came from one of BattleTech Magazine's RPG scenarios and got mixed in with my Solaris stuff at some point.

Dawnstealer, on 10 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

That bit where I specifically say I'm not talking about the Urbie is important.

I think I read your post more carefully than you did.

Yes you said that the Urbie had enough variants (unlike the others that you listed) but that...

Quote

...those variants aren't very different from another. I guess you could retcon it, or do some handwaving with the hardpoints, but the actual stock variants are real similar to one another.

To which I replied that they are about as similar to one another as the stock Atlas variants, and many other mechs already in the game.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 11 July 2014 - 03:08 AM.

[wanderer]

Yeah, the Urbie is strange in that we -know- it's got a variant that never got a sheet, thanks to tech readout info. Because of it, that variant is fan-designated two different ways depending on where you're reading- some call it the -60C along the same lines as, say the Atlas-K and tack on the C for Capellan as it's a direct variant to the -60 and -L is the AC/20 version, others call it the -62 because it's also the direct predecessor to the -63. It's one and the same- the 3025-tech variant that swapped the 11th heatsink in the Urbanmech for an MG + 1/2 ton of ammo.

That might help clear up some of the confusion.

[stjobe]

MonkeyCheese, on 10 July 2014 - 12:17 AM, said:

Anyway what would be the theoretical max speed say with an xl engine in an urbanmech in the mwo system?

Well, MWO puts an upper limit on 1.4 times the stock engine rating for light 'mechs, so the max engine rating would be 60 * 1.4 = 84.

How fast does an 85-rated engine make a 30-ton 'mech go? Well, a 100-rated engine makes a 30-ton 'mech go 54 kph (59.4 with speed tweak), so slower than that.

The stock Urbie should go 32.4 kph, so my guess would be that an Urbie with an 85-rated engine would do 45.9 kph (54 kph - 32.4 = 21.6; 21.6 / 8 = 2.7; 2.7 * 5 = 13.5; 32.4 + 13.5 = 45.9).

Edit: Maths, my old nemesis, we meet again!

Edited by stjobe, 20 July 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

stjobe, on 20 July 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Well, MWO puts an upper limit on 1.4 times the stock engine rating for light 'mechs, so the max engine rating would be 60 * 1.4 = 84.

How fast does an 85-rated engine make a 30-ton 'mech go? Well, a 100-rated engine makes a 30-ton 'mech go 54 kph (59.4 with speed tweak), so slower than that.

The stock Urbie should go 32.4 kph, so my guess would be that an Urbie with an 85-rated engine would do 45.9 kph (54 kph - 32.4 = 21.6; 21.6 / 8 = 2.7; 2.7 * 5 = 13.5; 32.4 + 13.5 = 45.9).

Edit: Maths, my old nemesis, we meet again!

It's actually just two equations:

• Without Speed Tweak: 10.8*1.5*((Engine Rating)/(Mech Tonnage)) = 16.20*((Engine Rating)/(Mech Tonnage))
  
• With Speed Tweak: 1.10*10.8*1.5*((Engine Rating)/(Mech Tonnage)) = 17.82*((Engine Rating)/(Mech Tonnage))

An UrbanMech with an 85-rated Engine (STD vs XL makes no difference) would have a top speed of 45.90 kph without Speed Tweak, and 50.49 kph with Speed Tweak.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Okay, for like, the 5th or 6th time...

PGI can give the UrbanMechs an engine cap of 150, and there would be no problems. They don't have to stick with 1.4x Stock Engine because they're the freaking designers. They can make it whatever they like.

[IraqiWalker]

Prosperity Park, on 20 July 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Okay, for like, the 5th or 6th time...

PGI can give the UrbanMechs an engine cap of 150, and there would be no problems. They don't have to stick with 1.4x Stock Engine because they're the freaking designers. They can make it whatever they like.

Not sure about that. The UI shows engines for each mech possibly by following that equation.

Either way, yes, they might be able to find a way to do it. I personally just want them to put the mech in here. It could even use the fixed stock engine solution.

[Sug]

Dawnstealer, on 10 July 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

it makes no sense not to try to cash in on a mech that clearly a lot of people would buy, even if they bought it as a lark.

As long as it's priced as a lark.

Also it needs something funny like an R2D2 skin or a needlessly huge muzzleflare. It's not a serious mech and it needs to be marketed as such.

We don't a hundred "ZOMG FIX THE URBANMECH PLZ!!!" threads the week it comes out because people aren't in on the joke and spent 15$ worth of MC on a slow IS light.

[stjobe]

stjobe, on 20 July 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

The stock Urbie should go 32.4 kph, so my guess would be that an Urbie with an 85-rated engine would do 45.9 kph

Strum Wealh, on 20 July 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

An UrbanMech with an 85-rated Engine (STD vs XL makes no difference) would have a top speed of 45.90 kph without Speed Tweak, and 50.49 kph with Speed Tweak.

Not a bad guess from my side then

Thanks for the equations, I had forgotten about those

[General Pete]

You know... there was an Urbanmech IIC... Even the Clans decided to use urbanmechs!
What if the Urbie was Clan only? That could make it more playable, though I'd still miss the original...

[Cimarb]

IraqiWalker, on 20 July 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Not sure about that. The UI shows engines for each mech possibly by following that equation.

Either way, yes, they might be able to find a way to do it. I personally just want them to put the mech in here. It could even use the fixed stock engine solution.

There are exceptions to that rule already. It is not a technology issue - it is a design choice.

[stjobe]

General Pete, on 21 July 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

What if the Urbie was Clan only?

There would be rage the likes of which you have never even dreamt of.

The Urbie is an IS 'mech; those vat-bred racial supremacists can't even come up with original designs.