193 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

Lukoi, on 01 April 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

What's your source. That's what he asked.

Historical: Operation Klondike, p. 37 - "Origins of the Bloodnames: The Clans' Founders" Clan Widowmaker

[Craig Steele]

Will9761, on 01 April 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

It is not an honoring, but it is used as more of a sign of infamy. But Bandits Caste members favored the logo due to the Widowmaker's reputation.

Well, I checked Warriors of Kerensky which has a specific "Dark Caste" section and that makes no mention of an emblem / symbol.

I checked Operation Klondike for Widow Maker and that has no mention of their symbol being used subsequently. There is a reference that "very few' Clan Widowmaker warrior survived (so my "none survived comment was incorrect") but this reads that they were taken into Clan Wolf, not escaped to the Dark Caste.

So I am still no wiser on your canon source that the Black Widow is the symbol for the Dark Caste.

If anything, given they are made up of people leaving all the time from everywhere, I suspect every little town / planet / holding has its own symbol for itself. They would fight amongst themselves more than the Clans I suspect.

Sorry to belabour the point, just I would really like to know the canon that supports that symbol usage as it is news to me.

EDIT. Pg 37 is just the panel of the names in my edition, can you direct to the wording please?

Edited by Craig Steele, 01 April 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[Will9761]

No problem, but it could happen for some future Dark Caste members or individuals.

Edited by Will9761, 01 April 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

In several of the novels where Bandits/DC are mentioned, they are clearly harboring members from multiple clans, cast-offs, Trials failures who refused to be relegated to lesser castes instead of fighting etc.

Noe, I think your symbolism is as reasonable as it can be given your (rightful imo) desire to keep it neutral...of the Clans, not of a Clan, so doubt you need to introduce a spider symbol at all.

[Craig Steele]

@ Noesis.

So if I take my Clan hat off, I admire your concept. Giving a home to Clanners who don't have a home I can see where you are coming from.

Putting my Clan hat back on, you better buy a flame suit for anyone interested in the lore. Cause the Dark Caste is enemy number one in Clan Space.

So keep your chin up and treat it in good humour as you intend and good luck

[Will9761]

I wish you luck in getting new members, Noesis.

[Noesis]

Edited by Noesis, 02 April 2014 - 05:45 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Craig Steele, on 01 April 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

Well, I checked Warriors of Kerensky which has a specific "Dark Caste" section and that makes no mention of an emblem / symbol.

I checked Operation Klondike for Widow Maker and that has no mention of their symbol being used subsequently. There is a reference that "very few' Clan Widowmaker warrior survived (so my "none survived comment was incorrect") but this reads that they were taken into Clan Wolf, not escaped to the Dark Caste.

So I am still no wiser on your canon source that the Black Widow is the symbol for the Dark Caste.

If anything, given they are made up of people leaving all the time from everywhere, I suspect every little town / planet / holding has its own symbol for itself. They would fight amongst themselves more than the Clans I suspect.

Sorry to belabour the point, just I would really like to know the canon that supports that symbol usage as it is news to me.

EDIT. Pg 37 is just the panel of the names in my edition, can you direct to the wording please?

He is right though Craig. The Widowmaker symbol is the unofficial logo of the dark caste. I know I have seen it somewhere, I will just have to find where. For now, take it on my word.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 02 April 2014 - 01:36 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Jaroth Corbett, on 02 April 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

He is right though Craig. The Widowmaker symbol is the unofficial logo of the dark caste. I know I have seen it somewhere, I will just have to find where. For now, take it on my word.

Sure, I didn't say he was wrong, just that I never heard of it and it didn't ring with my understanding of the Dark Caste. I couldn't imagine the symbol being 'awarded' by the Clans and they kinda don't have a ruling leader so an overall symbol 'self annointed' so to speak seems redundant.

I went all over Klondike and I see nothing there so maybe my edition is older than his? IDK.

But if you got it I'd appreciate the clarity

[CyclonerM]

Well, i was actually pretty surprised when i first saw this in the Grand Council forum.. Officially, from a RP point i could not have any relation with you and your bandits.. But unoficially, good luck on your effort to give a home to the rejected warriors of the Clans

If this thing about the Widowmaker logo unofficially representing the Dark Caste is proved to be correct, i would actually suggest you to adopt it for your group. The final choice is yours of course

Now what will you do with the Grand Council website? I am not entirely sure that anyone would allow a Dark Caste member in the sacred chambers of the Hall of the Khans on Strana Mechty

P.S. If we shall see you in the battlefield expect to be hunted without mercy

[Noesis]

CyclonerM, on 02 April 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Now what will you do with the Grand Council website? I am not entirely sure that anyone would allow a Dark Caste member in the sacred chambers of the Hall of the Khans on Strana Mechty

It depends I think whether the idea of the Clan Council recognises all aspects of the Clan culture in terms of things from a player perspective even if from a lore aspect the Dark Caste has no representation on the council or being recognised as part of that Clan culture from an RP perspective.

As such I don't expect any recognition or representation on the council itself, but there may be decisions made or discussed within the forum that may be relevant or applicable to all Clan members irrespective of what caste they belong to within the MWO player culture. Certainly the use of Clan tech and gaming mechanics has relevance to the Dark Caste as much as the Clan warrior castes.

As such it would be nice to remain a recognised member of the Clan gaming community even if for obvious reasons the Dark Caste has no representation with the Clan Council leadership.

[Jon Gotham]

Well, whatever people think about it-I think it's an interesting idea. One I wish every success too frankly. Might even be tempted myself!

[Noesis]

[Dalen]

Hey Noesis,

Good luck with your new endevour, sounds like you have a real challenge on your hands. I like the concept though, hopefully it works out for you! I am leaving my contact form for future reference.

Welcome from the Templar's. I would like to Introduce myself, my in game name is Dalen. I am the Foreign minister for the Templar's. We as a community would like to develop a communication link between our respective leadership groups. We feel this will provide beneficial clarification and information on issues and events between our communities going forward. In games like this we are all aware of the need for honest, clear and effective communications between groups to minimize unnecessary misunderstandings. I would like to ask from your community to reply back to me with a member of your leadership I can set up regular communications with and your preferred method.
If there are any communities out there wanting to sync drop 12 mans with the Templar's please contact me. I will do my best to match your groups time availability with one of our banners. We will also be opening up our crusade competition soon for outside teams to participate in. Any questions or concerns please contact Dalen (Foreign Minister)Templar's.
Cheers,
Dalen

[Noesis]

Thanks Dalen,

Hope things are going well with the Templars. Please also send my regards to Dom.

I'd be happy to set up links even though as a group still trying to establish things. If you want to register on our site I can set up appropriate diplomatic permissions. I intentionally want to keep things as open as possible in the DB community, even with the idea of Clan members joining the site if they wish and subsequently being recognised as Clanners instead of Dark Born. The Dark Born site then not to be kept in the Dark as an exclusive clique so to speak.

I would also like to get to a point of being able to join various community interests and events at some stage (where possible) so it may be beneficial for me to reprsent some diplomatic connections over at the Templars if this seems acceptable to you?

[ManaValkyrie]

@ Noesis

Good luck with your endeavour, I can see both sides of the fences lore/RP wise and reality wise. You managed to poke a niche that with the nature of how MWO is presently and likely to remain for a while an area where people who support the clans but don't have an involvement in a specific unit can still enjoy teamwork and some good casual play.

[Tetryon88]

Glad to see you guys trying to put together a neutral area where people can side with the clans but not get caught up by specific clan archtypes.

/clan hat on: You will be hunted down like the dogs you are

Edited by Tetryon88, 03 April 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[Edward Mattlov]

Tetryon88, on 03 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Glad to see you guys trying to put together a neutral area where people can side with the clans but not get caught up by specific clan archtypes.

/clan hat on: You will be hunted down like the dogs you are

There are already the Wolf's Dragoons. I am still holding to my prediction that 90% of IS players will jump to the clans.

[Noesis]

Edward Mattlov, on 03 April 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

There are already the Wolf's Dragoons. I am still holding to my prediction that 90% of IS players will jump to the clans.

The Wolf Dragoons will however shortly become Wardens and break away from their Standing orders from Clan Wolf in the near future.

[Craig Steele]

Noesis, on 03 April 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

The Wolf Dragoons will however shortly become Wardens and break away from their Standing orders from Clan Wolf in the near future.

Wolf Dragoons supposedly 'abandon' their mission sometime around 3039 when they stopped sending reports back to Clan space.

Field Manual Mercenaries details their decision not to return to Clan Space to rebuild after the 4th succession war as they feared being 'ordered' to stay in Clan Space and they had already decided by then they would fight against the Clans. There is no date though next to this description.

There is something somewhere about he Clans hearing about 3039 from Wolf Dragoons but I can't lay my hands on that source atm. But there are no subsequent reports back to Clan space AFAIK.

Deduction is therefore around 3039?