18 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

I'm not a new player (been around since CB) but i've never heard an explanation of what brawling actually is.
To me brawling means getting close to the enemy and just smashing each other to bits, ignoring any use of cover. If i'm in my JM6-S i'll fire on anyone i see who is within max range but my goal is to get as close as possible to the enemy by using cover then blast them with AC's.
Is that brawling? What exactly is brawling?

[oldradagast]

I doubt there's any formal definition, but here's how I would define brawling - look for the following 2 characteristics to be common in any brawl in MWO:

1) Close range combat: Well within range of SRM's and the AC20. Also, possibly under LRM range. So, at this range, all close-in weapon systems are operating at full damage while long-range weapon systems are at risk of being under their minimum damage range.

2) Movement is more important than cover: At longer ranges, Mechs avoid damage mostly with careful use of cover. You peak out from behind a rock, shoot, and then retreat. Or, maybe you jump up, shoot, and fall back behind cover. You get the idea. At close range - when brawling - you are more focused on moving around the enemy to avoid their most dangerous weapons and rolling your mech from side to side to spread damage. Cover can still come into play, but it is mostly brief since the mechs are very close to each other and moving around a lot.

Anyway, I hope that helps offer some perspective on what brawling is, or at least how I see it vs. long range combat.

Edited by oldradagast, 01 April 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Yeah, if you can use LRMs, it's not brawling. I'd say typically within a 100m, but I'd say out to 179m counts.

[splatjax]

In a nutshell, Using nothing but close range weapons (usually doing higher damage due to short range restriction) and getting very close like 100 to 350 meters and shooting. Weapons brawlers use are AC20, AC10, Med Pulse Lasers, Med Lasers, Small Pulse Lasers, Small Laser, Flamers(suck dont use them), Machine guns(only good when armor is exposed), SRM(short range missiles).

Weapons such as LRM(long range missle) wont hit if your target is closer than 180m, but LRM can hit 1000m away. PPC(particle projectile cannon) do very good damage at long range, but if the target is closer than 180m the damage scales down quickly at say 20m it will do basicly no damage. AC2 only does 2 damage but has very long range high rate of fire, ac5 does more damge a little less range, slower rate of fire, ultra ac5 is another beast play with that later, it jams. LBX10 is a weird weapon i would advise messing with that later, its basicly a mech shotgun, it actulaly has good range, but low damge at longer ranges, it does very high damage to exposed armor locations, like a machine gun.

An example bralwer would be the hunchback mech. 5 Med Lasers and 2 SRM6. Tactics: Use cover and stealth to close distance, spring from behind cover, or ambush a mech, shooting all weapons at the same time. with the example build you would be at about 250 to 300 meters or closer and fire all weapons, if they all hit you would do 32 damage in one strike, enough to kill small mechs, another shot could take out a medium mech, or blow an atlas arm off for example.

oh and last thing brawlers usually use STANDARD engins over XL ENGINES, becaues the XL engine is 3 time more vunrable to you getting killed and brawers need max armor.

[Koniving]

Brawling is the act of fighting within extremely close range, 270 meters or less, without concern for cover or your surroundings, in a way that allows you to pulverize your enemy while feeling like a badass.

In Battletech, this included the following:

• Rushing at the enemy at top speed.
  
• Shooting the enemy with everything you could in a mech built for DPS and endurance (never shut down).
  
• Getting close enough to begin punching and kicking the mech.
  
• If possible, pulling up trees to use as batons or using things like battleaxes. Or (in the books) ripping off barrels or other parts of the enemy to use as clubs.

In MWO, it simply means the fighting up close, manuevering around each other, and never under any circumstances leaving 270 meters while beating each other down with whatever you can. The common assumption is it requires SRMs, but in fact it doesn't.

Brawling can mean the following.

The ideal epitome of brawling. Fang versus Fang. This incredibly fun fight is the sort of brawling that has been lost in MWO.


Brawling in MWO with Melee.


Other gems found in here.

Spoiler

Brawling; staged. Back then ACs didn't distort aim.


Brawling in MWO against multiple targets in an urban environment.


Brawling Dragon takes out Atlases and other mechs.


In the later half of this, my Atlas brawls to defend the base.


Two and a half minutes in this LRM Apocalypse Atlas begins brawling with another, very poorly built Atlas. Both mechs have standard heatsinks. Closed beta.


Urban brawling in a way that's been lost since Armlock (bad) and host state rewind (good).


A more modern brawling session about 2:19 in (watch for the enemy brawling Atlas and my offer to brawl).


What frequently passed for brawling, back when Streaks required Skill to use. In other words they rarely hit unless you were a certain distance away and had them generally in front of you.

Modern brawling.

Spoiler

<--most modern.

[Dawnstealer]

I really wish they'd bring knock-down back. I mean, it obviously wasn't implemented right, but it was a nice feature. Something better would be if you wobbled like you were drunk and if you didn't make the correction in time, THEN you fell over (so the equivalent of a TT "pilot check").

It would just be nice if that Jenner or Commando couldn't just slam itself into your crotch without consequences.

And anyone who knows me, knows I want the Hatchetman implemented, and would LOVE to see actual melee (at least punching) brought in (at least for mechs with fists).

[Wolfways]

Thanks all for the info. I've never thought of myself as a brawler as i prefer long-ranged combat but i seem to end up in a brawl more often than i realized

splatjax, on 01 April 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

PPC(particle projectile cannon) do very good damage at long range, but if the target is closer than 180m the damage scales down quickly at say 20m it will do basicly no damage.

I've been away for a little while but the last change to the PPC that i'm aware of is that it no longer does any damage under 90m (which has always been the minimum range for PPC's). Did that change?

[CCC Dober]

There is one video that comes to mind here. It's got all the ingredients that make brawling (close quarter combat) what it is: Solaris 7 arena battle, Duncan Fisher commentary, LBX autocannons and DFA (death from above). See for yourself

[Remedy 6]

You can even ram people if you're really desperate.

[Darth Futuza]

To me most of what this Mech does is brawling:

[Marvyn Dodgers]

Yes, PPC under 90m isn't worth the heat . . .

[TheCaptainJZ]

splatjax, on 01 April 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

PPC(particle projectile cannon) do very good damage at long range, but if the target is closer than 180m the damage scales down quickly at say 20m it will do basicly no damage.

Wolfways, on 01 April 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

I've been away for a little while but the last change to the PPC that i'm aware of is that it no longer does any damage under 90m (which has always been the minimum range for PPC's). Did that change?

That is correct. Minimum range is 90 meters (always has been) but now does NO damage. In fact, they also patched it recently (I think?) to not counter ECM within 90 meters either.

[Darth Futuza]

ER-PPC on the other hand, are beautiful things that can be fired at point blank range into enemies cockpits as you fly over their heads.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Darth Futuza, on 02 April 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

ER-PPC on the other hand, are beautiful things that can be fired at point blank range into enemies cockpits as you fly over their heads.

The heat though! The Heat!

In other news - contrary to popular opinion (or rather -vocal opinion?)
I have been doing a lot of brawling lately - even and especially on Alpine.
To the point where I have been stripping a lot of the LRM off many of my builds (that used them as backup weapons anyways)

[Darth Futuza]

Shar Wolf, on 02 April 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

The heat though! The Heat!

Yes, well there must be balance or my Jenner would be earning the Deathstar achievement every match.

[cSand]

Brawling is


the most fun you can have

[Alaskan Nobody]

cSand, on 02 April 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

Brawling is


the most fun you can have

Debatable

The most fun I have had, was skirting the edge of the brawl chain-firing 3 LRM5 (back during the 120 speed) and an AC/5 from my Centurion - occasionally running through the brawl, either to provide extra armor to a team-mate in need (that shield arm covers more than just me after all) or just to sow chaos in the other team.

Wouldn't have happened if there hadn't been a brawl though.

[Darth Futuza]

Dawnstealer, on 01 April 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

I really wish they'd bring knock-down back. I mean, it obviously wasn't implemented right, but it was a nice feature. Something better would be if you wobbled like you were drunk and if you didn't make the correction in time, THEN you fell over (so the equivalent of a TT "pilot check").

It would just be nice if that Jenner or Commando couldn't just slam itself into your crotch without consequences.

Agreed and I want DFA's brought back. Kicking opponent's in the face use to be so much fun.

[Kjudoon]

Yeah.... equipment issues aside, I'm so not ever desiring to be a brawler. But I support those who want to be! For me, brawling is what happens when I don't mech correctly.

I'm still gonna be the LRM mech that forces you to use cover and be smart about it though.

Edited by Kjudoon, 02 April 2014 - 04:21 PM.