98 replies to this topic

[JayVrb]

I watched the Developer Video Log, I do not agree with their reasoning for reducing the agility of the Victor. I'd like to explain why.

First, the Victor was known for being an agile mech. It is now inline with the Atlas as far as torso-movement is concerned, a mech weighing 20 tons heavier. Second, the Victor doesn't have a great deal of armor to begin with, which ties back to my point #1: it's agility helped it's survivability (the Awesome suffers a similar "armor disadvantage" but that's due to it's profile more than anything). Third, making the Victor less agile isn't going to address poptarting in the positive way you may think it is. Poptarting is typically a 400meter and greater issue. At that distance, people are sniping which doesn't really require a good deal of mobility to begin with since it's more fine motoring. Fourth, the Victor was a good brawler (both in MWO and referenced as such in Lore). With these agility nerfs, brawling in a Victor is like brawling in an Atlas... with 20 tons less of everything.

I truly hope MWO reconsiders the Victor mobility changes, as it was one of my most prized mechs due to it's agility and brawling potential. I understand that they are trying to address the poptart meta, but in doing so they have inadvertently crippled the brawling capabilities of this mech.

**EDIT 4/3/14**
Below you'll find my Victor 9S build stats before the patch reset (this screenshot as of November '13, I pulled it from another thread)



The reason I'm posting this is because these stats were achieved solely by brawling (I may have stuck 1 AC5 on there but it was never a long-ranger), something that I (and many others) will be affected by in similar builds. These stats aren't amazing, they're also not terrabad... but they're about to become terrabad unless I bend to the long range meta that Victor is now almost forced into.

Edited by Vrbas, 03 April 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[FireSlade]

I used to run a 360xl in my 9K and now it seems just a waste of tons where a much smaller engine will suffice.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

its typical PGI to nerf something that isnt even related to pop-tarting.

like for pulses to actually out-energy other energy weapons at close ranges. even with the latest buffs to the LPL i still never run more then one and often i find the LL+ML combo to be far more effective and less heat than a single LPL.

[Foxfire]

there is really an odd situation for mechs like the victor.. in that it is really that filler between heavy heavies and heavy assaults... It really needs to have agility over the heavier assault mechs but, from what I could tell, the maneuverability was really above that of the lighter assaults and heavier heavies in many cases.

[Turist0AT]

PGI should reconsider all their nerfs, will start with ghost heat and Ctp-A1

[Nauht]

They're not going to do it. This is the same company that decided to put the DS on sale one week prior to the nerf try and milk as much out of it as they could.

They knew full well no-one would touch the DS after the nerf and they put it up for sale with the full knowledge of what they planned to do. Just plain underhanded and unethical, to put it in polite language.

[Undecided]

The Dragon Slayer was the first Hero assault mech I bought and it looks like it will be my last. I would not have purchased it if I had known PGI was going to nerf it to the point where the ONLY thing it can do competitively is poptart a few days later. I don't know why they choose such dramatic reduction in maneuverability aimed solely at this chassis, while leaving other poptarts like, oh say the Highlander, the other king of snipers unmolested. If the issue was that assaults in general were too nimble then why not apply changes to the whole weight class?

If it was too strong a mech for the sniping meta then surly nerfing the characteristics that made it a good sniper would be the best course of action, not robbing of it's uniqueness to the point where an 80 ton mech is comparable to an Atlas in maneuverability (both my Atlai and Victor usually mount 340 engines making the two classes of mech practically identical in terms of turning radius making the nerf seem absolutely absurd).

I wanted to get into Victors precisely because they were highly maneuverable assaults and that was an aspect of the game I had not yet experienced. I currently spend too much money on this game, but I'm strongly considering changing my habits regarding buying mechs with real money. If the devs reserves the right to nerf a chassis into the ground seemingly on a whim than I can't justify shelling out cash for mechs that might be worthless next patch. It seems especially disingenuous that PGI choose to put the Dragon Slayer on sale just before it was hobbled.

Edited by Undecided, 02 April 2014 - 01:39 AM.

[Veranova]

It wasn't related to Poptarting in the first place.

It was related to the Victor being as agile as a medium, which is something most large 'mechs suffer from.
This is the first phase of a wider balancing campaign, where all classes will have their agility re-balanced.

Poptarting however was controlled by the JJ nerf. it's hurt a poptart's DPS, as they can't pop as often. Meaning it's best to hill hump a little and expose yourself.

[skorpionet]

Undecided, on 02 April 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

The Dragon Slayer was the first Hero assault mech I bought and it looks like it will be my last. I would not have purchased it if I had known PGI was going to nerf it to the point where the ONLY thing it can do competitively is poptart a few days later [...]

same here, then +1

[Flyto]

IMHO *all* the assaults, and most of the heavies, are too agile. But that isn't a reason to nerf just one of them..... ;-)

[Vaenson]

In my opinion the victor is still a strong mech...but true that the brawling capabilities got cut a bit. All in its a fast assault with high firepower and good armour. Without the nerve maybe one of the best chassis in the game. Just for comparrision....it has for example more firepower, higher speed, armour and jumpjets compared to a jaeger.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Veranova, on 02 April 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

It wasn't related to Poptarting in the first place.

It was related to the Victor being as agile as a medium, which is something most large 'mechs suffer from.
This is the first phase of a wider balancing campaign, where all classes will have their agility re-balanced.

This.

[cry-]

Veranova, on 02 April 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

It wasn't related to Poptarting in the first place.

It was related to the Victor being as agile as a medium, which is something most large 'mechs suffer from.
This is the first phase of a wider balancing campaign, where all classes will have their agility re-balanced.

Poptarting however was controlled by the JJ nerf. it's hurt a poptart's DPS, as they can't pop as often. Meaning it's best to hill hump a little and expose yourself.

Part of what made the Victor so agile was the ability to use high level XL Engines without much survivability-loss. They should have brought the class III JJs in line with the Highlander's class IV. I loved to brawl with my Standard-Engine Victor. Playstyle is indeed reduced to jumpsniping now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nauht, on 02 April 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

They're not going to do it. This is the same company that decided to put the DS on sale one week prior to the nerf try and milk as much out of it as they could.

They knew full well no-one would touch the DS after the nerf and they put it up for sale with the full knowledge of what they planned to do. Just plain underhanded and unethical, to put it in polite language.

Not sure I agree.

DS is Right Side Stackable.

IMO, NOT truly ideal for brawling, as you tend to be surrounded, since you can't always dictate which side is drawing fire (and since the best brawling VTRs used XLs, you only had the left arm to sacrifice anyhow, not the left side like a HBK).

Side stacking has always been more desirable for the Poptart meta, because big engines and high speeds are not required.
Thus all the weapons are easy to hit with in tandem, and you have half the mech as extra "armor" above and beyond.

Of course the HGN does this, arguably better, but out of all the VTRs, the DS is the best suited for poptarting still.

[Bishop Steiner]

Veranova, on 02 April 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

It wasn't related to Poptarting in the first place.

It was related to the Victor being as agile as a medium, which is something most large 'mechs suffer from.
This is the first phase of a wider balancing campaign, where all classes will have their agility re-balanced.

Poptarting however was controlled by the JJ nerf. it's hurt a poptart's DPS, as they can't pop as often. Meaning it's best to hill hump a little and expose yourself.

Meh, Poptarts never worry that much about speed. It's nice they are laying out less DPS (and even less when suppressed, though hardly overshadowed by, LRMs), but the basic Poptart mentality won't ever change. Longer recharge won't cause them to expose themselves any more often, for the most part.

Apparently it's fun to get online to play a Pogostick Simulator.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 April 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[AntharPrime]

What nerf, I still see Victors moving on the battlefeild with an agility equal to medium mechs. They can stop on a dime and accelerate just as fast as a medium. A Victor pilot that uses this to advantage along with JJ is still very hard to hit at range.

[Bishop Steiner]

AntharPrime, on 02 April 2014 - 04:04 AM, said:

What nerf, I still see Victors moving on the battlefeild with an agility equal to medium mechs. They can stop on a dime and accelerate just as fast as a medium. A Victor pilot that uses this to advantage along with JJ is still very hard to hit at range.

Really? Do you actually pilot a Victor?

Because I did. And my other pet rides are ShadowHawks, Griffins and Firestarters. All of which I could run circles around VTRs (though admittedly,. it took some serious work with the Shad and Grif. Then again, since those mechs only run 10-20 kph faster with my builds than most brawling VTrs, that should be expected) my Victors, even the VTRs with 380+ class engines strapped in (which I don't recommend as it leaves you too light on the firepower, IMO). 1000+ Victor drops.

And the agility difference is HUGELY notable, as someone who used his as a Heavy Cav/Flanking Brawler. Before, I could drop into a group of slower Heavies and or Assaults, lay off a couple of alphas as I ran and twist, and have a reasonable chance of surviving to jump away. Now? Cored torsos galore, because the twist is very gimped. As is the turning.

It's linear speed is untouched, and I don't think they touched it's breaking, but it never changed it's momentum like my Mediums in the first place.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 April 2014 - 04:13 AM.

[SgtMagor]

The Victor was fine the way it was, highly mobile assault mech, only thing the mech had going for it was its mobility. better off with a phract-3D, Wolverine, and Shadow Hawk now.

[Iqfish]

The Victor was as agile as a medium, way more agile and fast than many Heavy Mechs and this is not the way an Assault mech is supposed to work.

I still love my DS and my other Victors, just get over it and adapt.

[FireSlade]

I still have yet to see where PGI and a few others are saying that it was more maneuverable than a heavy. Maybe it is me but I never followed the meta with the heavies to stick STD engines in and cower in fear of losing my ST. Running with the Victor before the nerf was like using a heavier Orion which it is. So I ran between 340xl and 360xl on them being able to flank with the extra speed and still hit hard. 76-80kph was a nice speed for it; now it feels like a waste of tons when the extra speed does not even help it out.