42 replies to this topic

[luxebo]

It makes sense. I saw that missiles were generally up and down sorta feeling, SRMs, SSRMs, and LRMs all being very strong at certain times throughout the making of the game. PPCs and ACs just boiled down to which ones and how many of each, and making the perfect combo (sorta with todays 2xPPC 2xAC5 or 2xPPC 1xAC20 builds these days.) Yeah, these are easier to use indeed, just have to fire at targets, and similar to how CoD and other shooters are, best weapons usually are quick and easy to use rather than the fancy ones that might even double damage output, just that people are lazy and want to use the easier ones (aka sniper rifle, assault rifle, spray and kill people weapons, etc.)

[Alzarns Fire]

And on the subject of metas - a bit of light humour. Courtesy of TheB33f. Enjoy

Edited by Alzarns Fire, 03 April 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Alzarns Fire, on 03 April 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

And on the subject of metas - a bit of light humour. Courtesy of TheB33f. Enjoy

Having seen a LOT of subtext put to this short clip...this is one of the funniest. Amazeballs

[BLOOD WOLF]

that vid made my day

[Alaskan Nobody]

Alzarns Fire, on 03 April 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

And on the subject of metas - a bit of light humour. Courtesy of TheB33f. Enjoy

I still dream of 24man Locust matches

[Bagheera]

ShinVector, on 01 April 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

Any noob in the previous Stalker Champion.. Could simple get a lock from distance and cause anyone pain..

Lol, no. That Stalker build was utter garbage and the person who designed it should feel really bad. The only pain it caused was to the people driving one and their team mates.

No Assault mech that slow should be killable for only the price of a side torso. Those things were just meat for the taking by any player with half a sense of how the game works.

Edited by Bagheera, 03 April 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[Sarlic]

Great post. You hit the nail on the head.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Most of the Issues revolving around the metagame can be narrowed down to high pinpoint alpha and dps. The ease of use when in combination with jumpjets only aggrivate the problem. Torso twisting on ALL assault mechs is also way to fast which makes them harder to disarm than you might think.

If PPC's did splash damage and Autocannons were 5 shot burstfire weapons we would not be having these problems simple as that. Untill that happens Pinpoint will reign supreme.

[kapusta11]

So it's not mechs but those who pilot them? Then why the hell are you whining when a more skilled pilot kills you?

Edited by kapusta11, 06 April 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

kapusta11, on 06 April 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

So it's not mechs but those who pilot them? Then why the hell are you whining when a more skilled pilot kills you?

The OP is being very subjective. Pinpoint damage is the problem. If an AC20 fired 5 shots of 4 damage per cycle over .5 seconds it would still be an awesome brawling weapon but it would not be quite as easymode as it is right now.

[Bobzilla]

The whole ppc+ac meta may not be op, but It Is optimal In this game. Pinpoint alphas are the fastest way to take out a mech. Range and cover are the best to stay alive. Ppc+ac take best advantage of those.

Edited by Bobzilla, 07 April 2014 - 03:58 AM.

[ShinVector]

Shar Wolf, on 03 April 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

I still dream of 24man Locust matches

That Streak Locust S would finally have a good use.

[Cord78]

Ghost Badger, on 02 April 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

....

It's not about the build...it's about how SMART you play. I was having terrible games last night in my 'balanced' Protector and my 2LL, 3xAC5 Muromets. Horrible games (with one okay game - 5 kills, 600 dmg - for me that we still lost). All I wanted to do was jump into something, watch stuff expode, and go home happy. Minimum effort. I was playing lazy, and dumb, and the numbers showed it. So, I jumped into my D-DC. My sneaky, brawler, 2LL, 3xSRM4, AC20 D-DC.

First game, 750 dmg, 3 kills, 8 assist. Second game 967 damage, 4 kills, 5 assists. Third game, 690 damage, 2 kills, 10 assists.

Instead of just getting into a high-damage metamech and wanting to "DESTROY EVERYTHING" I took a deep breath and starting using chat, and my brain.

It doesn't depend on meta-builds. It depends on KNOWING your build, and knowing what it does best.

And smart ECM helps.

And this highlights the problem I have all the time with my D-DC.... alot of times the majority of my PUG team has fast travelling mechs and they all take off and leave me behind. In their rush they have lost a huge resource and almost aways get wiped out. Of course then I am either stuck doing mop up agaist several lightly damaged mechs (light mech vs Altas not a fun scenario for the atlas) or I get steam rolled because the enemy comes around in a swarm and I have no support fending off multiple heavy/assaults.

Everytime I have even 2 med-heavy mechs stay with me we steam roll almost everything we run into unless we are badly outnumbered.


So my point is not just knowing how to pilot your mech but at least having an idea of whyat the other mechs in your team can do\ and especially not do.

[BourbonFaucet]

Pinpoint FLD has always been the problem. I'm OK with poptarting, really (despite my signature here), so long as 1 poptart has the same team value as, say, one missile support, one brawler, or one general fighter.

[luxebo]

Apparently, they moved this to the metagame discussion board. I guess I'm fine with that.

[Ruhkil]

I learned a bit about how to deal with meta mechs(the shooting the right side thing) from this thread generally i shoot things like boomjagers in the side torsos figuring that they must have XL torsos.

One thing that people in this thread have not dealt with is that its not a series of one on one fights. I know you guys already know that but it needs to be said.

Example:
a dumb boom jager is charging you across open ground but he hits the R key an enemy LRM boat is not asleep at the stick and starts blasting you with LRMS. The boom jager even though he is a complete idiot for charging across completely open terrain without regard to cover or sense just walks up to your lines(becuase your entire team is playing ridge peekabo and cant see the jager for some reason even though you hit the R key) because of his lrm boat buddy and(the jager) kills 3-5 people before dying.

To me the above is "teamwork" and a legit strategy but since the general theme of this thread is "meta mechs are situational". i felt that the point that these meta mechs are not alone and can have their situational disadvantages mitigated by teammates was an important one. The decisons of how should i run down that misery or highlander can be complicated by battlefield conditions quite quickly and we dont have voice comms to solict help.

Edited by Ruhkil, 13 April 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Lykaon]

luxebo, on 01 April 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

During the public test, not only did I test some regular, more standard builds that I would run (well some of them on this account, some on another), I also tried some other mech builds on another account, namely some 'meta' builds some of my friends just wanted to show me. I don't understand why people complain about them so much, they really aren't that powerful, but they're very situational.

The 5 that I tried with my friends are the CTF-IM (triple AC5 w/ triple med laser), HGN-733C (dual PPC dual Ultra AC5), BNC-3E (dual PPC triple AC5), JM6-S (dual AC20), and STK-M (dual PPC w/ AC20). All these are really situational

Yeah all of these mechs are total garbage unless the right situation occurs.As is see they totally suck unless you have enemy mechs to shoot at with your 30-40 point front loaded pinpoint alpha strikes that use the most favorable damage application method in the game.

To counter your reasons for why these superior mech builds are not superior.

My Illya does not use an XL it still moves faster than most assaults,if I have run out of ammo I have also fired 7 tons of AC5 ammo into the enemy and in all likelyhood destroyed 4-5 and severly mauled another 1-2.This also means we have pretty much won this game and my 2 medium lasers are sufficent to finish off the shot to pieces mechs that are left.Running out of ammo generally means we won.

Use a Heavy Metal Highlander and you don't have all your guns linked through the right torso (this is how I do it)

If a Banshee with a superior front loaded damage alpha of 35 is weak or slow then so will a less compitently armed banshee.So the AC5 and PPC banshee is superior as it has the better damage mechanics and range and has the same weakness of any banshee.

Same excuse used for a misery Stalker.You just said the chassis has these weaknesses so obviously if it uses the strongest loadout any other Misery would have performed worse.

The problem with these builds is they have the capacity to kill anything quickly and the best method for killing them is by using them to kill them.

So the one sure way to handle the meta is be meta.

Circular closed metas are boring.

[n r g]

Bobzilla, on 06 April 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

The whole ppc+ac meta may not be op, but It Is optimal In this game. Pinpoint alphas are the fastest way to take out a mech. Range and cover are the best to stay alive. Ppc+ac take best advantage of those.

Been this way since MW4 and probably earlier when teams that followed these tactics tend to dominate, yet instead of trying to get better, other players/teams complain about it in attempts to "nerf" these aspects and further dilute the gameplay.

[Modo44]

There are two different issues here. Yes, some people whine. However, the really good teams will tell you that some aspects of the game are too strong, i.e. always clearly dominating. It would be more interesting if there was more than one useful strategy.

Edited by Modo44, 11 May 2014 - 01:49 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Not to be nit-picky, but those "metabuilds" the OP listed are not even right and therefore would not be a valid test. Unless of course he had them built correctly in game and he just got lazy with the samples he posted...

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 May 2014 - 03:51 PM.