95 replies to this topic

[WintermuteOmega]

So...
That Lurmageddon thing huh? Turns out, it never really happened after all. As some predicted, LURMS got boring after 2 weeks, the sligt nerf to160 m/s and the missing LURMpocaypse Trial-Staker disappeared (which is a shame, i loved sidetorso them in a row). Now almost all LURM-Boats disappeared, we are back to the good old meta.

My toughts on this: I am actually a bit sad. Even though i turned off the game for 2 days after the Initial LRM-Buff to 180 m/s because i got shrapnelld way too much, in retrospect it was a much more strategic game. Role-Warfare was at it's best with ECM-Umbrellas, DUAL-AMS's and many Scouts. But i must admit, it wa no fun for slow brawlers.

I dropped in many games last night with a LOT of Phracts an even more AC's.The classis AC/PPC Combo is stll out there, but as i see it, heavy AC-Builds are taking over. I've seen Mechs with up to 4 AC/5s slamming the slugs in obscene rates.

There has been a small Revival of PPC-Stalkers lately too, at least it seemed like therewre some 4PPC's Staks around.

Also what i saw that there really were not as many poptarts around as per usual.


PGI already announced in the VLog #3 that AC's will get some changes. I think rightfully so, since they do high pinpoint damage and have the best range in the game.

Are there any infomations about how PGI is going to Change the AC's? Maybe Charge-functon for all of them ?
I know there have been some discussions about this, but no hard Facts.
Many seem to favor Burst-Mode for ACs which i do not favor, since it would make them also spread damage-type weapons.
Also a drop in range has been promoted.
Another option seems to be to drop Ammo/ton Ratio a bit, so ACs would be high Impact at thestart of the game, but almost None in the endgame, where everybody is out of ammo.
My 2 Cent are that since AC's are real ammo-slugs with weight, they should have the usual 2xmax range instead of 3x. Also most of them Need a way bigger dropoff. Especially AC2's, but AC5's fly almost in a straight line, which to me feels weird.

Is the PPC where it should be with its high Ghost heat penalty and ECM-Counter ability? I would prefer a splash-damage model: 6dmg in Location. 1dmg in each adjecent Location, since the PPC is a package of particles, instead of pinpoint stream of Energy or one solid pinpoint slug. possibly with reduction or elimination of MinRange.

The Gauss is IMHO fine where it is, being basically a sniper/railgun-type weapon with its drawback due to it's Charge-effect.

Lasers are nice, i maybe would give SL and LL a sligtly larger range.

SRMS and Streaks are fine damage-wise, they just have prove hit-detection wise. And the rebirth of SRMS will help brawlers massivly.

Flamers NEED to Change.

MG is good and well balanced.

Any toughts, ideas, comments?

Edited by WintermuteOmega, 02 April 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[El Bandito]

WintermuteOmega, on 02 April 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

My toughts on this: I am actually a bit sad. Even though i turned off the game for 2 days after the Initial LRM-Buff to 180 m/s because i got shrapnelld way too much, in retrospect it was a much more strategic game. Role-Warfare was at it's best with ECM-Umbrellas, DUAL-AMS's and many Scouts. But i must admit, it wa no fun for slow brawlers.

That is correct. LRM buff had brought out more role warfare than anything PGI did for the entire last year. Shame some people were too short sighted to see that and cried for nerf. I'm really hoping we won't go back to the old sniper dominated meta for another year, after this nerf.

Also, slow brawler is self-defeating in the present. With the addition of huge sized maps, if your brawler is not running near max engine, you should go home. The time for Frozen City/Forest Colony/River City dominated rotation is over.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 April 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[Ngamok]

Either way, I can still kill people when I run LRMs and did just fine at 120 m/s. Nothings changed for me really other than at 175 m/s I was able to hit lights more reliably rather than just one or two hitting them in the arms/legs.

[DarkDevilDancer]

When 8 or more people are boating LRM's thats an obvious sign that somethings wrong, it got real boring real fast and it came down to the team with the most ecm mechs and most LRM boats won.

Thats dull as crap and people in the games i was in were not having fun, i didn't appreciate having to use lrm's just to compete because i had no chance of getting in brawl range.

I got multikill games with my orion using LRM's before the patch at 120, going up to 175 was too much and the instant adoption of so many people shows how good they were.

Over all they still got a buff.

[WintermuteOmega]

Stepping into the open was always bad if there were LRM's on the lookout. But it is true that the good'ol 120s were very easy to dodge when peeking out of cover and falling back again.

[Mordin Ashe]

Agrees Ngamok. I made my 2xALRM-15 Catapult shine back when LRMs were THE bad choice of the year. Buffs from fortnight ago, if anything, made more people arm smaller launchers and bring TAG/NARC. But now, two weeks later, LRMs are almost back to where they were. Not as bad choice as before, but still not the most optimal. ACs still dominate.

DarkDevilDancer: What, 8 LRM boats mean something is wrong? What if 12 people boat ACs and Lasers, is something wrong then? A little logical consistence, please.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 02 April 2014 - 06:45 AM.

[Damocles69]

Whatever. As long as indirect fire remains a thing LRMs will be inpossible to properly balance. The ability to not be able to see a target yet reamaine safely in cover, deal damage, shake screen and blind a target with that rediculose smoke effect with chained LRM 5s is a toxic gameplay mechanic.

Ability to aim needs to be rewarded. Lack luster aim should be punished

Edited by Damocles69, 02 April 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[Tastian]

Damocles69, on 02 April 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Whatever. As long as indirect fire remains a thing LRMs will be inpossible to properly balance. The ability to not be able to see a target yet reamaine safely in cover, deal damage, shake screen and blind a target with that rediculose smoke effect with chained LRM 5s is a toxic gameplay mechanic.

Ability to aim needs to be rewarded. Lack luster aim should be punished

And what are your thoughts on Artillery Strike then?

[Charons Little Helper]

Damocles69, on 02 April 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Whatever. As long as indirect fire remains a thing LRMs will be inpossible to properly balance.

The word you're looking for is 'difficult' not 'inpossible' (which isn't a word).

I think part of the problem is that MWO shouldn't be balanced on a mech to mech basis, but on a team basis. You can't fire indirectly without your team being at risk.

Not to mention that by taking LRMs - you put yourself at greater risk from brawlers in general.

Oh - and LRM5 chaining? Take AMS if it's a big deal - the vast majority of the missiles will be shot down. (and shake was just lowered)

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 02 April 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Damocles69, on 02 April 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Whatever. As long as indirect fire remains a thing LRMs will be inpossible to properly balance. The ability to not be able to see a target yet reamaine safely in cover, deal damage, shake screen and blind a target with that rediculose smoke effect with chained LRM 5s is a toxic gameplay mechanic.

Ability to aim needs to be rewarded. Lack luster aim should be punished

Ability to aim is rewarded with a skillful kill
Lack Luster aim used to be punished in the Wallet.

Giving a poor shot the area effect weapon shows an intelligent commander. Not everyone can soot out someone's eye at 500M...

I actually trained at it... I am not a Natural

Tastian, on 02 April 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

And what are your thoughts on Artillery Strike then?

They are a Line Units Guardian Angels!

[Chemie]

I hated the last 2 weeks. Especially on small maps, it turned into 12-man blobs base camping each side and the winner being the one who had better locks or fewer idiot pugs wounder out in the open. I am all for suppression but it took things way to far where there were few options on many maps beyond hiding behind cover and hoping the other team had enough dummies who would get bored and push too soon.

[Damocles69]

Tastian, on 02 April 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

And what are your thoughts on Artillery Strike then?

That they should be toned back to 30 DMG, head shot RNG removed, and tied into the command consoule.

[Joseph Mallan]

Damocles69, on 02 April 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

1)That they should be toned back to 30 DMG, 2)head shot RNG removed, and 3)tied into the command consoule.

1) Maybe

2)Nope

3)Yes

[WintermuteOmega]

But mechanically not much happened since then. LRMS got a tiny nerf, but nobody uses them anymore, because they were only so deadly because 4 or more Players were using them on each side. That changed.
But iwould favor a LOS-Rule forLRMS unles they use C3 Units.

[Ngamok]

Mordin Ashe, on 02 April 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Agrees Ngamok. I made my 2xALRM-15 Catapult shine back when LRMs were THE bad choice of the year. Buffs from fortnight ago, if anything, made more people arm smaller launchers and bring TAG/NARC. But now, two weeks later, LRMs are almost back to where they were. Not as bad choice as before, but still not the most optimal. ACs still dominate.

DarkDevilDancer: What, 8 LRM boats mean something is wrong? What if 12 people boat ACs and Lasers, is something wrong then? A little logical consistence, please.

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=227120544

You'd think this was after the 3/18 patch. Instead it was Feb 11th. I have a few more of me doing 900+ damage with LRMs and winning. Roadbeer killed me in this one.

[El Bandito]

DarkDevilDancer, on 02 April 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

I got multikill games with my orion using LRM's before the patch at 120, going up to 175 was too much and the instant adoption of so many people shows how good they were.

That's just people trying out new changes. Most of them went back to PPCs and ACs by now, anyway.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 April 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

WintermuteOmega, on 02 April 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

But mechanically not much happened since then. LRMS got a tiny nerf, but nobody uses them anymore, because they were only so deadly because 4 or more Players were using them on each side. That changed.
But iwould favor a LOS-Rule forLRMS unles they use C3 Units.

LoS and Spotters were being used on TT before there WAS C³!

[DocBach]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

LoS and Spotters were being used on TT before there WAS C³!

Spotting was considered a complex action in which the turn the spotter was spotting they couldn't fire any weapons. Every individual LRM launcher on a 'Mech didn't share a single lock; It wasn't as simple as lock target and six 'Mechs could unleash 60 LRM's that all shared the same to-hit roll.

[Pygar]

Playing last night, I saw less missile boats due to the trial stalker being pulled...but still saw LRM boats doing the LRM thing just fine.

Ya gotta realize, if you are playing mostly PUGs, most PUGs do not hawk over patch notes to play the "Flavor of the Minute" meta... and there are even a lot of more serious players that don't pay that close of attention either.

[OznerpaG]

i was hardcore into LRMs a few weeks before the buff and still am now - LRMs provide a service that other weapons can't match, which is indirect suppression and assisting other friendly mechs when they engage the enemy when i'm in a remote location.

yes they are likely the least efficient weapon on the battlefield, but if i have a teammate in a 1v1 or outnumbered in a 2v1 i can assist him immediately by providing suppression and fire support for him and maybe turn that battle around into my teammate's favour.

in PUG contests where you have teammates spread around all over the map, a couple of smart LRM boats give your team a better chance to concentrate fire in different areas where it's needed most and increase your chance of winning a PUG match