450 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

I did start in MWO in fixed premade teams.... did change with the degeneration of complexity... actually MWO is a cheap (not to mention the 435$ i did pay allready) shooter.

A premade team isn't automatically a granted success - because even if you drop in premades - you still don't know if behind the next ridge is a execution squad of heavy mechs - when the other non premade team members don't tell you or scout - if your premade lance don't have scouts.

In short - if you did played the game once in a coordinated team - you already know everything that is necessary to be a enrichment for your team - even without voice com - dropping as solo player.


you know (the red arrows on the map is the enemy.... and a red arrow near a blue or green arrow means that there may a comrade in trouble....)
Or focus fire...simple walk next to another Mech of your speed - fire at the same targets he does.

Don't walk into other firing lines - as long as its not 100% necessary.... don't stop at bottlenecks (advance through them as fast as possible and open a firing line for the next to come)

And several other things you learn in premade lances.... I admit that some "pre configurated" messages would be helpfull either.

[Magna Canus]

wanderer, on 03 April 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

Teams laugh at people who have a fundamental disconnect on the subject. As long as there's one MM for both groups and solo players, the solo player is fodder. And at this point, I think at best PGI doesn't have the capacity to handle it,at worst they're enjoying watching the PUGs suffer.

I resent that statement. I have eaten 4-mans introducing themselves in chat as clan so-n-so with PUG companions. Even despite the lack of VoIP when running solo you still have an "instinctual combat mind" shared by others in your PUG team.

I work on both sides of the fence here, both solo and in a unit, so have no misconceptions. You have damned good PUG players and you have damned good 4-mans. You also have dregs on both sides. Just because some guys like being social and playing with friends does not make them elite PUG-stompers. Yes, there are people out there that exist that band together to do just that because they love their cruel fun, but those are of a very different generation and mindset than the people that love this IP. PUG-stompers come directly from the CoD/FPS ranks who really don't care what game they use to boost their ego's with. Have no misconceptions either that groups like this tend to sync-drop a dozen or more members at a time, each solo, and group those solo players in their TS when they end up in the same game.

Ever heard of the term "if you cant beat them join them"? Join a group and gain some first hand experience in the matter and then come back and relay your experiences. Make some friends to game with together and things become a lot more bearable.

[Latorque]

I brought about seven people into this game. They all left in the last two weeks; thanks to some grand old changes to indirect fire weapons, making them "viable" now. Since english is not my native tongue; i wasn't aware that viable has another connotation along the lines of "ridiculously overpowered". I'm just lurking the forums now; hoping to see some post regarding any semblance of balancing the flaming steel rain of death. Should that happen; maybe i can motivate one or two to return; but it's unlikely.

We were actually all eager for community warfare; but atm i couldn't care less about it; since warfare in general in MWO holds currently no fun at all.

Edited by Latorque, 03 April 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Disapirro, on 03 April 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Team comms in game and I will be happy. I do not have the time, outside of family and friends that do not happen to share this interest with me. I know the team experience is probably better in most ways, but it would be better for some, like myself, if there was an arena where teams did not have such an impact on the game.

Matches are a crapshoot of being on the pug exclusive side or the side with a group on comms, with the win being positively related to being on the side with the group and comms, no 5hit I know team op, yada yad. Still very frustrating to the pug player none the less.

Ultimately this game aspires to deliever a combat gaming experieince, and so team work and comms should have a appreciable impact on that vision. Good teamwork and Comms shoudl be a force multiplier.

The problem is they don't provide it, and have worked out that the majority of their players are not who they have aimed the game at. Rightly or wrongly they assumed most players were doign they same thing they were as developers, using third party systems to cover the gaps and enjoying the game they thought they had brought to life.

Heck I remember Paul justifying some MM results on the basis of one team had better comms so they clearly thought that it was important, and assumed it in place to justify some match outcomes .

Then they found out that the majoirty of players were not fitting the player demographic they had envisaged. And so they are making changes.

@Joseph, my group of friends use Skype, Vent and C3. Every time we want to play as a group we need to co ordinate who to get on what system ra ra ra. If I am playing with randoms, I don't worry about chat. Its just another system I have to run.

[Mycrus]

Premade.... been there done that... I'd rather pug why thank you.... at least it isn't a foregone conclusion that the drop will be a trolltastic seal clubbing experience...

[Magna Canus]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

If anyone is lucky enough to have a staple 5 friends + that are always on line and commed up ready to play when they are then they are very very lucky. Sadly for the majority of MW:O players thats not the case and for an infinite numbers of reasons, they solo drop.

Joining a group means both that you get to find at least 5 such friends when not more and you provide the others in that unit one more friend to drop with in their groups. The more people that join a group the more that group will be able to field at any given time of day. Most "mainstream" groups have over 100 active members and at least 1 I know of has 500.

As to finding a unit, there are tons of recruitment threads on the forums here. Reading through those posts are no more effort than participating in this one. Contacting those people is also not an effort greater than participating in this thread.

And Teamspeak is really not that hard to find, download, and install. You found MWO, downloaded, and installed and it worked just fine.

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

@Joseph, my group of friends use Skype, Vent and C3. Every time we want to play as a group we need to co ordinate who to get on what system ra ra ra. If I am playing with randoms, I don't worry about chat. Its just another system I have to run.

Ah. Why not some time in advance, make a choice on We will use... Skype to Comm on MW:O. Sorta like picking a frequency on a radio. That way there is no time wasted deciding on which comms to use. Its not rocket science and does not need to be a hassle. I had to load Skype so I could play Neverwinter with my daughter and her friends... Its really that easy.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 April 2014 - 04:41 AM.

[Disapirro]

Posts about joining a team and using third party comms are true, and very informative to the uninformed new player, but it still does not excuse not having comms in game. Comms make a drastic difference to be able to quickly coordinate. There really is no argument against that. This is the main imbalance issue in my mind.

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 April 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Ah. Why not some time in advance, make a choice on We will use... Skype to Comm on MW:O. Sorta like picking a frequency on a radio. That way there is no time wasted deciding on which comms to use. Its not rocket science and does not need to be a hassle. I had to load Skype so I could play Neverwinter with my daughter and her friends... Its really that easy.

Sure, ofc it can be done. And to be frank when I do play MW:O it is exactly that. We set aside a time and all log in progressivily and away we go.

But thats maybe once a fortnight?

The point is that it's an effort to organise. I have an option, not everyone else does.

They come home, the office has sucked, the SO has gone out and left dinner in the microwave. I want to log on and blow proverbial up. I don't want to spend 30 minutes setting up a game, seeing who is on and logging into different systems. Plug and Play me.

If its not ready to go when the microwave goes bing and the Scotch is splashing on the rocks, I got better things to do.

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 04:50 AM, said:

Sure, ofc it can be done. And to be frank when I do play MW:O it is exactly that. We set aside a time and all log in progressivily and away we go.

But thats maybe once a fortnight?

The point is that it's an effort to organise. I have an option, not everyone else does.

They come home, the office has sucked, the SO has gone out and left dinner in the microwave. I want to log on and blow proverbial up. I don't want to spend 30 minutes setting up a game, seeing who is on and logging into different systems. Plug and Play me.

If its not ready to go when the microwave goes bing and the Scotch is splashing on the rocks, I got better things to do.

Oddly, As a Lawman... That was all the time I needed to find a group, and hit launch... or decide to go PUG cause there was no openings in the dropships.

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 April 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Oddly, As a Lawman... That was all the time I needed to find a group, and hit launch... or decide to go PUG cause there was no openings in the dropships.

Maybe I make my drinks faster?

*looks at shaking hand*

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Maybe I make my drinks faster?

*looks at shaking hand*

3 Years as a bartender... and a love for Long Island Iced Tea... in fishbowls!

[Craig Steele]

Magnakanus, on 03 April 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Joining a group means both that you get to find at least 5 such friends when not more and you provide the others in that unit one more friend to drop with in their groups. The more people that join a group the more that group will be able to field at any given time of day. Most "mainstream" groups have over 100 active members and at least 1 I know of has 500.

As to finding a unit, there are tons of recruitment threads on the forums here. Reading through those posts are no more effort than participating in this one. Contacting those people is also not an effort greater than participating in this thread.

And Teamspeak is really not that hard to find, download, and install. You found MWO, downloaded, and installed and it worked just fine.

So if we assume MW:O has 1m players (at one stage they talked about 1.6m from memory) and that 70% are pure solo PUG's, your solution to those 700k people is "Make an effort guys"?

Have I read that right?

[wanderer]

Quote

some post regarding any semblance of balancing the flaming steel rain of death.

If you can't handle LRMs at low levels of play, you won't be able to handle actual play at any level beyond bottom-feeding.

No joke. That's what missiles do- simulate at a weaker level what gameplay is like later on, the difference being at higher levels of play, you will die faster when exposing yourself that broadly to fire and it'll come in AC/PPC concentrated flavor vs. the wash of missile fire.

If that's what it took to get you out of playing, you're better off doing it now before being exposed to the harsher realities later on when people actually play as a team with more efficient weapons than missiles...or you could actually get good. There's plenty of people who don't die in the rain. You could learn to play and join them, or keep feeling sad.

And to tie this in, solo players don't get the benefit of having multiple and oft-more-experienced minds applied to a problem on a regular basis. That leads to more cases of people like me not going "get good" when people look at molehills and think they're mountains, not seeing the actual meta-mountains in the distance. Premades and groups make it easier to get over those bumps to the real challenges and help add a sense of scale, more perspectives to get around obstacles to becoming a better player.

[Lukoi Banacek]

http://mwomercs.com/...49#entry3261849

Thoughts Dazur?

[Darian DelFord]

What I find absolutely hilarious is the resentment that PUG's still have against pre mades. We will drop, state premade and give basic instructions of what to do and not do to, like stay together do not wander off alone and stupidly easy stuff yet PUG's still do it get swarmed and die, and blame the pre mades. I can not tell you the amount of times I have dropped solo took command and started giving a strategy and was then basically told go F off your clueless only to have them die a fiery death all the while the rest of us are doing the right thing and winning.

Do I think team play should be forced, no. I drop solo when I do not have time to drop with my regiment. However the absolute resentment out there for anyone trying to help the team is rampant. its got to the point now I do not try. PUG's are PUG's and very few will change. If they do not want to listen to the voice(s) of experience then they will die. Just understand that this is a team game and if you go it alone, your experience and life will be cut short.

[Joseph Mallan]

wanderer, on 03 April 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

If you can't handle LRMs at low levels of play, you won't be able to handle actual play at any level beyond bottom-feeding.

No joke. That's what missiles do- simulate at a weaker level what gameplay is like later on, the difference being at higher levels of play, you will die faster when exposing yourself that broadly to fire and it'll come in AC/PPC concentrated flavor vs. the wash of missile fire.

If that's what it took to get you out of playing, you're better off doing it now before being exposed to the harsher realities later on when people actually play as a team with more efficient weapons than missiles...or you could actually get good. There's plenty of people who don't die in the rain. You could learn to play and join them, or keep feeling sad.

And to tie this in, solo players don't get the benefit of having multiple and oft-more-experienced minds applied to a problem on a regular basis. That leads to more cases of people like me not going "get good" when people look at molehills and think they're mountains, not seeing the actual meta-mountains in the distance. Premades and groups make it easier to get over those bumps to the real challenges and help add a sense of scale, more perspectives to get around obstacles to becoming a better player.

So long range fire support is for the Noobs... You've told it to a Marine and you were found wanting. I am good, But I know the need and use of Missiles in this Universe. If you can dismiss them offhand... THEY ARE NOT powerful enough. A good missile barrage should make you concerned. Sure you know how to avoid them I do to. But if you are this Cavalier about them they are not good enough yet.

Lukoi, on 03 April 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...49#entry3261849

Thoughts Dazur?

My vote is submitted.

[Capriel]

Hey guys. Lots of really good points in this thread. +1 to everyone.

Teamwork is fun.

Easy teamwork is fun for everyone.

I have a circle of close online friends with whom i have played many games - we all met in WoW but have stayed together through every MMO we've played since.

This is where i go offtopic a bit perhaps...

In all these games teamwork was easy because there were:

1. Clearly defined roles within the team
- tank/healer/ranged+melee dps
- arty/scout/med/heavy
- tackler/suppression/gank/repper
- etc

2. Well designed interface to interact with team mates
- health bar/status display (usually persistant)
- threat meters, possibly
- targettable allies
- quick-commands
- etc

Note that built-in VOIP is not necessary to be able to interact with team mates, and in fact the whole idea of having random strangers yabbering bollocks down the mic at me is repulsive.

Yes - my friends and i enjoying using skype/TS to have converstaions whilst we co-ordinate strategy in games. This is not generally necessary for teamwork (exception - wow raiding)

I highlighted quick-commands in my list there, as it is this single feature that allows me to play a game like World of Tanks as a solo pugger and still have co-ordination with my team for almost zero-effort and (usually) a active response from the team, eg below:

F1 "attack my target"
F2 "back to base"
F3 "help"
F4 "affirmative"
F5 "negative"

MWO would work as a pug-team game with 5 additional keybinds.

I do NOT want voip with strangers.

I want Easy Teamwork

I know this has been suggested elsewhere, so sorry for having an opinion.

When MWO was first discussed and i dropped money on a founders pack i thought "hey - World of Tanks with Mechs - Awesome!"

Some people think WoT is anathema, and that's fine, but there's plenty of things that work that would do well here. (I'm talking about pug-teamwork, not tiers, or peek-round-corners-3pv)

[Craig Steele]

Darian DelFord, on 03 April 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

What I find absolutely hilarious is the resentment that PUG's still have against pre mades. We will drop, state premade and give basic instructions of what to do and not do to, like stay together do not wander off alone and stupidly easy stuff yet PUG's still do it get swarmed and die, and blame the pre mades. I can not tell you the amount of times I have dropped solo took command and started giving a strategy and was then basically told go F off your clueless only to have them die a fiery death all the while the rest of us are doing the right thing and winning.

Do I think team play should be forced, no. I drop solo when I do not have time to drop with my regiment. However the absolute resentment out there for anyone trying to help the team is rampant. its got to the point now I do not try. PUG's are PUG's and very few will change. If they do not want to listen to the voice(s) of experience then they will die. Just understand that this is a team game and if you go it alone, your experience and life will be cut short.

The counter to this is I have had many many missions where someone gives an order that is either completely ridiculous or cannot be executed with my load out.

Notwithstanding your personal competence, issuing anything but the most basic of instructions is a matter of luck when the commander has no idea of the capabilities of the unit he is trying to instruct.

I've had guys tell me to defend the middle of the river in the open in my ML equipped Jenner.

I've been ordered to hold the flank with my lance when the entire company is clearly on scope coming towards us.

I've been told to fall back and defend our base in an Atlas 2 thirds of the way across the map to their objective.

Personally I never bad mouth when it goes wrong, but 'correct' and 'timely' instructions in MW:O is absolute luck in PUG play. It's certainly not the anyones 'fault'.

[DaZur]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

Until they build in game Comms and Social functions, it is far to time consuming to 'find' a team and co ordinate 'which' comms is agreeable to everyone on the team for the time I play.

But this is kind'a germaine to my point... It's carrot to the stick proposition.

PGI seems to be reading their game-play metrics in a extremely myopic fashion and, having limited resources, are willing to leverage MW:O development on the premise that this community is happy with shallow game-play and the assumption everyone is also happy playing solo. As such, why vet operational costs into developing core game function to support "teams" and depth of strategy when the metrics appear to show otherwise.

MW:O was conceptually envisioned to be team centric... For various reasons, to include their own shortsightedness and the fallout that resulted, this community swung from being strong advocates of teams to strong advocates of solo.

Solo must be supported for all reasons listed and 102 yet to be discussed... That said, I think it's highly assumptive on PGIs part to not appreciate the number of "solo" players they've included in their metrics that are truly "team" players that have lost their will and desire to "be" a team because PGI seems to now be leaning heavily in the direction of solo-drop game design and ignoring the more granular needs of the team players.

Edited by DaZur, 03 April 2014 - 05:30 AM.