39 replies to this topic

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

So i've been playing this evening and noticed that there seems to be a remarkable amount of Good shots around here...

What gives?

are people REALLY that good, or Is there an incredulous amount of people running mods n stuff?

Like really, i landed what I thought were good hits with my Large lasers and my gauss rifle and they do the same and I get torn apart... whereas they're just fine or mildly damaged...

I am trying to enjoy the game, but when it seems im dishing out little damage in the Atlas, and watching lesser mechs tear me apart (from a distance no less) then it's hard to enjoy anything.

What's up? old timers clue me in as to why I can't even land a kill and am MechFodder™ lol...

[Redshift2k5]

I've cleanly headshot a Jenner (with two consecutive shots! My mech wasn't equipped for one-hit headshots) at 5 hundred meters. I can shoot you with an AC2 at two kilometers, nd that's with only 3x zoom and not Advanced Zoom.

It really isn't that hard to make torso hits at upwards of several hundred meters. If you drive an Atlas, you're a BIG target and people know how to aim for a specific hitbox from a very long distance away.

You need teamwork and better use of cover; even an Atlas, if it gets caught by multiple mechs or caught in the open, is dead meat.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 03 April 2014 - 06:21 PM.

[Zerberus]

Well, first off, you are new as you say, and the game does have somewhat of a steep learning curve, if only because mistakes are punished more harshly. Ergo much of what you may lack will likely come with experience and learning how to avoid those mistakes or at least mitigate thir effects somewhat.

Therefore, just stick with it for a bit. Also, if you haven`t done so yet, consider logging on to one of the numerous community TS servers and just asking an existing group if they need a third or fourth man. Nothing helps improve gameplay like having more experienced players watch you and give you tips, or simply spectating them when you`re dead and asking a question or two.

That being said, you made 1 relatively common mistake: You chose the atlas to start out with.

Now, do not get me wrong, an atlas in the right hands is a devastating weapon, I absolutely love all 5 of mine.

But it has a major disadvantage: It "pulls aggro", lots of it. It actually does exactly what it was intended to do in lore in this game: be the biggest, baddest, and most imposing thing out there. And many still just freeze in terror when tehy come around a corner and have onb right in front of them.

Which is exactly why everybody shoots at one as soon as they see it, often disregarding whatever they were shooting at before.

The atlas is often called a "front line" mech, or a "tank", but the former is not entirely true and the latter does not apply because MWO has no healers. An atlas can take a lot of damage, yes, and it can dish out just as much. But, like every other mech, it will die in seconds if focused by numerous enemies.

Which is why an atlas ideally is NOT the first to the party, but rather lets the mediums and lights move in and follows behind the heavies... When everybody is already occupied with something, THAT is the time for the atlas to move in, cause a panic, and mop the floor.

And leaning when that is and how to get there in a timely fashion so as not to miss your window, whist remaing undetected if possible....yeah, it takes some time. But that is a very large part of what separates the good atlas pilots from the less capable ones.

Of course you CAN just come over the ridge with everyone else and just go full blown colonial firing lines.... but my experience seems to show that the most deadly atlas is the one that nobody expects or has time to deal with right now

Hope it helps, feel free to hit me up ingame or join up in TS on ComstarEU or NGNG if you like.

Edited by Zerberus, 03 April 2014 - 06:48 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

BaronBastardKiller, on 03 April 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

So i've been playing this evening and noticed that there seems to be a remarkable amount of Good shots around here...

What gives?

are people REALLY that good, or Is there an incredulous amount of people running mods n stuff?

Like really, i landed what I thought were good hits with my Large lasers and my gauss rifle and they do the same and I get torn apart... whereas they're just fine or mildly damaged...

I am trying to enjoy the game, but when it seems im dishing out little damage in the Atlas, and watching lesser mechs tear me apart (from a distance no less) then it's hard to enjoy anything.

What's up? old timers clue me in as to why I can't even land a kill and am MechFodder™ lol...

Honestly? Armor allocation.

Do you have max armor? How is it distributed? (No more than 15 in the rear, on anything but the biggest assaults) Front loaded armor helps. Also, are you torso twisting? Is your style of play harmed or improved by torso twisting? (Mechs with high fire rate weapons like the JM6 line don't need to torso twist, they stare their enemy down and keep on pumping lead into them until they drop, while bursty builds such as loads of (S)SRMs, and Lasers absolutely need to twist while on cooldown.

That's really it. Other than that, are you firing within optimal ranges? Are your shots focusing one section down or are they spread around? Focused fire means less time to kill an enemy, while spread around takes longer.

Ammo Explosions is another thing to look at.

[ShinVector]

BaronBastardKiller, on 03 April 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

So i've been playing this evening and noticed that there seems to be a remarkable amount of Good shots around here...

What gives?

are people REALLY that good, or Is there an incredulous amount of people running mods n stuff?

Like really, i landed what I thought were good hits with my Large lasers and my gauss rifle and they do the same and I get torn apart... whereas they're just fine or mildly damaged...

I am trying to enjoy the game, but when it seems im dishing out little damage in the Atlas, and watching lesser mechs tear me apart (from a distance no less) then it's hard to enjoy anything.

What's up? old timers clue me in as to why I can't even land a kill and am MechFodder™ lol...

Maybe you crossed into a higher ELO band. Congratz !

Edit: Stuff like this happens...
Lock ON.. Destroy !!


Regretted not being able to get a shot off on the 8th dude.

Edited by ShinVector, 03 April 2014 - 07:10 PM.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

thanks guys.

I agree picking the atlas was a mistake, but I didn't think this would be such a huge departure from the original mechwarrior series of games...

and i didnt remove any armor, from what I can see, apart from rear armor, I have max allocated everywhere.

and thanks Zerb!

[Mycrus]

1 point of armor in the rear and biggest std engine you can mount...

The Atlas should lead the charge and when properly supported it is a devastating platform. ..

Only noobs use atlai to snipe and lurm

[Modo44]

Less back armor, twisting to spread damage, lower mouse sensitivity for near-perfect aim, positioning to let the enemy shoot up some scenery. Each of those matters. Positioning and twisting has a special place in case of slow assaults. When you fire at one target while half the enemy team has free shots, nothing will save you. When your arms are healthy while your torso disappears, that means hundreds (!) of armor and structure points not used to soak up damage.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Mycrus, on 03 April 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

1 point of armor in the rear and biggest std engine you can mount...

The Atlas should lead the charge and when properly supported it is a devastating platform. ..

Only noobs use atlai to snipe and lurm

Pfff i see most "Elite" people sniping, I bet you do it a fair amount.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Ok seriously, something is up, i got hit from over 1500m perferly with a Lrg Laser when i was in a victor... no ones that good of a shot.

[Alaskan Nobody]

BaronBastardKiller, on 03 April 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

Ok seriously, something is up, i got hit from over 1500m perferly with a Lrg Laser when i was in a victor... no ones that good of a shot.

I'm not the best shot out there - but I can hit a Victor from that distance or rather make them think they were hit- esp with the ER Large Laser - though keeping the beam on them the entire time gets tricky....

Assaults are a rather big, slow target - even the fast ones.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 03 April 2014 - 10:05 PM.

[Takashi Uchida]

BaronBastardKiller, on 03 April 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

Ok seriously, something is up, i got hit from over 1500m perferly with a Lrg Laser when i was in a victor... no ones that good of a shot.

Those kinds of hits? Don't worry about it. An ERLL's optimum range is far below some range like that. If he's hitting you from like 1000+, it's probably not doing much damage to you anyway. Its max range is just under 1400 so if you're getting touched at well over 1000 m, it's not a big deal.

Of course, I love grazing people at absurd lengths, because if they die at some point in the match it's an assist for me. So it's an investment for later

Edited by Takashi Uchida, 03 April 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[Modo44]

You could not be hit with any laser at 1500m. The ERLL has a maximum range of 1350m. Aiming one -- if not 100% reliably on one location -- is quite possible, though.

By lower mouse sensitivity I mean really, really low -- all the way down. I am also assuming a good mouse with a reliable sensor. Add the Advanced Zoom module, and targets past 1km are easily traceable.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 03 April 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

You could not be hit with any laser at 1500m. The ERLL has a maximum range of 1350m.

It sometimes registers as being hit for the other guy - which causes them to sometimes react as if they were hit - forgot the actual range though (I tend more toward Pulse) >.<

[Amsro]

Takashi Uchida, on 03 April 2014 - 09:59 PM, said:

Those kinds of hits? Don't worry about it. An ERLL's optimum range is far below some range like that. If he's hitting you from like 1000+, it's probably not doing much damage to you anyway. Its max range is just under 1400 so if you're getting touched at well over 1000 m, it's not a big deal.

Of course, I love grazing people at absurd lengths, because if they die at some point in the match it's an assist for me. So it's an investment for later

I've taken PPC shots from obscene distances while peeking over a hill top and do NOT move while no damage happens (out of range). After a handfull of shots the mech powers down. Then I wonder what MatchMaker is up to.

[ThatBum42]

Amsro, on 03 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

I've taken PPC shots from obscene distances while peeking over a hill top and do NOT move while no damage happens (out of range). After a handfull of shots the mech powers down. Then I wonder what MatchMaker is up to.

Probably people coming from Medal of Battlefield 37: Black Ops 2 or whatever, showing off their xX360NoScopeYOLOSwagXx skills.

[luxebo]

I once saw a 6 PPC Stalker fire from a mountain alphaing every shot from a mountain at guys over 3000m+ range. It was hilarious, but sad.

[Void Angel]

BaronBastardKiller, on 03 April 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

Like really, i landed what I thought were good hits with my Large lasers and my gauss rifle and they do the same and I get torn apart... whereas they're just fine or mildly damaged...

Large Lasers and a Gauss Rifle? You have a really big profile with an Atlas, and really low hardpoints for most of your hardpoints. You also don't have very good hardpoints for LRMs because of the number of missile tubes (the number in parenthesis after the number of hardpoints.) So my own preference for Atlas builds is...

It's dangerous to snipe with low-mounted weapons! Here, take this!

You have to pay attention to maneuvering with any Atlas, and remember the Maxim of Irrevocability: Once an Atlas commits, he's usually too slow to change his mind. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 03 April 2014 - 11:27 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

luxebo, on 03 April 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

I once saw a 6 PPC Stalker fire from a mountain alphaing every shot from a mountain at guys over 3000m+ range. It was hilarious, but sad.

Almost as sad as a HBK-4p with 9 medium lasers firing at over 1K and then complaining about the game being trash because he should have ended the match with more than 50 damage.

[The Basilisk]

@PO: I feel you pain man.
Driving assaults for the first time, especially when having not even completed the basic skills can be a very very depressing thing.
So some hints that helped me a lot:

-- Never act in a rush or get pressed by some twitchy light or med pilots to run in front acting as *frontline* or as *tank*. Thats absolute bull. You are the slowest thing on the field. If you walk in front of your line your buddys will scurry around and hide as soon as they get hit by fire. Now you are standing alone against the enemy left to die by all the valorous tough little useless jenny and raven pilots polishing their K/D on your costs.

-- Your biggest problem on an assault isn't tonnage but space. Studdy the reaktor classes and find a balance between engine wight and place your engine will consume together with your heat dissipation system. Endo steel will be mostly a waste of space. If you equip an XL engine make sure your engine is large enough to compensate for the extra space used. The first engine beeing large enough is the 300XL.
The formula is: Engine rating / 25 = Number of engine internal Heatsinks
So you want to make a realy slow Fatlas with an 200 rated engine
200/25 = 8 --> your engine will carry 8 heatsinks and you mech will require at least 10. That means you will have to equip at least 2 additional heatsinks somewhere in you mech. --> you lost 6 criticals if you are using doubble heat sinks.
On the other hand you want to make the fastest possible Atlas with an 400 rated engine.
400 / 25 = 16 --> your engine will bring 10 heatsinks with it and will take up an other 6 --> you saved 24 critt slots and you are now able to slot larger more heat producing weapons.
Got the idea ?

-- While it is a difficult thing to master don't fear mixing weapon types/ weapons of different sizes. Mixing and AC2 and an AC5 Ultra ? Yes please. Fired together they will create a constant rattling stream of bullets. Hold your bulletstream while you fire 1 or two large laser for additional havoc. 2 PPC and 2 large lasers ? Why not.
Just be mindfull to stand near cover and think of the firering sequence.
You need time to hold the lasers on target for making them effective and you will need to lead with the ppcs.

-- Partial cover. Your Atlas is pretty twosided. But your biggest gun is most likely the balistic one in your right torso. So nobody said you allways have to use all your weapons. Sometimes its best to use just some. BTW this can be the reason why some enemys seem to hit you while you dont. They are standing half mech behind a wall only using their free side weapons.
Imagine my Banshee 3E hidden half side behind a building rattling your atlas with 2 Ultra and two AC2 while you are standing in front of the skyline....with the impact shake you wont be able to hit me pinpoint.
Use your missle or ballistic slots this way.

-- Hillcover. DONT YOU EVER TRY TO USE HILLCOVER IN AN ASSAULT IF YOU ARE NOT A STALKER.
Your assault has the slowest climb rate of all mechs, the lowest arms and the largest profile dont try to snipe or stand on hills.
If you have to be on a hill try to wait for the enemy to close up or search a rockneedle or a wall to get cover.


Thats are the points that helped me the most in learning to master assault mechs.
Hope it helps you as well.

EDIT: Since MWO is mostly server autorative, especially hit detection, there are most likely no mods or realy usefull aiming helpers or aimbots out there.
There are some problems with hitboxes and hit detection around though.
Some mechs seem to have invulnerable spots or warped hitboxes.
PGI claimed to have fixed the spiders hitboxes but a shut down, standing Spider should go down when hit by 3 alphas of 2 large laser, 2 PPC and 1 AC10 from around 120 meters. Hitboxes bliking no dmg counted. There are other cases where i saw such things happen. Mostly with light mechs even when they dont move and the shooting mech isn't moving as well.
Other problems are slopy programmed LODs AKA invisible edges. On some distances terrain collision boarders are not what you see. The Level Of Detail reduction (LOD) that reduces polygon use at increasing ranges fools you sometimes by simply taking collision relevant details away from your sight.
( river city lower building parts you may see the leggs of a mech but cant hit him, tumaline some of the crystaline needles just vanish in the distance so you can see an enemy but cant hit him )

Edited by The Basilisk, 04 April 2014 - 12:44 AM.