80 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

Buckminster, on 05 April 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

but really you want analog controls, like a joystick.

This.
Or better yet, Stick + Throttle, or Twin Sticks.

Twin Sticks has been fantastic to use.

[Denolven]

Oh man, twin sticks is awesome I agree - did that back in the Star Wars Pod Racer days. It really works. But aiming with a stick? Probably not going to help my already bad aiming

The thing is in this game you hamper yourself with the way "analog" movement is done by the throttle marker. At least that's how I feel, because I pilot mostly light and medium mechs. The throttle marker moves slower than the mech can accelerate. Going from full speed to negative full speed would take like 5 seconds, where digital input uses the mechs maximum capability and does it in 2. I can't tell you how often I was unable to retreat into cover in time until I used throttle decay.

Edited by Denolven, 05 April 2014 - 07:49 AM.

[RamsoPanzer]

Throttle decay is a must for me. Using more than 2 keys (move-stop) for controlling the speed of your mech is a waste of fingers and precious seconds. When you need to respond in the battlefield with a fast movement you cant be messing around with more than 2 keys to set your speed.

I know some guys that dont use throttle decay and their lower train control is really bad in some situations.

Edited by RamsoPanzer, 05 April 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[Modo44]

Denolven, on 05 April 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

mouse, mouse, mouse, not done during a fight, A/D, space

Some basic logic: You used a generalization, which is invalidated by any counterexample. The fact that you do not need that many keys does not change the fact that others do. MWO's control scheme is very extensive, and most mice do not have enough buttons for everything. Any reduction in required keys is welcome, and disabling throttle decay provides exactly that. Anyway, have a nice life.

Edited by Modo44, 05 April 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Motroid]

Throttle decay is meant to give you a soft start-up in the game. Same with arm-lock.
The more experienced you will get the more likley it will be for you to deactivate it. Same with arm-lock.
Both hamper the pilots possibilities. After all (even the dumbing-down) it is still a vehicle combat sim.
Adjusting speed on the way is important for many things. Sharp turns, heatmanagment via engine (reactors produce heat as well or better they use up more HS when in full throttle etc.), ambush maneuvers and adjusting speed to other mechs for well timed wolfpack and providing ECM. This is all better to be adjustable on the fly rather then the numpad. To improve your piloting skills you will (re)deactivate it one day. To improve your mech-shooting skills arm-lock is just as bad. Altough there might be exceptions to the arm-lock thing.
When deactivating throttle decay you will still need 100% throttle and full stop on two separate lefthand keys. (R & F for me; target is E and battlefield overlay Q)
Just my two c-bills

[ShinVector]

Throttle decay is good for nimble mechs.

[DEMAX51]

Light 'Mechs benefit greatly from Throttle Decay, as it allows those 'Mechs to accelerate at their full potential. I've been playing the game since closed beta, and started using Throttle Decay a few months after it was introduced. It took a bit of getting used to, but I find it to offer significantly greater control over my 'Mech than the standard "set-it-and-forget-it" throttle.

I've got the key just above my W key (it would be 2 or 3 on a regular Keyboard, but I use a Razer OrbWeaver) to set throttle to 100% when I know I'm going to be moving for a while,and that way I don't have to keep the key depressed the whole time. It also allows you to continue moving if you open the map or the scoreboard.

Edited by DEMAX51, 05 April 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Fighter Jet mechs like the Locust really do well with throttle decay. You literally stop and turn on a dime, and often need to do so, because a few meters forward and you're out of cover and then you're dead. Short quick speed bursts and quick stops and turns and more bursts and you break someone's tracking line of fire. Bigger mechs don't get as much out of it, but the Locust, of which I have 3 mastered (and sold), really rely on it to shine.

[Denolven]

Modo44, on 05 April 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Denolven, on 05 April 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

mouse, mouse, mouse, not done during a fight, A/D, space

Some basic logic: You used a generalization, which is invalidated by any counterexample.

I don't get it. What has the quoted part to do with generalization? Please send me a PM if you care to resolve my confusion.

Quote

Any reduction in required keys is welcome, and disabling throttle decay provides exactly that.

You probably mean enabling throttle decay. Or maybe you don't? I'm still confused.

To be more precise, I use throttle decay for two reasons:

• it allows quick mechs to use their full potential (acceleration/deceleration; I mostly play mechs with 50 or less tons)
  
• it uses less buttons in almost all the situations I find myself in

I understand that heavy/assault mechs might want the more detailed handling for sharper turning or heat details. However, the other cases that were mentioned here are all out of critical combat, so it doesn't really matter whether you do it with W/S or with the numpad keys.
I also understand that people who use the keyboard for shooting may want throttle decay off for several reasons.

[Amsro]

I use throttle decay or that is to say I use a joystick to move the legs of my mech. This is the easiest way to balance movement on both axis. As well all your secondary items are a thumb press away. (Zoom/NV/HV/Arty/Map/PowerSwitch/ShutdownBypass/MechInfo)

I like to have full control over my mech.

Using a mouse to aim brings the best of both worlds into one nice package.

Only time that this setup is an issue is when you want to chat or check the map. I avoid this by hitting Zero on the numpad (full throttle) to keep the mech trucking forward.

Motroid, on 05 April 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Throttle decay is meant to give you a soft start-up in the game. Same with arm-lock.
The more experienced you will get the more likley it will be for you to deactivate it. Same with arm-lock.
Both hamper the pilots possibilities.

This is false, while arm lock does gimp you, throttle decay is simply a preference. Using a joystick is similar to having throttle decay on. I prefer this setup.

Edited by Amsro, 05 April 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[Selene Lunaris]

My $0.02 on the matter is that it's up to personal preference. Having played the old MW games after playing MWO, I can see why a lot of people like driving their mechs without throttle decay. I come from the land of WoT, so I'm used to having to keep W pressed - it's almost instict for me now, and I'm pretty good at manipulating the speed of my mech with throttle decay. In MW4, I couldn't keep track of the battle happening around me while fumbling with my speed setting and whatnot.

As for the arm lock discussion above me - I don't think having arm lock on by default would gimp a player. I have shift bound for disengaging arm lock whenever needed, and I prefer that. It's just far easier to keep track of my weaponry when it's all pointing in the same direction, and I have enough control of my left hand to make pressing shift when it's needed a breeze (I'm a righthanded guitarist, being able to properly control all of my fingers on my fretting hand is a must). Just my $0.02 on the matter.

Edited by Chrona, 05 April 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[ShinVector]

Amsro, on 05 April 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

This is false, while arm lock does gimp you, throttle decay is simply a preference. Using a joystick is similar to having throttle decay on. I prefer this setup.

Throttle decay... Is eventually superior to standard movement.
Unless you have no concern about having faster response time moving forward and backwards, which basically means better agility.

But But.. Don't want to press W all the time ? That why I have '4' set to 100% throttle when I want cruise control... Nothing lost over standard movement.

Edited by ShinVector, 05 April 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[Motroid]

So how do you adjust speed when moving inside an ECM-bubble of a slower AS7? Stop and go or just by being sensitive with the joystick? Is that even possible with the current implementation of "throttle decay"? I really dunno. Or engaging at exact 33% of reactorcapacity for heatmanagment reasons? Doesn't work with throttle decay. It's for mass appeal.

[Amsro]

Motroid, on 05 April 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

So how do you adjust speed when moving inside an ECM-bubble of a slower AS7? Stop and go or just by being sensitive with the joystick? Is that even possible with the current implementation of "throttle decay"? I really dunno. Or engaging at exact 33% of reactorcapacity for heatmanagment reasons? Doesn't work with throttle decay. It's for mass appeal.

Yes that simple, I just release the joystick a bit and throttle normalizes at what I hold it at. Edit; I'm not using throttle decay with the joystick.

ShinVector, on 05 April 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Throttle decay... Is eventually superior to standard movement.
Unless you have no concern about having faster response time moving forward and backwards, which basically means better agility.

But But.. Don't want to press W all the time ? That why I have '4' set to 100% throttle when I want cruise control... Nothing lost over standard movement.

I think you misunderstand me a bit, I don't use throttle decay because using a joystick to control the X and Y gives you FULL dynamic control over the legs of the mech. In other words I have full agility and the ability to manipulate 2 axis at one time.

When I'm not using the joystick to move (due to chat or map or long walk) I just press numpad Zero and chill.

Essentially if you use a joystick, throttle decay is moot or redundant.

Edit2; when I release the joystick it drops zero movement. Direct input is ideal.

Edited by Amsro, 05 April 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[Amsro]

Chrona, on 05 April 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

My $0.02 on the matter is that it's up to personal preference. Having played the old MW games after playing MWO, I can see why a lot of people like driving their mechs without throttle decay. I come from the land of WoT, so I'm used to having to keep W pressed - it's almost instict for me now, and I'm pretty good at manipulating the speed of my mech with throttle decay. In MW4, I couldn't keep track of the battle happening around me while fumbling with my speed setting and whatnot.

As for the arm lock discussion above me - I don't think having arm lock on by default would gimp a player. I have shift bound for disengaging arm lock whenever needed, and I prefer that. It's just far easier to keep track of my weaponry when it's all pointing in the same direction, and I have enough control of my left hand to make pressing shift when it's needed a breeze (I'm a righthanded guitarist, being able to properly control all of my fingers on my fretting hand is a must). Just my $0.02 on the matter.

But that requires a skillset to unlock your arms with the shift button. Most new players have no idea this is even possible. Typically players use the feature the opposite way as you. But whatever works is groovy.

I don't find arm lock to be useful in any capacity, just another hurdle to remember in battle. IMO.

[ShinVector]

Amsro, on 05 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Yes that simple, I just release the joystick a bit and throttle normalizes at what I hold it at. Edit; I'm not using throttle decay with the joystick.
............

I wasn't even quoting you..
Just giving a general statement that Throttle Decay gives certain advantages actually IS more advantageous over standard movement.

[Leartes]

I have played a bit without throttle decay now and I think I'll go back to using it. For me it is much harder to peak around a corner with one arm, fire and go back without throttle decay. Also quick turns in a brawl come more naturally with switching from w to s as soon as you want a sharp turn, then go back to w.

For moving with heavier mechs at the start of the round I use the num pad.

Keys are no big issues for me as I have two thumb keys on my mouse for weapongroup 3 and 4.

[Burke IV]

So if i press ths forward button am i losing acceleration due to throttle decay? same question for reverse? I play with decay on but if i want to slow down i just press reverse. I cant say i noticed any penalty. I like decay on. Ill share my control set up for approval.

I have weapon groups on Q, W and E. A for jj S forward X backward, strafe keys are left CTRL and left ALT (thats thumb and little finger) , weapon groups on D and F, target on both R and T (it gets frantic) and flush is safely out of the way on the funny key to the left of 1. I have up to 4 weapon groups and zoom controls on my mouse. I got leg to torso center on the space bar, near my thumb.

Sounds weird right? i have been using this key set sinse the days of elite If i wanted to spend money to gain an advantage, the first thing i would add is a set of foot peddles, lol but i seen the price of a decent set. A 3 button mouse like they used to have way back woudl be a big help aswell.

Edit: i levered my tab key and left windows key out.

Edited by Burke IV, 06 April 2014 - 03:09 AM.

[ThatBum42]

Burke, what they're saying is that some mechs have the ability to accelerate faster than the persistent throttle mode allows.

Also that control scheme sounds insane. I'm pretty sure my hands would become lumps of cramp if I tried to play like that for a single match. Maybe you should invest in one of those fancy MMO mice, or a control pad.

I think throttle control off would benefit people with actual hardware throttle controllers, or people who played so much oldschool MW games that the throttle not staying where you left it would throw off their playstyle.

[ShinVector]

ThatBum42, on 06 April 2014 - 03:12 AM, said:

Burke, what they're saying is that some mechs have the ability to accelerate faster than the persistent throttle mode allows.

Also that control scheme sounds insane. I'm pretty sure my hands would become lumps of cramp if I tried to play like that for a single match. Maybe you should invest in one of those fancy MMO mice, or a control pad.

I think throttle control off would benefit people with actual hardware throttle controllers, or people who played so much oldschool MW games that the throttle not staying where you left it would throw off their playstyle.

More importantly.. It gives pilots the ability to move forward and reverse faster than the standard throttle a allows.
This is probably true for all mechs.