795 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

Trauglodyte, on 07 April 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

You did fix that Roady but you know, as well as the rest of us, that the douche bag legions that want nothing more than the ego pumping in game accolades of stomping PUGs will push this to no end.

Yeah, D-bags everywhere, especially those telling me that I'm having fun wrong. PGI/ Premade haters, I'm looking at you.

Trauglodyte, on 07 April 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

While you're not on my friends list (why not???), if you were and we wanted to play together as a group but couldn't, I'd hop in TS/Vent/Mumble and attempt to sync drop just like I do now with my CI clan mates. That is us trying to play together as friends cause the point is companionship and fun. But, there are too many folks out there that are gonna screw this up for everyone.

Problem is, you can't build a game around what .5% might do. Then you're not making anyone happy. Least of all those likely to spend money on the game. That is, unless you're the kind of person who buys comet insurance.

Trauglodyte, on 07 April 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Also, the down side to this system is that it is going to strain the match finding time. If we don't get some sort of multi-mech queueing option, we're going to all end up like the top ELO teams montsh ago (ie, they try and fail to find matches due to time outs).

Which, when you try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, you end up with the least optimal results.

[Amsro]

Seriously grouping up with your friends shouldn't be this hard.

Wake up people, stop asking for more restrictions and rules, we already have Ghost Heat, Ghost Terrain and Ghost HitDetection do we really need Ghost Grouping?

[PapaBear14]

Ok i followed you guys to this thread as well. It is not quite as heated but still good conversation here. As to the original post i dont know if this is going to be as big of a problem as you may think. Other than when you have 5 maybe 6 friends on at one time will you try to sync drop like this. Once your group reaches 7 you are going to ask people to go from having a 100% chance of grouping with 3 friends to a low percent chance of syncing with even one person let alone the chance of all 3 solos making into your group. Who gets to be in the group that always plays together and who gets to drop solo and hope. I am not saying that you shouldn't be able to make groups more than 4 i am just saying i think most people will take the 100% then leaving their gaming fun to the chance of it working. Just my two cents.

[Trauglodyte]

It isn't about not wanting people to group with their friends. The issue, in my mind, is providing the option for you to group with your friends without it impacting the overall fun of those that aren't grouping. That is the big obstacle. During beta, the power players (and wannabes) all complained that there wasn't a stage for them to flex their respective competitive muscle so PGI added in 8v8 only queue. After a couple of weeks, people realized that there were two groups: the actual hard cores that played because it was an E-sport to them and those that thought it sounded cool/couldn't hack it. So, the later group went back to sync dropping so that they could lolz roll pugs.

The community is too small to have solo, 4 man, and 2-12 man queues along with 12v12s. There needs to be an ability to play with friends without it being stupid but I can't think of a means of doing so. THe lobby system isn't going to do it because then you're just going up against the same people all of the time and you end up back where we are currently with 12v12s. Can you think up a better means?

[Mystere]

Trauglodyte, on 07 April 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

You did fix that Roady but you know, as well as the rest of us, that the douche bag legions that want nothing more than the ego pumping in game accolades of stomping PUGs will push this to no end ...

A possible solution is scrap all of the eSport-leaning aspects of MWO and just concentrate on Community Warfare.

If the so-called "douche bag legions" want to "compete", then they're going to have to face Faction Units and Mercenary Corps to stroke their egos.

Alternatively, create a 24(+)-player last-man-standing no-holds-barred winner-takes-all Solaris VII style game mode, and simply because:




That should satisfy their egos ... unless of course they were raised in a "Everyone is a winner!" environment.

Edited by Mystere, 07 April 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[no one]

Koniving, on 07 April 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

stuff.

Hm, for planetary defense or attack I'd think about removing the time limit for battles. Have that 'reinforce' option be something a side can do to an active game every 15 minutes. That way if you could choose to reinforce an existing game, or attack on another front if there's enough defenders open. If you have say, five simultaneous 'control points' or battle maps per planet, then limit reinforcements to using the surviving/damaged 'Mechs from previous fights. Then you can't have more battles going on for a planet than you have battlegrounds. Frag, this will need some thought and I'm just not up to it today.

Shields are pretty interesting. I could see people using them as anti-artillery equipment if nothing else.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Large_Shield

By the way Kon, do you ever read the feature suggestions forum? I have a hard time getting informed feedback on my ghost heat replacement system. A lot of people seem to just stop reading at "Remove ghost heat and. . ." .

[o0Marduk0o]

Kaldor, on 07 April 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

I do not blame the "premade" that was on the other team. After all 84% of all players are solo based on PGI's bulletproof data!

The data is correct but you read wrong. It says 84% of DROPS are solo drops, not 84% of player base drop solo. This is a huge difference. Actually 2/3 of player base drop solo not factoring in 12-man drops.
But one can say that the amount of premade players would rise if bigger groups than 4 were allowed.

Not sure whether we need 12-man random queues with private matches being added.
What we certainly need are...
1) pure-solo queues and...
2) 2-11(12)-man queues with one premade per side and if possible same number of premade players on both sides.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 07 April 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Hey, not entirely related to the conversation.

When did the population counter go away. Was it before or after the group restrictions? Both were around the launch of OB.

o0Marduk0o, on 07 April 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

The data is correct but you read wrong. It says 84% of DROPS are solo drops, not 84% of player base drop solo. This is a huge difference. Actually 2/3 of player base drop solo not factoring in 12-man drops.

I would suspect that number would be higher if there wasn't the group caps.

[Corwin Maxwell]

Roadbeer its been gone along time now..it was taken down way back when the first shit storm of pgi's lies came about.

[Mystere]

Amsro, on 07 April 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Wake up people, stop asking for more restrictions and rules, we already have Ghost Heat, Ghost Terrain and Ghost HitDetection do we really need Ghost Grouping?

Which begs the question: In the dystopian universe in which Battletech was set in, what restrictions and rules did the "Great Houses" follow while waging brutal warfare that killed billions?

The answer is: None!




Oh, wait! There is one rule they did follow: Don't target jumpships!

Dang it! I thought I was on to something.

Edited by Mystere, 07 April 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Roadbeer, on 07 April 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

I would suspect that number would be higher if there wasn't the group caps.

See one line below of your quoted passage.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 07 April 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Roadbeer]

o0Marduk0o, on 07 April 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

See one line below of your quoted passage.

Damn ninja editors

[WarHippy]

Roadbeer, on 07 April 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Hey, not entirely related to the conversation.

When did the population counter go away. Was it before or after the group restrictions? Both were around the launch of OB.


I would suspect that number would be higher if there wasn't the group caps.

It was right after the first major forum meltdown where people were using it to show that a lot of people were leaving (I don't remember what it was). The devs reasoning was that it was important customer info that they couldn't let get into the hands of the competition or some such nonsense.

[Roadbeer]

WarHippy, on 07 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

It was right after the first major forum meltdown where people were using it to show that a lot of people were leaving (I don't remember what it was). The devs reasoning was that it was important customer info that they couldn't let get into the hands of the competition or some such nonsense.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I know that the removal of groups was kind of a big deal, I just don't remember if the meltdown was going to OB, Consumables, impending changes to groups or something else.

So many threadnaughts and so little learned.

[Koniving]

no one, on 07 April 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Shields are pretty interesting. I could see people using them as anti-artillery equipment if nothing else.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Large_Shield

By the way Kon, do you ever read the feature suggestions forum? I have a hard time getting informed feedback on my ghost heat replacement system. A lot of people seem to just stop reading at "Remove ghost heat and. . ." .

On the planetary I imagined that reinforcements had to be to the fight soon as the player who owns the reinforcement mech dies; though the choice of when to actually approach the battle is entirely up to the player (example said player[s] could hold back the entire match to keep their mechs fresh or commit immediately to reduce the enemy force faster). The reasoning for this is that if the players could choose to delay in dropping they might delay until the entire team is dead and then make everyone wait to be a summer's eve. Or if they wait too long, the other party could be where they would 'spawn' and they would be screwed. Spawning immediately gives them time to move, position, etc. before they officially "arrive."

I see you found the same shield thing. Given other hand-held attachments and the like, I went looking for something and that is what I found.

I don't read feature suggestions often because every time I open my mouth there it backfires.
Remember Gauss Rifle charge up?
I said give PPCs a charge up.
Bam, 4 weeks later, Gauss Rifles get a charge up instead.

But I'll tell you right now. I've talked several times with someone in development. While I did get some ideas across and had many shot down, here's the only on the record statement I can give you:
"Ghost heat is here to stay. Period."
It may be tweaked, modified, made unique to situations, or broadened. It will never be removed from MWO.

Now, I discovered a new group has picked up MW:LL. I'm working on a way to find out how I might get ahold of an independent build to apply, test, and demonstrate my ideas in. When I finish college, I'll apply to PGI and it's my hope that if and when the (a) new non-F2P Mechwarrior game begins development that I'll be there. Though I'll tell you the truth, I sure as heck hope that PGI isn't behind a new mechwarrior game.

[WarHippy]

Roadbeer, on 07 April 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Yeah, that's what I mean. I know that the removal of groups was kind of a big deal, I just don't remember if the meltdown was going to OB, Consumables, impending changes to groups or something else.

So many threadnaughts and so little learned.

Yeah, I really can't remember there were so many back to back events that the removal of the counter just faded into the background as part of the scenery.

[Stunner]

The op is assuming that the match maker will put the two groups together. They have already said that only one 4 player group will be on each side. The other team will have to be a 3 person group or less. Also it's possible for the 4 man to get a "no match found" if they are in a decent bracket and trying to take assualts and no one in their bracket is queing assaults. I plan on staying in smaller mechs to get into matches quicker than those that insist on dropping in assaults.

[EXO-Scorpion]

Just saying that this Summer after the Clan mechs are put in and this "CW" gets put in... we all are going to be immensely disappointed, then 95% of the players will move onto a different game and NOT look back on MWO.

PGI trys to release new mechs, paints, cockpit items...but shit dont matter. PGI goes out of business.


I just have a Vibe PGI is going to disappoint all of us true mechwarrior fans with "CW" and whatnot.

[Koniving]

Mystere, on 07 April 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Oh, wait! There is one rule they did follow: Don't target jumpships!

Dang it! I thought I was on to something.

Nope, not even there.

2:18. Planetary defense laser cannons fire upon dropships.
Dropship Blackhammer is destroyed. One of the mech pods break up on entry, destroyed before reaching the planet.

Edit: Specifically as described in the briefing: Dropships Blackhammer and Eclipse are bringing 6 mech pods each containing a single lance (4 mechs).
So for this one campaign they are sending out a total of 12 mech pods, each pod containing 4 mechs.
48 mechs to take over the planet, complete with supply and refit vehicles and support.

Then again, technically the enemy there is a Clan Smoke Jaguar force. So maybe.
So there's this for Inner Sphere related dropship 'targeting'. The mercs are evidently afraid of Kurita destroying their dropship. Dropship weapons get disabled. The dropship commander panics, abandoning troops.

Edited by Koniving, 07 April 2014 - 02:25 PM.

[Mystere]

Koniving, on 07 April 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Closed beta had some really wild fights. Sometimes 12 lights versus lots of heavies and assaults. Mediums versus a lot more.
There was one fight where it was 2 heavies, 4 mediums, and 1 light (we had a disconnect) against 2 Atlases (the other 6 players on their side disconnected).
Guess how it ended?

....the two Atlases won. The closest any of us got was 300 meters. The light mech died instantly after giving us a location. The heavies were headshotted. The mediums were legged. (It was in the days where the fastest medium was maybe 69 kph. If it says anything the Atlases barely went 30). The only one who got close was me and another Centurion.

The two of us were in a premade and working together. We twisted our torso 50 degrees right, and hooked our right arms (the cannons) underneath the shield. We had LRMs firing as we charged at 50 something kph. Our AC/5 and AC/2 (depending on which of us) firing as we rushed. Enemy LRMs showering us. My arm comes off from the second wave of 40 LRMs from the one Atlas. AC/20 rips my leg off. I center my torso and continue firing adding my own lasers to the mix now that we're in range. Enemy lasers to my mohawk (counted as head back then). AC/20 to my head. I'm dead. My team mate dies seconds later, the exact same process used against him.

The two of them covered each other, too, when one shut down the other would fire. The fact that it was frozen city helped them a lot, considering we all had standard heatsinks.

Add to this that back then with no HSR, it was easy to use various tricks like turtlebacking (very high rear armor. Fire, turn around, let them shoot your back and turn to fire, repeat.), shield arming, and swatting bullets. These Atlases excelled at it. When the K2 Bang Cat (twin AC/20s) would fire, Atlas's arms jerked to one side and soaked up the rounds.

The skill involved in the old days is amazing compared to what we have now. Then again every single round you never knew what you were up against. It could be 8 heavies. It could be 8 lights. It could be some ungodly mix. And back then a light (Raven 4X) could drop kick and knock over an Atlas. Of course running over unsteady ground could cause a light to trip.

I miss those days. I miss not knowing. I miss the communication and strategy involved in every match. Everyone talked because they had to. Target, D3. Atlas B9!

But of it all, you know what I really miss? The good sportsmanship. It's a landslide victory, 7 players wiped out. One guy left. He comes out to the front of one of the enemies and "I surrender." Shuts down. "I accept. Good game." They take the base.

Of course taking bases actually earned more money than killing everyone anyway. So back then you had to defend your own base. If they took it while everyone was alive, that was the real payout.

I think it'd be worth that payout again now, considering all the stuff you have to go through to take one now in assault.

....Ah, but that's a lot of rambling. Thank you btw.