795 replies to this topic

[Daekar]

That's all very nice, we are glad you can kick back and relax, and are even encouraging to pugs. That's all lovely. It sounds like your Marik unit is a very positive place that can help people enjoy the game more.




Still doesn't make sync dropping any less selfish or less cheating.

[Roadbeer]

Daekar, on 12 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Still doesn't make sync dropping any less selfish or less cheating.

Well, since large group support was removed due to selfishness on the part of the PUGS...

Still waiting for you to show us where it says that sync dropping is cheating?

That is, unless you're one of those who views anything over a 2 button mouse as cheating as well, then there is no talking to you.

Edited by Roadbeer, 12 April 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[Daekar]

Roadbeer, on 12 April 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Well, since large group support was removed due to selfishness on the part of the PUGS...

Still waiting for you to show us where it says that sync dropping is cheating?

That is, unless you're one of those who views anything over a 2 button mouse as cheating as well, then there is no talking to you.

If the pugs were being selfish for not wanting to play a game where they were forced into situations where they were at a steep disadvantage, then every sports team that ever played was selfish. Make no mistake, you are not a victim of anything except business realities, and you can't blame the pugs for that.

And I did, twice. Nobody acknowledged it because there's no refuting it - the fact that they intentionally decreased the sizes of groups in the pug queue to improve the pug experience is a direct condemnation of groups larger than the size they set, and the game mechanics are set up to enforce that as best they can. Just because you can get around it doesn't mean it's not a rule.

And no, I have a Razer Naga I bought before SWTOR came out, and I love it. I usually only use 5 buttons total, including the mouse wheel click for zoom, but it was awesome for RPG style play. My wife loves the blue backlighting too.

Edited by Daekar, 12 April 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Daekar, on 12 April 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

I did, twice. Nobody acknowledged it because there's no refuting it - the fact that they intentionally decreased the sizes of groups in the pug queue to improve the pug experience is a direct condemnation of groups larger than the size they set, and the game mechanics are set up to enforce that as best they can. Just because you can get around it doesn't mean it's not a rule.

Sorry, can't point to it in the ToS, which is listed on this site, then I have to say...

[Silentium]

I have dropped with these guys; generally agreeable folks I have found. I nearly always pug too. Hell, I think our pug blob beat them a couple times; premade groups aren't an auto-win button.

I don't understand what drives them to choose bacon over toast though, I mean, bacon is good..........but toast.

[MischiefSC]

Here's the thing though Roadbeer -

They might be filling matches round-robin, not one bucket at a time. That would in fact be more effective using the new tier system and the nature of 3/3/3/3 - it accelerates the filling of all matches instead of just first-come-first-served.

This would effectively wipe out sync dropping completely. You drop together you're MORE likely to end up in different matches.

Even if it's still just buckets in order it's also factoring exact tonnage in each weight class and trying to match Elo as tightly as possible. This means that there's plenty of unpredictable draws on your solo teammates.

Good luck I guess, though honestly if they start banning everyone who sync drops I wouldn't complain. I'm all for a queue for you guys - I really am. I get that you want to play together and I want you to play together.

If your getting to play together means the game is less fun for me though (because it's giving larger groups an increased team population advantage) then you're cheating. It's getting an advantage via abusing the system. There's no difference between that and buying gold ammo for example and it absolutely deserves the same contempt.

Again, you should have a way to play with your friends. If MW:O isn't functioning for that though and isn't catering to what you want from the game then abusing the system to try and do so when it also literally shafts the game for everyone else you play with.... well, I can't support that and if PGI is even vaguely interested in keeping the game fun and balanced for everyone then it needs stomped on.

[Daekar]

Roadbeer, on 12 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Sorry, can't point to it in the ToS, which is listed on this site, then I have to say...

That would be here:

Quote

Exploiting / Griefing / Non-Participation
Our definition of Exploiting / Griefing includes:
Wilfully or repeatedly destroying Teammate or Lancemate 'Mechs.
Wilfully or repeatedly self-destructing one's 'Mech by Overheating or going Out-of-Bounds
Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.
Wilfully or repeatedly spamming in-game chat.
Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics.
Wilfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain

From this page: http://mwomercs.com/...onduct-expanded

[Roadbeer]

MischiefSC, on 12 April 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

I'm all for a queue for you guys - I really am. I get that you want to play together and I want you to play together.

Daekar, on 12 April 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

That would be here:


From this page: http://mwomercs.com/...onduct-expanded

Looks like everyone may get what they want...
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3289728



Oh, and Daekar, if sync dropping was what was implied there, then most of House Marik, a good chunk of the FRR and anyone who participated on COMSTARs Tuesday events, would all have been in violation and have been banned, they have ALL been heavily advertised events, and nothing has been said about it since...well.... ever.
So it's nice that you take that as a violation of the ToS, but in reality, it's a method that, if not supported, than a blind eye has been turned to for over a year now.

Edited by Roadbeer, 12 April 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[Amsro]

Daekar, on 12 April 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

That would be here:


From this page: http://mwomercs.com/...onduct-expanded

Playing with other people is a team gain, not personal.

Just advocate for a solo que already. I pug and group play, I can say for certainty that the matchmaker is currently trolling EVERYONE and unless your win/loss ratio is over 2.0 I doubt anyone is getting any advantage.

The Devs have stated before that 12-0 "pug" stomps were typically dished out by... wait for it.. 12 solo players on one team. No team boggie man to be seen.

Ghost Heat
Ghost Cover
Ghost Detection
last but not least
Ghost Problems. Ahhh team players are here to eat us all!!..

Solo Que
Team Que

It is the ONLY sane thing to do.

[Amsro]

MischiefSC, on 12 April 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Here's the thing though Roadbeer -

They might be filling matches round-robin, not one bucket at a time. That would in fact be more effective using the new tier system and the nature of 3/3/3/3 - it accelerates the filling of all matches instead of just first-come-first-served.

This would effectively wipe out sync dropping completely. You drop together you're MORE likely to end up in different matches.

Even if it's still just buckets in order it's also factoring exact tonnage in each weight class and trying to match Elo as tightly as possible. This means that there's plenty of unpredictable draws on your solo teammates.

Good luck I guess, though honestly if they start banning everyone who sync drops I wouldn't complain. I'm all for a queue for you guys - I really am. I get that you want to play together and I want you to play together.

If your getting to play together means the game is less fun for me though (because it's giving larger groups an increased team population advantage) then you're cheating. It's getting an advantage via abusing the system. There's no difference between that and buying gold ammo for example and it absolutely deserves the same contempt.

Again, you should have a way to play with your friends. If MW:O isn't functioning for that though and isn't catering to what you want from the game then abusing the system to try and do so when it also literally shafts the game for everyone else you play with.... well, I can't support that and if PGI is even vaguely interested in keeping the game fun and balanced for everyone then it needs stomped on.

If the matchmaker simply matched teams then you would likely have increased enjoyment from the game. Instead now you get a 4+3 sync on one side with 2 4 man on the other. Not a terrible difference but a notable advantage of 7 on coms. This could be avoided with LESS restrictions.

[Mystere]

dimstog, on 12 April 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

Ah, I see what you mean. Well, to be honest I have no other solution at hand. Maybe the new 3/3/3/3 matchmaker that supposedly will put a premade in each team will alleviate that (and according to this thread will create a whole slew of other problems at the the same time).

The solution actually looks pretty obvious I do not know why it's not being done: replace the 12-man queue with an "anything goes" queue that allows groups of 2-12 players and daring( ) soloists to join.

Or is it not being done because it will go against some monetization strategy?

[wintersborn]

I wonder if PGI knows how bad their "Protected" forum bullies have ruined their reputation on other sites?

That reputation has cost them money that much is sure, I wonder just how much more they want to loose?

You ever wonder why personal attacks, insults, trolling, spam etc. is only allowed by some people/groups?

I was told that "The game is boring and kinda sucks and the A-Holes on the forums made me uninstall before I could buy my first mech, sorry". This was another kid in my brothers unit and it shows how some casual players feel about this game when they are not die hard fans of the IP.

If the game is bad then how is a bad community going to help?

[Roadbeer]

wintersborn, on 12 April 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

I wonder if PGI knows how bad their "Protected" forum bullies have ruined their reputation on other sites?

That reputation has cost them money that much is sure, I wonder just how much more they want to loose?

You ever wonder why personal attacks, insults, trolling, spam etc. is only allowed by some people/groups?

I was told that "The game is boring and kinda sucks and the A-Holes on the forums made me uninstall before I could buy my first mech, sorry". This was another kid in my brothers unit and it shows how some casual players feel about this game when they are not die hard fans of the IP.

If the game is bad then how is a bad community going to help?

I lol'd

[MischiefSC]

Roadbeer, on 12 April 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

Looks like everyone may get what they want...
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3289728



Oh, and Daekar, if sync dropping was what was implied there, then most of House Marik, a good chunk of the FRR and anyone who participated on COMSTARs Tuesday events, would all have been in violation and have been banned, they have ALL been heavily advertised events, and nothing has been said about it since...well.... ever.
So it's nice that you take that as a violation of the ToS, but in reality, it's a method that, if not supported, than a blind eye has been turned to for over a year now.

Shouldn't have linked me to that. I just wrote a novel at Karl. Didn't even mean to. Still...

you could do a team queue. It'd be a hassle, but you could. I could make Elo work for that. Again, a hassle though. A tough thing to justify without knowing what the demand and response for it would be. If, however, you replaced 12mans with just a team queue... we know 12mans are a tiny population that could easily move.

A lobby though. That would be huge. It would also destroy the value of Elo if you can pick both teams. Then again teams that roflstomp everyone will have trouble finding matches due to self-selection; who wants to play them all the time?

It might work. I'd have to chew on it a bit, it's not that tough I just don't want to work more than the 4 mandatory hours I've already got on my weekend

[Silentium]

A lot of folks would probably be better off for not visiting the forums; I count myself among them. Alas, the die is cast, and there is no going back now.

Damn you premade forum warriors! DAMN YOU!!!!11!

[Craig Steele]

Mystere, on 12 April 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

The solution actually looks pretty obvious I do not know why it's not being done: replace the 12-man queue with an "anything goes" queue that allows groups of 2-12 players and daring( ) soloists to join.

Or is it not being done because it will go against some monetization strategy?

On face value, its more likely not being done because there are not enough players to populate the queue.

Having said that, the people who do want it are about to spam how wrong the statistics are so to justify that there is a population, notwithstanding that PGI who have all the data (and professional analysis of it) and a commercial motivation (as opposed to a personal motivation) to guide their decision making process.

A possible scenario is that if Premium match use is as popular as the presenters here argue 5 - 11 team play is, then the stats will support a relaxing of the criteria. It will become part of the core of the game.

But the preference for 5 - 11 teams is until they get their way they'll screw over everyone else so that we can all be miserable together. That's the point of this thread anyway.

Hysterical flaming, snide comments, irrational bickering and direct abuse coming in 3, 2, 1 .......

[Roadbeer]

Craig Steele, on 12 April 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

On face value, its more likely not being done because there are not enough players to populate the queue.

Having said that, the people who do want it are about to spam how wrong the statistics are so to justify that there is a population, notwithstanding that PGI who have all the data (and professional analysis of it) and a commercial motivation (as opposed to a personal motivation) to guide their decision making process.

A possible scenario is that if Premium match use is as popular as the presenters here argue 5 - 11 team play is, then the stats will support a relaxing of the criteria. It will become part of the core of the game.

But the preference for 5 - 11 teams is until they get their way they'll screw over everyone else so that we can all be miserable together. That's the point of this thread anyway.

Hysterical flaming, snide comments, irrational bickering and direct abuse coming in 3, 2, 1 .......

Nah, looks like we've won and will get what we've been asking for in some way

Anything else you have to say on the topic is irrelevant.

[Mystere]

Craig Steele, on 12 April 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

On face value, its more likely not being done because there are not enough players to populate the queue.

Given that the pure 12-mans are "population deficient", what is the problem with replacing it?

Edited by Mystere, 12 April 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Roadbeer, on 12 April 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Nah, looks like we've won and will get what we've been asking for in some way

Anything else you have to say on the topic is irrelevant.

The thread says they are working on CW and Clans and some other undisclosed projects?

But I do love how you think your mindless ranting and feet stamping here in forums has overnight changed PGI's priority, that chip on your shoulder must be be a drag some days, but not today it seems.

Oh wait, this where I should have just typed

"I lol'd"

[Roadbeer]

I get it, reading comprehension is the issue you have.

Sandpit, on 12 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

First

Thank you Karl. This kind of thread and interaction is much appreciated. Now if you could just convince some of the others over there to do the same once in a while....

In regards to ideas for groups:

Separate queues: Instead of having a 12man queue like we do now, or relegating them strictly to private matches. Why can't we just convert the 12man queue into a 5+ queue. So if you form a group of 5+ you are entered into teh 12man queue. Other players can opt into this queue as well but not be forced to join it. Keep the current plan for 4mans in the pug queue with the same limitations that have been discussed as in only one premade per side.
This solves the issue of groups "preying" on pugs while giving everyone the opportunity to play in CW, earn rewards, and play how they like.
(Sidenote: Elo, Elo would work MUCH better for groups if instead of averaging everyone's Elo you averaged the top 2-3 Elos in the group and used that as the group Elo. The means you wouldn't be able to sink Elos with a few players to drop into a lower tier bucket. If players want to group up they'll have to step up and play against stiffer opposition which would help offset the advantages that come with being a premade such as voip)

or

Private matches: This idea is also a good one with a few caveats.
Rewards (There's not much point in playing a game if you can't advance in that game, buy new mechs, master a chassis, etc.)
Some sort of lobby system where you don't have to individually invite players by their pilot name. This is not intuitive and just sets up a situation where "See? We gave you groups and CW!" while the reality of the situation is that, yes, we would be given CW and such but it's so hard to get a match together there's not much point in it. Don't just give this lip service.

or

Instead of taking any averages for Elo, you take the top Elo of the group and use that for MM. You could also place premades into a "special" bucket that automatically places them at the higher end of the Elo brackets. This prevents groups from dropping against new players and lower spectrum players which would help mitigate roflstomps. It gives players in groups the ability to play and not be punished. (I don't think playing at a higher Elo is a punishment as teamwork and voip go a long way of artificially boosting Elo for the purposes we are talking about here)

There's a few ideas on how to integrate this. The separate queues would probably be the most straightforward way to go about it but most of us are open to just about any idea that lets us group up past 4 and just play the game as everyone else can.

Karl Berg, on 12 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Some excellent ideas there. I think you'll be pleased within the next few weeks.

That has very little to do with CW or Clans... and only the most obtuse would say otherwise.

Oh wait.

That's ok, we'll see who's right soon^TM