36 replies to this topic

[Flyto]

I already have a set of three Shadowhawks, and enjoy them a lot. I'm looking at future mechs, and looking at Griffins and Wolverines, and... they don't seem so very different. There seem to be a LOT of 55 ton jumpjetting mediums available nowadays ;-)

From a glance at smurfy I get the feeling that where Shadowhawks have a ballistic emphasis, both of the other types are more energy and missle oriented... but can anybody give a succinct overview of how these 3 classes are different, in terms of what loadouts work well or how they play?

Thanks.

[Kyynele]

SH has better hardpoints in general than any of the others and maybe slightly better hitboxes?

The only thing I find both Griffin and Wolverine do significantly better than SHs is torso twisting, with full elites you can basically fire even directly behind you.

edit: also, the Wolverine without jumpjets is 100% garbage.

Edited by Kyynele, 07 April 2014 - 06:56 AM.

[Roachbugg]

The Griff has the benefit of being one of the best looking mechs in the game and the wolverine has the benefit of being the ugliest?

[Fang01]

Wolverines are the smallest physically and tank damage better than the others. This makes them great brawlers/strikers (met a DDC alone at the cave entrance on forest yesterday, couldn't maneuver around him and had to trade shots one for one. Lost both arms and was open cored chest with yellow. Still killed him and went on to drop two more with my Artemis triple srm4s)

Griff seems best used for long range fire support and as an alternate to the 2d2 streak boat. Great torso twist

Shads are the most rounded of the bunch. Strong everywhere and tank ballistics well

[Cabusha]

Griffin has Cent-like arms which makes it very survivable. The Grf-3m with LPL + 4xssrm all in torso is a great light hunter and assault harasser.

[Escef]

Griffins and Wolverines have much better torso twist and arm articulation than Shadowhawks. Shadowhawks have better hardpoints. The Wolverines really aren't so hot compared the Griffins at all, the only Wolverine with anything to recommend itself is the 6R, as it can mount a ballistic (feels kind of like a CN9-A or D that jumps), the 7K wolverine is ok, and the 6K is actually somewhat inferior to the CN9-AL.

[FupDup]

Shadow Hawk: Best hardpoints

Griffin/Wolvie: Best agility

Griffin: Better hardpoints than Wolvie

IMO, the Griffin also has much better hitboxes than the Shad because its side torsos are much larger (Shad has a pretty big CT) and the agility helps it make better use of its hitboxes. I haven't used Wolvies in a long time so I don't remember how good those were in comparison.

Edited by FupDup, 07 April 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

I'd argue the hard points on the Shadowhawk. But, I think that most people that use that arguement are doing so because they're pairing ACs with PPCs or running the jump capable Hunchback. And, a lot of those same people run with arm lock on to get around the issue of aiming the arm based PPC and the torso locked AC (can be difficult if you don't use the toggle). Once SRMs get their hit registry fixed, the Shad 2D2 could be especially nasty. Does great at medium speeds.

The Griffin is the best option for missiles and energy. It has wonderful shield arms to help absorb damage but that also comes as a down side when you lose your energy arm. It makes for a great jump sniper/support mech and does a much better job than the Shad as it pairs high heat damage with energy efficient missiles. Does equally well at slow to medium speeds.

The Wolverine is the worst of the three but is much smaller and is, to a point, a jump capable Hunchback 4SP. It is much tankier than the others but much uglier - still not sure what is up with the flaps on the side. Best run at high speeds.

The big thing is that each has that speed sweet spot. Shawks are in the middle, Griffs can be in the middle or on the slow end (if you want to mass missiles), while the Wolverine is best suited jacking up the speed as fast as it can go (makes for a great in close skirmisher).

[Spheroid]

The Wolverine 6R and 7K are loads of fun and take damage with an XL very well. IMHO the Griffins invest too much in their right arm which invariably gets shot off.

Lots of weird effective 3M builds though.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 April 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Rhent]

The SHK-2D2 is currently the best SSRM boat in the game. All of the SSRM's are protected by the torsos and head and the mech comes with JJ's, meanwhile the Kintaro has too many arm mounts for its SSRM's and no JJ's, making it a piss poor brawler.

The GRF-1N will be the best SRM6 boat for mediums once SRM's get fixed. If has 3 energy hard points right arm and 3 missile hard points right torso. You can use the entire left side as a shield and do some very good focused shots with your right.

Edited by Rhent, 07 April 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[Escef]

Rhent, on 07 April 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

The SHK-2D2 is currently the best SSRM boat in the game. All of the SSRM's are protected by the torsos and head and the mech comes with JJ's, meanwhile the Kintaro has too many arm mounts for its SSRM's and no JJ's, making it a piss poor brawler.

I have to say that this isn't quite correct, the 3M Griffin is better, as the more generous torso and arm articulation allows it to maintain Streak lock more easily on fast moving mechs or while maneuvering itself.

[DONTOR]

Kyynele, on 07 April 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

SH has better hardpoints in general than any of the others and maybe slightly better hitboxes?

The only thing I find both Griffin and Wolverine do significantly better than SHs is torso twisting, with full elites you can basically fire even directly behind you.

edit: also, the Wolverine without jumpjets is 100% garbage.

Disagree, the WVR 6K (no JJs) is an excellent flanker at 121KPH, 5 energy hardpoints works very well with the XL375 which still allows for 16 tons of weaponry.
It is the best WVR in my opinion and I have played them all, no JJ for more speed and energy weapons seems to work very nicely, atleast for my playstyle.
The 1 missle slot is a bit of a toss up, go LRM if you want more ranged punch or ASRM6 if you want more kill power when your energy fist gets blown off (which, if you arent careful will happen)

the 2 builds I use with great success are:
ENDO,FERRO,XL375,max armor minus left arm.
3MPL, 1 ML, 1ASRM6
or
4MLs, 1MPL, 1SRM6

Edited by DONTOR, 07 April 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

I have mastered the Shad, and elited the Griffin. I have not played the Wolverine. So I will go on to tell you about the Griffin.
The Griffin is one of the most maneuverable mechs in the game. It has great torso twist, and it can turn fast too.

[Xenon Codex]

Griffin has the best cockpit view of the three. Just for that alone I really enjoying playing it. I typically use mine as a highly mobile missile platform, but it does well in a lot of other roles.

Haven't found the sweet spot with any of the Wolverines, though I've only got one of them fully elited with 2x bonuses so far.

[Corbon Zackery]

All 3 of these mechs have flaws and issues. They also have benefits.

Shadow Hawk
Is basically a hunchback with 5 extra tons to play with. Because the cannon takes up any were from 6 to 15 tons its armament and speed is limited. forcing you to sacrifice something to gain another. The Head missile slot limits the type of missile build since you can only put a SRM 2 4, streak 2, or LRM 5 in the slot. The other thing is the AMS slot being in the Ballistic torso limits the size of the cannon. So if you want a gauss or AC 20 your not going to be mounting a AMS system. Most working versions of the shadow-hawk focus on speed and mobility.
AC 2, ER large laser, streak launchers, JJ

But I like to go big AC 20 Big on 2 of the versions. Except for the SHD-2D2 2 large lasers, Ultra AC 5 and streaks.

Griffins:
They have issues because the Hard points are all on one side of the mech. This makes it easy to strip them of weapons. Because all the lasers are in one arm its easy to cut there firepower by 60% just by selective targeting. Since there other weapons are missile based its easy for them to become walking armor. I find a good mix of Lasers, SRM, and LRM work well allowing you to engage at multiple ranges. Except for the GRF-3M 2 ER PPC link fired, LRM 10 and 3 Streak Launchers gives you a nice middle of the pack assault harasser with the LRM 10 for High heat shooting.

Wolverines: These have the same issue as the Griffin all laser hardpoints in one arm making it easy to strip the mech of 60% of its firepower with one lucky hit. I know its shocking but I have found that pulse lasers were the way to go with the Wolverines. This due to maximizing the head laser mount. In the case of the WVR-6R I found that speed, JJ, MG, M. pulse, and SRM 6 was the way to go this gave me a 109KPH waking mech of death. That would plow into you with 18 SRM, and no real heat issues MG no heat, one pulse laser not going to overheat you 3 SRM 6 are also on the low heat scale.

Hopefully this helps.

[Escef]

Corbon Zackery, on 07 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

All 3 of these mechs have flaws and issues. They also have benefits.

Shadow Hawk
Is basically a hunchback with 5 extra tons to play with. Because the cannon takes up any were from 6 to 15 tons its armament and speed is limited. forcing you to sacrifice something to gain another. The Head missile slot limits the type of missile build since you can only put a SRM 2 4, streak 2, or LRM 5 in the slot. The other thing is the AMS slot being in the Ballistic torso limits the size of the cannon. So if you want a gauss or AC 20 your not going to be mounting a AMS system. Most working versions of the shadow-hawk focus on speed and mobility.
AC 2, ER large laser, streak launchers, JJ

Except, of course, that you are not required to use the ballistics. Many people kit out the 2D2 as twin MLs, quad Streaks, BAP, armor, and a maxed out XL engine and use it as a light hunter. As for the AMS slot being alongside the ballistic, I don't see how that stops you from using a Gauss or AC20. There's 12 critical slots there, Gauss takes 7, AC20 takes 10, AMS only 1.

7 + 1 < 12, 10 + 1 < 12, what's the issue?

Corbon Zackery, on 07 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Griffins:
They have issues because the Hard points are all on one side of the mech. This makes it easy to strip them of weapons. Because all the lasers are in one arm its easy to cut there firepower by 60% just by selective targeting. Since there other weapons are missile based its easy for them to become walking armor. I find a good mix of Lasers, SRM, and LRM work well allowing you to engage at multiple ranges. Except for the GRF-3M 2 ER PPC link fired, LRM 10 and 3 Streak Launchers gives you a nice middle of the pack assault harasser with the LRM 10 for High heat shooting.

The Griffin 1S has its missiles on the left torso, and the 3M has an energy slot on the left torso. Not that the side really matters much, as you are most likely going to run an XL engine. So losing either side loses the mech.

Corbon Zackery, on 07 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Wolverines: These have the same issue as the Griffin all laser hardpoints in one arm making it easy to strip the mech of 60% of its firepower with one lucky hit.

I've found how much firepower you lose with the loss of the arm is entirely dependent on your build. My 6R would only lose a third of its firepower with the arm, the 7K would lose half, the 6K somewhere between. 60% is an outrageously high guesstimate.

Corbon Zackery, on 07 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Hopefully this helps.

As always, Corbon, it's an experience reading your posts.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Shadow Hawks are the best of the three Project Phoenix mediums.

The Griffins work well, and the only problem I might have with them is they're generally too similar to each other. The 3M is my favorite as I can put the ER-PPC in the chest where it will survive longer in a fight, and not worry about just a single medium laser in the arm if it is shot off.

The Wolverines are the opposite. All three have significant differences, and a lot of that is not for the best. The original Wolvie is the only one with an autocannon, but lacks medium lasers to back it up properly. The middle one has no jump jets, all of its energy in the arm, and only 1 missile, making it my least favorite. The 3rd one is more balanced, and it works well with lots of SRM's.

For me the Shadow Hawk is the best, the Wolverine is the worst, and the Griffin is decent.

[Kubernetes]

SHawk is the best, if only because of the high torso-mounted ballistic(s). Still, I much prefer driving my Griffin 3M.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

As a long time medium pilot I'd personally say the Shadow Hawk is the best of the group. While someone said it had a larger Center Torso...that's a good thing in the Shadow Hawks case. The thing rocks an XL Engine like it's going out of business.

The thing can just take a beating and keep on ticking. And with the weapons where they are located, losing one piece of your mech isn't the end of the world.

If I have to invest in one mech, and I say this across the board lights to assaults, it's a Shadow Hawk.

[Deathlike]

XenonCx, on 07 April 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Griffin has the best cockpit view of the three. Just for that alone I really enjoying playing it. I typically use mine as a highly mobile missile platform, but it does well in a lot of other roles.

Ironically, I think the Griffin's cockpit is easier to core with Airstrikes for the same reason... not that should be a deterrent.

I'm still struggling to think of a good Wolverine-6R build (at least just pondering a decent build for it is difficult). I've seen more decent builds on a Shadowhawk-2H due to hardpoint locations and numbers (who can't say no to the dakka/ammo dump).

The Wolverine-7K seems like the best of the bunch of Wolvies.

The 6K... looks uninspired. Is there's a serious difference between 360XL and 375XL at this point?

ShadowHawk - jack of all trades+
Griffin - mobile, crazy agile missile heaven/hell
Wolverine - I has laser in head?