36 replies to this topic

[Pastor Priest]

While I agree the SHD is the best of the three, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I like the Wolverines as much, if not more, than the Griffins. Mostly because that 6R ballistic is so nice. It tanks well, and with a 300XL, it has good mobility and firepower. For the 6K, I struggled to get a build going at first, but settled on two ER LLs and filled the rest of the energy points with MLs and a SRM for the missile. It hurts vulnerable targets at multiple ranges. You really need to protect that arm, though.

[Macksheen]

Newish guy, but just got done doing this same exercise (not quite, still working on Master on my Griffins).

SHD have unique things they can do with those ballistic mounts. I messed around with each, settling on a 3xAC2, 1xAC20 and currently a 2D2 running energy and streaks. I really enjoy an arm-aimable direct fire weapon paired with streaks.

The Wolverines were odd. I expected to love them, but that is some pen and paper coming through. I did the 6K as a mix of energy and 3x streaks; it did fine. I tooled it a bit for LRMs when they were amped a few weeks back, still did ok ... but just didn't feel as good as the SHD. The ballistic WVR I ran similar to how I'd run a SHD, and it did OK as well. Effective, but I just didn't feel like it was much better and really when you take a step back, it's solidly limited with its ballistic options. The all-energy WVR I was sure I'd hate; no jump jets, etc. etc. and for some stupid reason, I tore everything up with it. No idea how or why, but across 40 or so matches, it's got the best stats of the WVRs for me. I've set them aside (elited, not mastered) for the hit-reg update and may re-do one or two of them into SRM brawlers.

The GRF-1N is my favorite of the jumpy streak boats. I ran it w/ 2 ERLL, 4 streaks, BAP - really fun. I had my 2d2 configured similarly, but since I have GRF now my 2d2 is adding some ballistics back in. I'm running the 1S right now with a LRM15+10, TAG and MLs. It isn't so much fun, but it works. The remaining I'll try either w/ 3xSRM6 or 3xLRM10.

I'm not shy about ditching chassis I don't like. At the end of the day, should I clean house again soon, I'll end up keeping all 3 SHD variants but probably ditching one or two of the others. I have a special place in my heart for dakka, and the SHD delivers.

[Bishop Steiner]

Trauglodyte, on 07 April 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

I'd argue the hard points on the Shadowhawk. But, I think that most people that use that arguement are doing so because they're pairing ACs with PPCs or running the jump capable Hunchback. And, a lot of those same people run with arm lock on to get around the issue of aiming the arm based PPC and the torso locked AC (can be difficult if you don't use the toggle). Once SRMs get their hit registry fixed, the Shad 2D2 could be especially nasty. Does great at medium speeds.

The Griffin is the best option for missiles and energy. It has wonderful shield arms to help absorb damage but that also comes as a down side when you lose your energy arm. It makes for a great jump sniper/support mech and does a much better job than the Shad as it pairs high heat damage with energy efficient missiles. Does equally well at slow to medium speeds.

The Wolverine is the worst of the three but is much smaller and is, to a point, a jump capable Hunchback 4SP. It is much tankier than the others but much uglier - still not sure what is up with the flaps on the side. Best run at high speeds.

The big thing is that each has that speed sweet spot. Shawks are in the middle, Griffs can be in the middle or on the slow end (if you want to mass missiles), while the Wolverine is best suited jacking up the speed as fast as it can go (makes for a great in close skirmisher).

Or, like my 2D2, run as an all purpose harasser? Run a 280XL, UAC5, 2 medium lasers and 4 SSRMs. It can go toe to toe with anything in the game thanks to it's combination of firepower, heat endurance, agility and speed and hitboxes. It's surpassed in pretty much all of those categories by one or the other mechs, but no Griffin or Wolverine can combine all those attributes so well.

Simply put, if the ShadowHawk 2D2 had agility and FoV like the Griffin, it would be the hands down best chassis in the game. PPCX/AC meta or not. (Which is why I like who they nerfed those two aspects to give the Griff/Wolvie a legit place still.)

Thing is, the ShadowHawk is uninspired and boring, cosmetically. (Though at least it ain't down right ugly like the Wolvie), the Griffin reminds me of those old 1930s and 1940s bombers, with an elegance unseen by pretty much any other design in the game. Combine that with the 7JJ, best agility in the game...and it is hands down my favorite mech. (Even though I fight better in the Shad, still).

[Flyto]

Deathlike, on 07 April 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

ShadowHawk - jack of all trades+
Griffin - mobile, crazy agile missile heaven/hell
Wolverine - I has laser in head?

*grin* Thank you to Deathlike and to everybody else who has responded. Well, except for those who failed to read the question and recommended Shadowhawks ;-) A good range of opinions there. I think I might try a Griffin soon. (Or possibly buy two more Orions or two more Battlemasters. Who knows....)

[Escef]

Deathlike, on 07 April 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

I'm still struggling to think of a good Wolverine-6R build (at least just pondering a decent build for it is difficult).

Try THIS. It's basically a Centurion that swaps one of the center-line MLs for jump jets.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolverines:
WVR-K: NONE.

WVR-6R Support/Harasser
WVR-6R "Lemon Peeler"
WVR-7K

Griffins:
GRF-1N "Bishop's Pet"
Since the stat wipe and LRM buff/nerf, my primary mech
GRF-3M Crimson Dynamo
Pre wipe, my primary Griffin, and my preferred PUG match mech still.
GRF-1S "Rabid Beaver"
A slightly different take on the scout hunter role. More about the wubwub love than the usual ssrms.
GRF-1S "Traditionalist"

TBH, just like my SHDs, I feel little need to use engines above the 280xl in general. Trade off in weapon payload simply is not worth it, IMO.

[Maverick27]

Escef, on 08 April 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

Try THIS. It's basically a Centurion that swaps one of the center-line MLs for jump jets.

I too love that build though I dropped some JJs and switched the ML for MPL. Lately though I've upped the speed and traded the AC10 for a UAC.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6e281c0e8a130c7

[Simbacca]

Spheroid, on 07 April 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

The Wolverine 6R and 7K are loads of fun and take damage with an XL very well. IMHO the Griffins invest too much in their right arm which invariably gets shot off.

Lots of weird effective 3M builds though.

I agree - that is why I prefer the Wolverine as their energy weapons are spread out. Too many times in my Griffin-1N and -1S I have had all my energy weapons removed due to loosing said arm. I effectively regulate my Griffins (all 3 variants) to a ranged role - to help mitigate that issue.

[C E Dwyer]

Other than the Capellan designed non jumping wolverine which makes me a sad bunny they're all good to a degree.

It was along time ago that actually buying mech for anything but the look of the skin had any relevance, and willremain so until PGI alter and restrict the customisation system

[Escef]

Maverick27, on 08 April 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

I too love that build though I dropped some JJs and switched the ML for MPL. Lately though I've upped the speed and traded the AC10 for a UAC.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6e281c0e8a130c7

If you want to get silly, you could swap the UAC out for an AC2 and drop in a 360XL.

Cathy, on 08 April 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Other than the Capellan designed non jumping wolverine which makes me a sad bunny they're all good to a degree.

That's actually a Drac mech, not Cappie.

[Tremendous Upside]

Deathlike, on 07 April 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

I'm still struggling to think of a good Wolverine-6R build (at least just pondering a decent build for it is difficult). I've seen more decent builds on a Shadowhawk-2H due to hardpoint locations and numbers (who can't say no to the dakka/ammo dump).

The strength of the 6R has less to do with it's hardpoints and everything to do with the chassis itself. The SHDs are clearly better choices if jump-sniping or pure DF support is your game. The Wolverine has a greater torso pitch angle than the other 55-tonners though. It's among the best in the game in that regard. It also has excellent torso twist and arm-traverse range -- allowing you to shoot above and below your viewport (and directly behind yourself as well). It's a much better "knife-fighter" than the SHD because of this. It excels at fighting on hillsides and inclines - places where the bad guys can't pitch their weapons up or down enough to fire back at you.

With that said, I think the best builds for the 6R are the ones that build around sustained, high ROF weapons over high alpha, low ROF ones. Being able to shake-lock your target as you're jetting around/over/under it makes taking down solo targets a lot easier than trying to square up and punch a hole through them as you trade/alternate volleys... Dual ballistics + streaks are brutal in a mech where you can land your shots facing almost 90 degrees from the target.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 07 April 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

I'm still struggling to think of a good Wolverine-6R build (at least just pondering a decent build for it is difficult). I've seen more decent builds on a Shadowhawk-2H due to hardpoint locations and numbers (who can't say no to the dakka/ammo dump).

The Wolverine-7K seems like the best of the bunch of Wolvies.

The 6K... looks uninspired. Is there's a serious difference between 360XL and 375XL at this point?

ShadowHawk - jack of all trades+
Griffin - mobile, crazy agile missile heaven/hell
Wolverine - I has laser in head?

I've never been a big fan of the Shadowhawk. It is butt ugly, worse than the Wolvie in my opinion, and the ballistic slot impairs your field of view. I can't stand it but I make mine work (PPC, UAC5, SRM6, TAG w/ a 300 XL). But, you're absolutely correct that it has enough options that it can fill any role.

The Griffin is just amazing. I'm running a 280XL in mine so it is slightly slower than my Shawk but the ability to see EVERYTHING makes it the best all on its own. The ability to use half of your body to shield incoming damage is also a definite plus.

As to the Wolverine, the non-JJ version is complete garbage. But, I'm loving my 7K when my SRMs actually work.

Bishop Steiner, on 07 April 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

Or, like my 2D2, run as an all purpose harasser? Run a 280XL, UAC5, 2 medium lasers and 4 SSRMs. It can go toe to toe with anything in the game thanks to it's combination of firepower, heat endurance, agility and speed and hitboxes. It's surpassed in pretty much all of those categories by one or the other mechs, but no Griffin or Wolverine can combine all those attributes so well.

Simply put, if the ShadowHawk 2D2 had agility and FoV like the Griffin, it would be the hands down best chassis in the game. PPCX/AC meta or not. (Which is why I like who they nerfed those two aspects to give the Griff/Wolvie a legit place still.)

Thing is, the ShadowHawk is uninspired and boring, cosmetically. (Though at least it ain't down right ugly like the Wolvie), the Griffin reminds me of those old 1930s and 1940s bombers, with an elegance unseen by pretty much any other design in the game. Combine that with the 7JJ, best agility in the game...and it is hands down my favorite mech. (Even though I fight better in the Shad, still).

Like I said above, I do agree that the Shadowhawk is just all around good. But, that isn't because it is good at any one thing but rather because it can do almost everything great (can't do the energy boat thing but that is ok). I'll take both my Griffin and Wolverine over the Shawk any day of the week, though.

Great reference to the WWII bombers, btw. Well done sire! /salute

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Wolverines:
WVR-K: NONE.

WVR-6R Support/Harasser
WVR-6R "Lemon Peeler"
WVR-7K

Griffins:
GRF-1N "Bishop's Pet"
Since the stat wipe and LRM buff/nerf, my primary mech
GRF-3M Crimson Dynamo
Pre wipe, my primary Griffin, and my preferred PUG match mech still.
GRF-1S "Rabid Beaver"
A slightly different take on the scout hunter role. More about the wubwub love than the usual ssrms.
GRF-1S "Traditionalist"

TBH, just like my SHDs, I feel little need to use engines above the 280xl in general. Trade off in weapon payload simply is not worth it, IMO.

I run my Shawks, Griffs, and Wolves kind of the same:

GRF-1N
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bc59729d29cc437

The Streaks/BAP can be pulled to upgrade the LRM to a 15 and add in an ASRM4 (or a 6 pack if you don't mind running with only 1 JJ). You can also pull the Streaks/BAP and drop down to 1 JJ if you want to run 2x ASRM4s. And, finally, you can drop the Streaks/BAP to upgrade the Md Lasers to MPLs and then add in an ASRM4 while adding another 2 JJs. I just love the versatility on this thing. There is also the option to keeping all of the primary weapons listed and dropping down to only 1 JJ to upgrade the engine to a 300XL.

SHD-5M
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...65f6a21b0179de0

I originally had a NARC on this thing but, with the LRM surge dying down, there isn't much need for it. Plus, the Shawk is just so monsterously large that it makes being sneaky with a NARC kind of hard and it lacks the necessary speed to boot. SRM2s aren't the best thing ever but they're good in close and I don't want to drop down to 1 JJ just to upgrade to double Streaks and BAP. The only other option is dropping down to a 280XL and use the extra 1.5 tonsk, in combination with dropping a JJ and removing TAG, to upgrade both launchers to 4s with another ton of ammo.

WVR-7K
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...990197c07b9e63c

I love this thing. Has a ton left over if I want to drop down to 3 ASRM4 packs, upgrade the head laser to an MPL, or add an extra ton of ammo. In the end, this thing has a better burst of speed and is kind of nasty in close. Ugly as sin but it pisses people off.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 08 April 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

I've never been a big fan of the Shadowhawk. It is butt ugly, worse than the Wolvie in my opinion, and the ballistic slot impairs your field of view. I can't stand it but I make mine work (PPC, UAC5, SRM6, TAG w/ a 300 XL). But, you're absolutely correct that it has enough options that it can fill any role.

Well, noone said the mech had to be pretty. Didn't they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

Considering that fielding a Highlander that has "side torso flaps" that hinder cockpit vision or BJs with their weapons influencing my vision. The Shadowhawk's torso dakka is nothing, comparatively speaking.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 08 April 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Well, noone said the mech had to be pretty. Didn't they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

Considering that fielding a Highlander that has "side torso flaps" that hinder cockpit vision or BJs with their weapons influencing my vision. The Shadowhawk's torso dakka is nothing, comparatively speaking.

I never even notice the ac on my Shawk. Literally, while everyone is QQing about the horrible FoV, I tend to be busy using mine to kill them. Make no mistake I like the view from my Griff better, and the Griff is my mach of choice, but if we are talking "serious business", I am grabbing my 2D2 or my Ember, period.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 08 April 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Well, noone said the mech had to be pretty. Didn't they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

Considering that fielding a Highlander that has "side torso flaps" that hinder cockpit vision or BJs with their weapons influencing my vision. The Shadowhawk's torso dakka is nothing, comparatively speaking.

I'll give you that. Ugly or not, it's all about getting the job done. If you can drive a mech that looks like a Victoria's Secret model, all the better. Otherwise, keep on trucking in the "great personality".

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I never even notice the ac on my Shawk. Literally, while everyone is QQing about the horrible FoV, I tend to be busy using mine to kill them. Make no mistake I like the view from my Griff better, and the Griff is my mach of choice, but if we are talking "serious business", I am grabbing my 2D2 or my Ember, period.

I haven't figured out what my "best" mech is anymore. Cicadas will always be my #1 but my Victor used to my "cooler" if I needed to end a losing streak. But, I'm souring on the Assault thing and drifting back to all of my Mediums. Loving the Griffin and Wolverine and my Hunchy 4J is just beastly. There is just something satisfying about cruising around in 40-55 tons and blowing up stuff 2x your weight. Of course, there is something extremely annoying about having gnats buzzing around your ears and not being able to kill them cause, well, they're broken (and my aim might be shakey sometimes ).

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 08 April 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

I'll give you that. Ugly or not, it's all about getting the job done. If you can drive a mech that looks like a Victoria's Secret model, all the better. Otherwise, keep on trucking in the "great personality".

Vote Fafnir, vote often.

[Flagrant]

Go team Wolverines! Don't see many of them on the field so it's nice to see fans of them. Still working on finishing my elites but already in love with the 6R.