187 replies to this topic

[Daekar]

LRMs will continue to cause frustration and rage quit threads until indirect fire is nerfed to require NARC or TAG. Being killed by mechs you can't see or hide from is just as miserable an experience as facing stacked ECM in a streak boat.

Nerf indirect fire hard, speed LRMs up, make holding locks harder (smaller circle to keep locks), and then the unfun parts start to go away.

[Joseph Mallan]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 08 April 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Obviously if you are seeing the same thing over and over again, then it is a problem. If you are tired of it you should leave the forum sitpit.

so using this logic, if you keep reading that the OP is full of crap, then he/she must be full of crap... Right?

[DaZur]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 08 April 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

Except it was an issue, still not too sure about the game in it's current state. Before the last patch LRM's were so messed up it was a serious issue. Firing without stable lock would still net damage. The LRMs were fine before if used as a support weapon and in tandem with a team. After that patch they were ridiculous. I did 1200 damage in a round without a spotter with them without even trying after being ripped up in a shadow hawk by them while hugging walls. 15 M/S doesn't seem like it would have corrected all the issues.

It seemed PGI wanted to make the LRMs nearly as useful as direct fire weapons despite having the advantage of indirect fire support. It broke the weapon.

This is a tough one...

Truth is, capable players quickly found ways to counter even the first LRM buff... Others assumed the proverbial "sky is falling" stance and spammed the forums accordingly... That said, and I think it fairly obvious... The Higher the Elo the player, the less the LRMs were an issue... which honestly, stands to reason.

I think the immediate response by the community regarding the LRM was two fold... a.) It demonstrated the number of new(ish) players and their inability to deviate from a set play-style. and b.) How forum hysteria is contagious and how easy it is to sway public opinion with enough issued conviction.

Edited by DaZur, 08 April 2014 - 01:07 PM.

[DaZur]

Daekar, on 08 April 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

LRMs will continue to cause frustration and rage quit threads until indirect fire is nerfed to require NARC or TAG. Being killed by mechs you can't see or hide from is just as miserable an experience as facing stacked ECM in a streak boat.

Nerf indirect fire hard, speed LRMs up, make holding locks harder (smaller circle to keep locks), and then the unfun parts start to go away.

No offense but, If you are being hammered by indirect fire... The campers behind the hills, rocks and building are not what you should be worrying about.... It's the lights and mediums spotting for them.

I'm sorry to say this is a typical response of linear thinking... Getting caught up in the effect not the cause.

Kill the mechs spotting... and those pilots hunkered down now have to venture out and about and in doing so... become dead themselves.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Indirect fire takes FOREVER to kill someone. It's such a terrible mechanic to begin with. I can't believe people are scared of it.

[LawDawg]

DaZur, on 08 April 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

This is a tough one...

Truth is, capable players quickly found ways to counter even the first LRM buff... Others assumed the proverbial "sky is falling" stance and spammed the forums accordingly... That said, and I think it fairly obvious... The Higher the Elo the player, the less the LRMs were an issue... which honestly, stands to reason.

I think the immediate response by the community regarding the LRM was two fold... a.) It demonstrated the number of new(ish) players and their inability to deviate from a set play-style. and b.) How forum hysteria is contagious and how easy it is to sway public opinion with enough issued conviction.

He's got it in a nut shell. When a prevalent build or 2/3 has been so dominant for Soooo long and something comes in and ruins its fun time, weather its nerfs to the mech (it happened) or buffs to another weapon system (it happened), there not going to have a good day. Why? Because it has been going on for so long, the player base has adapted to it and MOST use it. Now its whack a mole.

So now the player base has to re-adjust. But most dont want to. So they come to forums and shed tears. Some Extremely Valid, 99% of them not. "I died cause of TAG being OP"

[Splatshot]

The problem is it is easier to complain, then to adapt.

Happens everywhere these days...

[Mystere]

DaZur, on 08 April 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

No offense but, If you are being hammered by indirect fire... The campers behind the hills, rocks and building are not what you should be worrying about.... It's the lights and mediums spotting for them.

I'm sorry to say this is a typical response of linear thinking... Getting caught up in the effect not the cause.

Kill the mechs spotting... and those pilots hunkered down now have to venture out and about and in doing so... become dead themselves.

One-dimensional thinkers, this game is just overflowing with them ... and MWO is allegedly a "thinking person's" shooter. Phooey, I say!

[Daekar]

DaZur, on 08 April 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

No offense but, If you are being hammered by indirect fire... The campers behind the hills, rocks and building are not what you should be worrying about.... It's the lights and mediums spotting for them.

I'm sorry to say this is a typical response of linear thinking... Getting caught up in the effect not the cause.

Kill the mechs spotting... and those pilots hunkered down now have to venture out and about and in doing so... become dead themselves.

No offense taken! I never said I had trouble with indirect fire, I said the misery and forum whining won't stop until it's nerfed. The only problem I have with LRMs as they stand is that most of the time they're useless, and when they're not I feel dirty for using them, even if it's only a pair of ALRM15 racks on my Catapult - hardly a boating setup. The most useful LRMs I've carried in the last few months is a pair of LRM5s on a brawling Orion, great for grabbing assist damage and keeping people's heads down.

The fact is that the current LRM implementation isn't fun on either side of the reticle.

[DaZur]

Splatshot, on 08 April 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

The problem is it is easier to complain, then to adapt.

QTF...

Alex... What is: "Everybody wins" social codification for the win?

[cSand]

DaZur, on 08 April 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

inability to deviate from a set play-style.

this +1

Most people come to this game not from previous MW titles or sims, but from other FPS games. Being totally honest, aside from some gimmicks, mostly those games are all the same. Run and gun, point and click / gamepad and trigger. Don't get me wrong I love some COD but that standard FPS style doesn't translate well to this game.

So I would say the learning curve certainly large and frustrating for people who try to play this FPS style in a sim gameand don't adapt quickly, since you pretty much have to rework the whole way you play everytime you try a new mech/weapons, while also taking into account other factors like heat, cover, targeting etc..

[Sahoj]

git gud scrub

[wanderer]

It's gotten to the point where I can figure out someone's level of opponents simply by how much LRM QQ they put out.

Again, the better the player, the less effective LRMs become. If you're getting whipped by missiles, you should translate

"INCOMING MISSILES"

as

"DO YOU NEED TO LEARN TO PLAY?"

When INCOMING MISSILES is no longer a death sentence, you have learned. If your team is getting melted by missiles, they are noobs. If you are getting melted by missiles, YOU are a noob. Learn to play. Better players than you, and they are many, do not get choked out under missile barrages. When you see premade LRM lances? They are entertaining themselves. Hunting noobs.

Stop being a noob. That's all there is to it.

[Joseph Mallan]

An interesting thing to me. I have died 11 times so far... in those 11 times the weapons that killed me were:
Laser
AC
Missiles
PPC

&

Machine Guns...

I have died to an excellent blend of damage 10 out of 11 times. Machine guns were in the mix once... to which I figure is a good number as it is one of the smallest weapons in the game. The Genie is out of the LAMP.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 April 2014 - 04:16 AM.

[cSand]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 April 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

An interesting thing to me. I have died 11 times so far... in those 11 times the weapons that killed me were:
Laser
AC
Missiles
PPC

&

Machine Guns...

I have died to an excellent blend of damage 10 out of 11 times. Machine guns were in the mix once... to which I figure is a good number as it is one of the smallest weapons in the game. The Genie is out of the LAMP.

Would you say you........







love lamp?

Edited by cSand, 09 April 2014 - 03:30 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

DaZur, on 08 April 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

This is a tough one...

Truth is, capable players quickly found ways to counter even the first LRM buff... Others assumed the proverbial "sky is falling" stance and spammed the forums accordingly... That said, and I think it fairly obvious... The Higher the Elo the player, the less the LRMs were an issue... which honestly, stands to reason.

Nuh uh!!! Veteran players have had WAY more trouble adapting to faster missiles compared to newbs.

You know how how I know I'm right?

Because Paul said so.

[wanderer]

Ghost Badger, on 09 April 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Nuh uh!!! Veteran players have had WAY more trouble adapting to faster missiles compared to newbs.

You know how how I know I'm right?

Because Paul said so.

Paul- Higher ELO players aren't adapting to the new LRMs as fast.

Reality: Higher ELO players weren't USING the new LRMs much because frankly, the old tricks countered them pretty much the same as usual anyway, meaning the dakka/PPC order of things remained unchanged.

[Thorqemada]

LRM would be quite well if it was not about superboating and almost unlimited ammo (plenty of ammo for the duration of a match).

[Rex Budman]

DaZur, on 08 April 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

This is a tough one...

Truth is, capable players quickly found ways to counter even the first LRM buff... Others assumed the proverbial "sky is falling" stance and spammed the forums accordingly... That said, and I think it fairly obvious... The Higher the Elo the player, the less the LRMs were an issue... which honestly, stands to reason.

I think the immediate response by the community regarding the LRM was two fold... a.) It demonstrated the number of new(ish) players and their inability to deviate from a set play-style. and b.) How forum hysteria is contagious and how easy it is to sway public opinion with enough issued conviction.

This is not true, and merely an example of one touting his ego, and what an ego it is.

If your idea of capability is limitation to only certain parts of the maps, where a majority are uninhabitable, then you sir have to rethink your idea of skill.

Caustic, for example, is fought from two sides of the Caldera. LRMs reach the other side easily. No cover can fix this.

And this is the only REAL argument though, isn't it? "Cover"... Cover means limitation. Cover is only offered in some maps in abundance, and others scarcely. This locks the game into Long range battles only. Then there is the other threat of Mediums with TAG+JJ+LRM using them as poptart mechs for close range fights. Yes, 180m is close range.

To all who think cover is the answer that was never recognized before you egotists mentioned it; cover is used in all games. Cover is used when getting out of the rain running to your car! We know what cover is, but cover camps only suit certain play styles, and not all of us agree that limitation to a playstyle is befitting of the intention of the game. That intention being dictated by the weapons and capable mechs on offer.

[Mystere]

Thorqemada, on 09 April 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

LRM would be quite well if it was not about superboating and almost unlimited ammo (plenty of ammo for the duration of a match).

Rearm costs at 100% rates will quickly put a stop to that for most people.