48 replies to this topic

[Zero Neutral]

Has there been any discussion about Arty/Air strike balance?

I only feel that it is kind of imbalanced that every mech on a 12 player team can have an arty strike available (if they equip one.) Other than that they are fine, imo. It's only when arty strikes happen one after another after another that they become a little imbalanced for the team who is not using them.

Should arty/air strikes be limited to light/med mechs? Just wondering, kbye.

[LawDawg]

Yes, There have been multiple discussions on the Arty/Airstrike modules.

The thing is they cost C-bills. 40k each. Not everyone will field them and only half that do are any good with em.
Only in 12 mans have I seen an entire team field Arty with a smattering of air strike.

Advice,
1. Kill zones - Dont get trapped in a kill zone, ie.. valley, entrance to Theta on Terra Therma...
2. Dont bunch up so you cant back up or get the hell out of dodge. Dont stack on your TMs. Red Smoke, Pretty..but bad. Comms. is good to have so if it gets dropped behind you and you cant see it a lance mate can let you know , and you can run FORWARD.
3. Stay the high ground so you can fall down and get away from it, If you have it you can drop it low, and they have no where to go.

Edited by SLDF LawDog, 08 April 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Damocles69]

Arty/Air are currently the most overpowered thing is this game.

They need to be adjusted in some way, be it a damage nerf, removal of RNG heat shot, or tied into a command control console.

AC 40s raining from the sky with unlimited range is dumb

[Joseph Mallan]

Damocles69, on 08 April 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Arty/Air are currently the most overpowered thing is this game.

They need to be adjusted in some way, be it a damage nerf, removal of RNG heat shot, or tied into a command control console.

AC 40s raining from the sky with unlimited range is dumb

Have you seen the TT rules for Nukes???

[Khobai]

My suggestion to balance artillery/airstrikes is pretty simple.

Reduce the base damage back down to 20. So if you just take an artillery it only does 20 damage.

Make the artillery accuracy module double the damage of artillery. So if you take both the artillery and artillery accuracy module it does 40 damage again, but takes up two modules slots.

[FupDup]

STEEL REHN.

[LawDawg]

Damocles69, on 08 April 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Arty/Air are currently the most overpowered thing is this game.

They need to be adjusted in some way, be it a damage nerf, removal of RNG heat shot, or tied into a command control console.

AC 40s raining from the sky with unlimited range is dumb

I Use Imp. Arty and Imp. AirStrike on my Spider 24/7.......................NEVER once have I got this mystical unicorn or a head shot your talking about. Not saying it dont happen, Just not seeing it.

On the second note, Ive had a CR@P load of arty and air come in on me and NEVER once be GIBBED, insta killed, or head shotted by either.

Now does it happen? Oh im sure it does. But when does happen once, maybe twice..........you were unlucky.......end of discussion. Suck it up cupcake.........move on. ARTY/AIR is in a GOOD PLACE. JUST LIKE LRM, when you die from them (which you'll complain about next, so ill stop you.).

Adapt/Overcome............here is a straw............so you can suck it up

Edited by SLDF LawDog, 08 April 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[Roughneck45]

SLDF LawDog, on 08 April 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

I Use Imp. Arty and Imp. AirStrike on my Spider 24/7.......................NEVER once have I got this mystical unicorn or a head shot your talking about. Not saying it dont happen, Just not seeing it.

On the second note, Ive had a CR@P load of arty and air come in on me and NEVER once be GIBBED, insta killed, or head shotted by either.

Now does it happen? Oh im sure it does. But when does happen once, maybe twice..........you were unlucky.......end of discussion. Suck it up cupcake.........move on. ARTY/AIR is in a GOOD PLACE. JUST LIKE LRM, when you die from them (which you'll complain about next, so ill stop you.).

Adapt/Overcome............here is a straw............so you can suck it up

I see it once a week, at least.

I am not a fan of AC40's raining from the sky.

A better method would be to turn them into area denial tools. Decrease the damage per shell, increase the numbers of shells and the duration of the strike. Arty could continue to rain, Air could loop back and make another pass.

Not that PGI will change them though. Playerbase is split on the balance of these and they have bigger fish to fry.

Edited by Roughneck45, 08 April 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[wintersborn]

A "OP" weapon as it is called, that consumes CB's or Cash?

Its called a reason to grind or pay money and if it wasn't "OP" people would not spend.

If you ever played in a tourney you know why it was almost a must have for those who feel the need to be at he top.

[Mechteric]

I only think they can be used a bit too often, but they should be no less powerful. 20-30 seconds team cooldown for both air and arty would make sense.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 08 April 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

My suggestion to balance artillery/airstrikes is pretty simple.

Reduce the base damage back down to 20. So if you just take an artillery it only does 20 damage.

Make the artillery accuracy module double the damage of artillery. So if you take both the artillery and artillery accuracy module it does 40 damage again, but takes up two modules slots.

And as a counterpoint, I like artillery as it is right now. I like that it hurts badly when you are hit, and has a chance to kill you outright. That's what they're supposed to do ever since they have been invented by this warlike species called "Humanity".

Joseph Mallan, on 08 April 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Have you seen the TT rules for Nukes???

And every time the subject of artillery and air strike "balance" is brought up, I will keep on showing this video:



See what happens 17 seconds after. That's a 50-ton Centurion tank.

[LawDawg]

This is the Design, and it does it well IMHO.........

Edited by SLDF LawDog, 08 April 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[Mystere]

SLDF LawDog, on 08 April 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

This is the Design, and it does it well IMHO.........

Well, to be fair, MWO's artillery shells impact at a faster rate. As such, maybe PGI can slow it down a bit ... but keep everything else -- especially damage -- the same. I have this funny feeling the psychological effects will be even better.

<maniacal >

[Jman5]

I think the damage is fine and I like the concept of what air/arty does for the game. It punishes slow mechs that stand around. It helps break up defensible positions and encourages mobility over trench warfare and hill humping.

That said, I think there are several ways to nerf air/arty without ruining it.

1. Restrict consumables to 1 slot per mech. Not only does this reduce the overall number of strikes, but it gives players an opportunity to use the weapon modules without fear of sacrificing damage numbers.

2. Increase the global cooldown. Cooldown starts the moment the smoke is laid. The cooldown should be 5-10 seconds longer to compensate. It also reduces the multi-strike barrages where the strikes just seem to come in one after another before you can clear out.

3. Make strike damage to cockpits a fraction of what they are. PGI did this to LRMs because people were getting headshotted too easily. Strikes seem to be more or less effective at headshotting depending on the mech. It doesn't happen very often, so let's just do away with it so people don't get screwed by RNG headshots. It's not fun gameplay.

4. The smoke canister placement should have an actual projectile shoot out of the mech. This is critical in giving people a chance to spot artillery when someone aims it slightly behind you. Having the smoke suddenly appear out of nowhere right behind you is imbalanced IMO.

Edited by Jman5, 08 April 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[tayhimself]

PSA to the geniuses posting real life examples. This is a "gameplay balance" sub-forum for a Mechwarrior game with humanoid robots from the year 3050.

[Deathlike]

Jman5, on 08 April 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I think the damage is fine and I like the concept of what air/arty does for the game. It punishes slow mechs that stand around. It helps break up defensible positions and encourages mobility over trench warfare and hill humping.

That said, I think there are several ways to nerf air/arty without ruining it.

1. Restrict consumables to 1 slot per mech. Not only does this reduce the overall number of strikes, but it gives players an opportunity to use the weapon modules without fear of sacrificing damage numbers.

2. Increase the global cooldown. Cooldown starts the moment the smoke is laid. The cooldown should be 5-10 seconds longer to compensate. It also reduces the multi-strike barrages where the strikes just seem to come in one after another before you can clear out.

3. Make strike damage to cockpits a fraction of what they are. PGI did this to LRMs because people were getting headshotted too easily. Strikes seem to be more or less effective at headshotting depending on the mech. It doesn't happen very often, so let's just do away with it so people don't get screwed by RNG headshots. It's not fun gameplay.

4. The smoke canister placement should have an actual projectile shoot out of the mech. This is critical in giving people a chance to spot artillery when someone aims it slightly behind you. Having the smoke suddenly appear out of nowhere right behind you is imbalanced IMO.

Now you're making me regret selling the HBK-4SP.

[Mazzyplz]

limit airstrike to meds and heavies, assaults or lights shouldnt be able to use em.

[Mystere]

Jman5, on 08 April 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I think the damage is fine and I like the concept of what air/arty does for the game. It punishes slow mechs that stand around. It helps break up defensible positions and encourages mobility over trench warfare and hill humping.

That said, I think there are several ways to nerf air/arty without ruining it.

1. Restrict consumables to 1 slot per mech. Not only does this reduce the overall number of strikes, but it gives players an opportunity to use the weapon modules without fear of sacrificing damage numbers.

2. Increase the global cooldown. Cooldown starts the moment the smoke is laid. The cooldown should be 5-10 seconds longer to compensate. It also reduces the multi-strike barrages where the strikes just seem to come in one after another before you can clear out.

3. Make strike damage to cockpits a fraction of what they are. PGI did this to LRMs because people were getting headshotted too easily. Strikes seem to be more or less effective at headshotting depending on the mech. It doesn't happen very often, so let's just do away with it so people don't get screwed by RNG headshots. It's not fun gameplay.

4. The smoke canister placement should have an actual projectile shoot out of the mech. This is critical in giving people a chance to spot artillery when someone aims it slightly behind you. Having the smoke suddenly appear out of nowhere right behind you is imbalanced IMO.

1. I would rather have new consumables that can be just as attractive as artillery:

• smoke rounds - for cover, for blinding the enemy
  
• airbursts - increased chance of damage on upper half of mech
  
• mines/cluster bombs - increased chance of damage on lower have of mech, area denial
  
• sticky incendiaries - massive heat induced on enemy

Nerfs need not always be the soluion. New toys/doggies are better in my book.


2. No comment until I actually see it.

3. Damage reduction on head?



4. I'd rather replace smoke with TAG. At least the enemy needs to get closer and have to "paint" the target for some time.

Edited by Mystere, 08 April 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[LawDawg]

tayhimself, on 08 April 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

PSA to the geniuses posting real life examples. This is a "gameplay balance" sub-forum for a Mechwarrior game with humanoid robots from the year 3050.

UH OH, Someone mad.............Can we get a "Kitty" Meme for him please.

What we are trying to say there twittle dee, is ARTY is and does strike that hard and FAST when called for "EFFECT" So in 3050 as YOU say, it should and WOULD be even MORE violent. Your "Righteousness" Just flew out the out the broken window.

<EDIT> STOP NERFING STUFFFFFFFF]

Edited by SLDF LawDog, 08 April 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[Mystere]

tayhimself, on 08 April 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

PSA to the geniuses posting real life examples. This is a "gameplay balance" sub-forum for a Mechwarrior game with humanoid robots from the year 3050.

Why? Do you think the nature of artillery will change in 3050, and by "change" I mean "get weaker"? Frankly, I expect them to be even more dangerous a thousand years from now.

Ballista << Rock-hurling Catapult << Napoleonic 12-pounder << M107

Also, I will just quote myself:

Mystere, on 08 April 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

As someone who's been playing solo since closed beta, I am really astounded by many of my fellow puggers and their endless calls for "balance" and "fairness" in a game set in a dystopian universe waging brutal warfare that has slaughtered billions via giant walking machines of death.

Edited by Mystere, 08 April 2014 - 12:29 PM.