3 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

First, what should stay the same:

Mechs and gear(e.g. NARC and TAG used within the sphere) inside of an unfriendly ECM bubble should not be able to transmit targets back to friendlies. You cannot report targeting and you don't show up on friendly maps.

Second, What to change:

ECM no longer provides blanket invisibility to the mech and those within a friendly bubble. Instead, those within the bubble are harder to spot. What this means is that it takes more time before the magic dorito appears(significantly more so for the mech with ECM, IMO, but that isn't a must). What this also means is that, once targeted, it also takes longer to gather information(mech health, loadouts) and that it takes longer to gain target locks. Each of these things are counter-able via modules and equipment(such as BAP and TAG).

Lock on missiles, such as LRM's and SSRM's, will lose their lock and enter dumb flight while within an unfriendly ECM bubble. While it does run against my justification for these mechanics, TAG should maintain it's current ability to see through the bubble and allow mechs that are 'TAG'ed' to be targeted with guided missiles, due to maintaining the usefulness of the TAG.
As an alternative, the ECM bubble could act as more of an anti-Artemis on missile spreads so that A-missiles act as regular missiles and regular missiles act worse.

BAP, with it's new found ability to counter a large portion of the ECM's ability(by providing faster targeting, faster lockon, and faster detection) will no longer be a hard-counter to the ECM(aka knock it out).

This will put the ECM more in line with it's counter-communication functionality while chopping off systems that were 'added' to it, such as those of the Angel ECM and stealth armor. This will also help counter the mass blanket of nothingness by allowing mechs to spot and target groups within an ECM bubble while still providing legitimate benefits to both the equipped mechs and their friendlies within range.

[Koniving]

So. On what to change... Here's my understanding (and any notes or mods as I go through 'em).

Your change is Mech isn't invisible, just slower to spot (basically lore) with target information, stats, equipment, etc. right down to the player's name is denied to the spotting player. It's simply a targetable square. (Essentially lore.) Basically you're removing MWO's ECM includement of Stealth Armor traits (a good thing as stealth armor is the same as regular armor but consumes 12 fixed non-dynamic slots, 2 in each leg, 2 in each arm, 2 in each side torso). Definitely going with that.

The next paragraph, lock on weapons such as LRMs and Streaks (...you're quoting Angel ECM here btw). Slight mods here. Guardian only impairs LRMs. Angel ECM makes Streaks into dumbfire rockets (we need a reason for MWO to actually make it aside from 'it counts as two ECMs in counter-ECM checks'). But that isn't realistic since PGI isn't willing to separate LRM and Streak lockon systems despite how desperately it needs to.

Far as Tag, it actually remains partially unchanged from what it does now. Inside an ECM bubble it's worthless to anyone but yourself. Outside, it reduces the lock on time. The only change is that it would only have to 'reveal' said ECM mech if said ECM mech is invisible due to sporting Stealth Armor.

I believe that ECM counters Artemis missile flight already in MWO, but it doesn't (far as I know) remove Artemis's accelerated lockon time. At range, ECM has no actual effect on LRMs aside from slowing down lock-on (lore -- by the time an LRM is close enough to be effected on its own, it's already hit the target).

I can agree with BAP being a soft counter. It was never a hard counter (as ECM shuts bap down in source materials, actually) outside of MWO. (One thing to note that probably won't ever get put into MWO... is that targets being jammed actually didn't know they were being jammed except for BAP-equipped mechs. Only a BAP-equipped mech would know it is being jammed.)

And for the last paragraph, I can agree there. After all, the only way to be 'invisible' is with Stealth Armor equipped which will severely 'un-minmax' the light builds and leave the Atlas deciding between invisibility or fight-worthy weapons. Meanwhile those in its field can't be invisible, just have their stats, weapons, equipment, health, and identities hidden behind 'just a box.'

Edited by Koniving, 08 April 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[Foxfire]

I haven't noticed any effect on Artemis, as both a Raven 3L pilot and a Light Pilot that uses ASRM's. Then again, that could very well be because of the ranges that I tend to fight ECM mechs at so it could be 100% pure perception.

[Foxfire]

I think that it would be a good thing to have a nice conversation about ECM, devoid of kneejerk reactions. ECM and the Raven were the two things that I really waited for in this game since the days of early closed beta.. and I don't think that the current ECM is acceptable.. but I do think that we can have a constructive conversation to refine an ECM system that is useful yet not overpowered.