15 replies to this topic

[Hex Pallett]

Consider this an organized direct response to this post. There're many reasons why a Light would choose not to cap in a Conquest match. Note that I'm definitely not suggesting that Light 'mechs should *never* cap in a conquest game. It's just that in many cases there're priorities.


1. Enemy number/chassis is unknown.

When my whole team has about two Light 'mechs, I'm gonna think twice about rushing Theta. I don't know how many Lights the other side have, nor do I know how many of those are hunter-killers like Jenner 7D or Commando 2D. Maybe they have one of those evil Kintaros with five SSRMs! Why should I risk my neck for some futile effort? In those cases, I'm gonna just hit the nearest *flag* possible, then either take Theta if they're not watching, or flank far to either take their home flag or harass their rear.

Which also leads to the next reason:


2. My 'mech/loadout.

I put most Light builds into three major categories: Backstabber that carries a large amount of smaller energy weapons, Long-range Supporter that builds around a single large energy weapon, and Hunter-Killer who carries at least two SSRMs. The former two categories, especially the Long-range one, usually suffers greatly at close-range Light brawling. My Spider 5D with an ERPPC or my Locust with an ERLL would be way more useful if I stay not far from my lance to distract enemy foremen. Also, why would I go for their base, when my Jenner 7F or my Firestarter could take out the side torso of a Medium with one single Alpha from the rear?


3. Map

There are certain maps that are just not good for early capping. A prime example would be Gamma on Alpine. It is almost guaranteed that whichever side you spawn on, you're gonna make yourself more useful if you go for Sigma. You have a higher chance of spotting enemy movements, or finding someone busy shooting guns and leaving his/her butt exposed. Besides, it's gonna take way too long to take either side to get back to battle, during which your teammates may have already been mowed down by concentrated enemy fire. There're certain flags on other maps that are bad for Light rushes too. Capping Theta on Forest Colony takes an ECM and some serious steel balls, and Kappa on Caustic leaves little to no cover against LRMpocalypse. Not mentioning Theta on Therma where you have no f**king idea what's gonna happen next.


That's all I can think of for now. Still, capping is one of the major role for any Light, especially during late game. Knowing what to do when require some serious situation awareness.

Edited by Helmstif, 09 April 2014 - 04:05 AM.

[That Dawg]

Lights, mediums, heavies and assaults will not (typically) make capping a priority 'cause CAPPING DONT PAY!

When the overlords at MWO realize this and implement an income for parking your A$$ on cap and turning it blue while risking death, zero damage (there fore no pay) we'll begin to see "conquest" become.........conquest
IF they were to create a mechanism to receive credits and xp while sitting equal to causing damage, then you'll see conquest become capture the flag, not a secondary "oh heck, look, we've killed almost all of them but we're behind 300 points..gosh, what should we do?"

[Lockgor]

I doubt conquest will ever consistantly become conquest-like until they use some sort of respawn mechanic for it. The maps are too small, the mechs too few and too valuable to victory. A team really throws the dice on a conquest win; even if a team conquers the most points, the odds of losing can still be high. Winning the fire-fight has more consistant results.

[Magna Canus]

My addition would be the following situation;
Team A has 3+ lights that go cap. Team B decides to focus on killing Team A.
While Team A's lights are off capping their firepower is missed in the heated battle and Team A gets destroyed, leaving only the lights left.
Team B spreads out in pairs or in 2 teams and caps depending on whether the lights are wolf packing or out solo.

I have seen this happen so often that as a light it is a serious consideration to make whether or not to cap first or fight first.

[LiGhtningFF13]

It'a always about communication, means planning directions and focusing fire!

[jper4]

if i'm the only light or one of two or so i may grab the nearest point if it's close or just keep an eye on it to see if/when the other side shows up and how many lights they bring. cause if it's just me and they have 2 or 3 then i'm going back to the group and try to shoot enough stuff so we can turn the numbers and pick off the lights with less of their big guns shooting at us.

epsi and kappa on terra are certain death if you pick the cap the other side decides to double lance. kappa on tourmaline tends to run in a similar manner. inevitably whichever way i go that's the one the double lance goes to. gamma on alpine changes color once based on which lance has more firepower when they arrive there. whoever gets that cap will 95% of the time have it the rest of the match since it's so isolated.

on small maps the only real cap move after each team gets the one closest to it is to try and backdoor the other team's original cap while everyone fights for the theta (usually), otherwise you're better off staying in the fight and clean up caps after you get numbers on your side since the maps are too small to allow any lone mech to turn the point from full red to slightly blue without someone else showing up to shoot at you.

terra though is one map you should try to keep capping after the initial kappa/epsi brawls are settled- enough twists,turns and looping paths that a light can stall to victory on points even at bad odds. alpine used to be but not anymore. tourmaline is possible with only kappa/theta (to a lesser extent epsi) being in firing range from both ends of the brawls.crimson is a bit more cap friendly with backdoors to gamma (saddle) and sigma(behind the island route) but kappa/epsi is where most of the fight ends up so seldom does one side get far ahead of the other. rest of the maps are too small to dedicate yourself to capping exclusively though.

[mogs01gt]

ThatDawg, on 09 April 2014 - 04:10 AM, said:

Lights, mediums, heavies and assaults will not (typically) make capping a priority 'cause CAPPING DONT PAY!

When the overlords at MWO realize this and implement an income for parking your A$$ on cap and turning it blue while risking death, zero damage (there fore no pay) we'll begin to see "conquest" become.........conquest
IF they were to create a mechanism to receive credits and xp while sitting equal to causing damage, then you'll see conquest become capture the flag, not a secondary "oh heck, look, we've killed almost all of them but we're behind 300 points..gosh, what should we do?"

not pay? winning is worth 25k cbills. what are you talking about?

[That Dawg]

mogs01gt, on 09 April 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

not pay? winning is worth 25k cbills. what are you talking about?

I'm talking about if you spend an entire battle capping, you aren't rewarded with cbills, or experience if you would have spent that same time taking pot shots, trying to damage or kill the enemy.
IF they ever implement a way to give xp and credits for sitting on the cap and turning it blue, you'll see a real conquest/capture the flag battle.......till then, too many will worry more about killing than capping.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

5000-10000 C-bill reward for capping and decapping would be nice.

[Ovion]

You currently get 50c-bills per resource point earned, while you still get the same amount per point of damage earned.
Now, if you reduced the amount for damage from 21 to 11 per point in Conquest, but made it so you get say, 20 C-Bills per point of cap (both bring enemies down to 0, and bring yours up), and a 'bonus' each time you're sat on a point when it hits max of say, 1000, that would be a LOT more incentive for people to actually cap.

It'd also specifically reward those of us who DO cap, and win games for people, yet get 50k or less for our trouble, because we did little damage.

Edited by Ovion, 13 April 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Zeede]

Simple. Make it so that wiping out an enemy team doesn't end the match. Make it a win on resources only.

[Whoops]

Tanar, on 09 April 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

inevitably whichever way i go that's the one the double lance goes to.

If I ever get a high enough Elo to drop on your team...I'm going the other way.

[ImperialKnight]

There's no one simple answer for all situations. What if you had a company of 12 lights. You're almost guaranteed to be out-tonned.

It's also about HOW to cap. Too many people stay on the cap for too long when just a sliver-cap is required. i.e. Alpine Gamma. If the light lance spawns near Gamma, go in fast, sliver cap and then reinforce friendlies.

[White Bear 84]

Yeah, with the turrets in game now, capping in conquest is pretty much a non issue unless the enemy team is decimated and the team would rather cap than hunt down that last annoying shut down light mech...

[Not A Real RAbbi]

White Bear 84, on 13 April 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

Yeah, with the turrets in game now, capping in conquest is pretty much a non issue unless the enemy team is decimated and the team would rather cap than hunt down that last annoying shut down light mech...

Assault, you mean?

I've played two Assault matches so far (just dove back in to MWO this past week, and not heavily), and both times the enemy managed to get the BASE UNDER ATTACK message up for my team. It appears that this happens whenever one or more turrets goes firing on (or taking fire from) an enemy?

Anyhow, Conquest...

For my part, I almost always take a light with a FAST build, and the capture accelerator and UAV modules. The former is a no-brainer, the latter is for my paranoia. IF I have limited visibility around the resource point as I'm capping it, I can pop the UAV to give me some heads-up when the noose starts to tighten around me. AND, if it manages to go unnoticed, I might get lucky and earn a few extra C-Bills for it (either C-ECM, or spotting if a friendly fires LRMs at the incoming baddo).

Conquest in a Steiner recon lance is silly. I've always felt that this is the one game mode where a Locust can shine. Speed means an advantage in getting between resource points. A team of 3 fast LCTs with accelerators can run the table pretty quickly, bounding from point to point.

But the OP has a good point, too. It's not ALWAYS the best play for light mechs to cap while everyone else fights. Sometimes, you've got to defy convention and dare to win.

[Fut]

Lockgor, on 09 April 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

I doubt conquest will ever consistantly become conquest-like until they use some sort of respawn mechanic for it. The maps are too small, the mechs too few and too valuable to victory. A team really throws the dice on a conquest win; even if a team conquers the most points, the odds of losing can still be high. Winning the fire-fight has more consistant results.

Please no.
According to the "Game" page on mwomercs.com, MWO is a tactical Battlemech Simulation. Respawns would take the game a big step in the wrong direction.

Conquest will feel like conquest when people stop being so greedy and fight for more than just the Cbills.
Pretend that Conquest is a battle for a planet, winning is the most important thing.