11 replies to this topic

[Murzao]

Step 1: random drop tonnage -> rand(7)*25+400 .........each game would have a different drop weight from 400, 425, 450 all the way up to 800 a side. Get random map.

Step 2: fill both teams with elo equal players up to said weight limit. Want to bring an Atlas? Be prepared to get swarmed by 3 Jenners or 5 Locusts or 2 Centurions. No more 12v12....but 10v16 (10 team obviously much heavier than the 16 person team). 400 ton limit? 6v8, 800 ton limit? 13v18. 3 Awesomes vs 2 Atlai, 3 Dragons vs 2 Phracts....and so on.

Believe you me nobody would take an assault or a heavy mech if it meant the other side had twice as many light/medium pilots....but you could, you'd just get rolled:)

Balance fixed.

Also: Clan lances already ingrained in this system of differing lance structure.

Done.

Yes I understand said Atlas/Victor poptart/boomjagers who actually think they're good at this game (and aren't) wouldn't like the idea of getting steamrolled by an army of mediums (and they would) but that is classic battletech.

Edited by Murzao, 09 April 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I have disagreed with this type of suggestion before...

Not cause of the the 5 Lights v one assault( the chance to see how many Lights I can kill before dying is game enough for me), just because Its a poor sport suggestion.

[Trauglodyte]

Murzao, on 09 April 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Step 1: random drop tonnage -> rand(7)*25+400 .........each game would have a different drop weight from 400, 425, 450 all the way up to 800 a side. Get random map.

Step 2: fill both teams with elo equal players up to said weight limit. Want to bring an Atlas? Be prepared to get swarmed by 3 Jenners or 5 Locusts or 2 Centurions. No more 12v12....but 10v16 (10 team obviously much heavier than the 16 person team). 400 ton limit? 6v8, 800 ton limit? 13v18. 3 Awesomes vs 2 Atlai, 3 Dragons vs 2 Phracts....and so on.

Believe you me nobody would take an assault or a heavy mech if it meant the other side had twice as many light/medium pilots....but you could, you'd just get rolled:)

Balance fixed.

Also: Clan lances already ingrained in this system of differing lance structure.

Done.

It isn't necessarily a horrible idea. But rather, it is currently going against what they want to game to be and that is an environment available to all weight classes. If you restrict the weight too much, you end up forcing everyone into Locusts, Cicadas, Dragons/Quickdraws, and Victors/Awesome. If you put to much weight in, you either end up not being able to use it all or you end up with nothing but Ravens/Firestarters/Jenners, Shawks/Griffins/Wolvies, Orions, and Atlases. In both cases, you're cutting out a LOT of mechs inbetween or you're putting one team at the risk of dropping too light.

What really needs to happen is this:

• Add two additional drop platforms to the 3/3/3/3 so that you've got an extremely Light drop, the current, and an extremely Heavy drop. The first would have many more Lights and Mediums at the expense of the Heavies and Assaults while the last would have more Heavies and Assaults as the expense of the Lights and Mediums. You could go with 4/5/2/1 for the first and maybe 2/3/4/3. The current 3/3/3/3 would not be weight restricted while the 4/5/2/1 and 2/3/4/3 would both have caps.
  
• Implement multi-weight class queueing to open up the MM and ELO buckets. I've currently got 20 mechs of which 17 are fully efficienced (I'm making that a word). Why am I being restricted to just one mech when I've got 19 others that I could use? If we've got as small a player base as many think, why not help that by allowing people to artificially expand the number of variables? When you group up, instead of picking a mech, you'd pick a weight class and then queue up. Once the game connects, you pick the mech that you want within that weight class and you go. If you're dropping solo, you pick from the 4 weight classes that you want to play and queue and then everything else works like above.

We don't need a convoluted system. What we need is something that makes the game different beyond just the maps and lacking game modes.

[Murzao]

Obviously assault/heavy mechs aren't gonna like it cuz they basically want to guard their weapon loadout and a slow zerg game like it's their 'precious'.

But it is the most balanced system out there because 60 tonners are useful, 20 tonners are useful. 80 tonners are very useful.

It gets back to fundamental battletech where lights and mediums are the most common, and assaults a rare sight on the field of battle. And it doesn't pigeonhole anyone into being anything they don't want to be.

@Traug I don't know where you're getting your math from but the lighter team bringing said 60 tonners would have an extra player or three to balance out weight. You can drop heavy if you want but you'll be outnumbered. Some people can handle that aka 2 heaviers vs 3 lighter mechs. There is no too light.........you could have 4 Atlai vs 20 Locusts lol. Extreme example would never happen in the real world. But it would be a fun 1/10000 chance game mode hah.

Most matches will be of the 12v11, 13v12, 9v8 on 400 weight, and so on....weight matching would always be paramount so nobody should be whining about that if you picked heavier mechs (aka your side was Phracts/Atlai) obviously the other sde will have more players than you (one more Dragon/Awesome or Medium/Light mech...or more than one..... to balance tonnage)

Random weight drops, varying team sizes but equal weight, random map/mode=win.

Edited by Murzao, 09 April 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

If you're talking unbalanced launch numbers, then you're pretty much done cause that isn't ever going to happen. PGI talked about 12 v 10 when the clans released and that got shot down quick.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Plus you'd get groups sync dropping in 55 tonners (with a few lights thrown in) to mop up the lighter end PUGs.

[Murzao]

If this game launches clans without unbalanced teams aka 10 clanners vs 12 IS, this game is pretty much done as clan mechs are superior in every way. Medium clan mech with an 84 pinpoint alpha yea that's balanced. Balancing clan weapons vs IS weapons with even teams is gonna be horribad. These guys can't even get SRMs right or PPC for 2 year fest.

Unbalanced teams (yet weight neutral) is the ONLY solution to every problem.

@Rhihn premades of all poptart ppc+ac5 warriors or lrmboats or stalkerppc fests already do that.......what's your point? But with weight balancing there would be at least even odds (no 100+ weight tonnage discrepency of some kurita steiner wannabe lance of 4 atlai). And uuh I can and do roll in a 50 ton premade and roll higher weight teams right now so nothing new really lol. Premades will always roll pugs.

Edited by Murzao, 09 April 2014 - 12:36 PM.

[Bobzilla]

This idea would totally be doable, if they didn't attempt to balance all weight classes. They want assaults to equal lights but for your suggestion to work an atlas would have to be able to take on 2 hunchbacks or 3 ravens or easily be able to beat any heavy 1v1. They would have to seriously nerf lighter mechs or beef up heavier mechs otherwise there would be absoultly be no reason to not fill a team with as many light mechs as possible. 5 locusts with 5 medium lasers shooting once each would be 125dmg, thats way better than any single atlas could do.

[Joseph Mallan]

Murzao, on 09 April 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Random weight drops, varying team sizes but equal weight, random map/mode=win.

Where's the challenge is I have to face a even weighted team every drop? If I am going to face the 4^th Wolf Assault Guards. I expect them to have more than 3 Assault Omnis!

[Bilbo]

Murzao, on 09 April 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Obviously assault/heavy mechs aren't gonna like it cuz they basically want to guard their weapon loadout and a slow zerg game like it's their 'precious'.

But it is the most balanced system out there because 60 tonners are useful, 20 tonners are useful. 80 tonners are very useful.

Your system wouldn't affect my choice of mechs in the slightest. I'm quite used to having to deal with swarms of lights and mediums anyway.

[Sandpit]

Really want to fix MM?

New Players have their own queue

Groups are dropped into matches against opponents that match up against the group's highest elo (IE the player with the highest Elo is used for MM instead of averaging everyone's Elo)

Break up CW into mission types:
Recon (First Mission to assault a planet): limited to mechs of certain weight classes and speeds
Beach Head (actual assault on the planet): no assaults
Attack Mission 1 (just named for an example): no heavies or assaults
Attack Mission 2 (see above for name): no assaults
Capitol Assault: No restrictions on weight

Each planet has 100% ownership
Recon = 1-2% gained for the winning side
Beach head = 3-5%
Attack 1 = 6-8%
Attack 2 = 6-8%
Capitol Assault = 9-12%

You could easily add objectives to diversify games. Recon requires a sensor sweep for 30 seconds from a mech equipped with certain electronics
Beach head = defending your position to establish that beachhead (king of the hill style maybe?)
Attack 1 = attacking an enemy position
Attack 2 = attacking multiple positions
Capitol = taking control and holding an enemy position for xx time

It's not hard really. These types of things have been done in the past and have worked well for various leagues and such I've played in. It seems like PGI could care less about depth though and just wants the repetitive kill em all play style, rinse, repeat.

They've given no indication that "role warfare" and things of that nature are important any longer and have done everything they possibly can to set up the game where you just randomly drop with teams and fight in stand alone matches that have no connection to anything other than a map.

I SHOULD have probably figured this one out when I joined CB and a "team based thinking man's shooter" centered around those fabled pillars had zero rudimentary and industry standard tools like lobbies and voip.

[Sandpit]

Oh, I forgot to add:

You must own a certain % of the planet before launching mission types.
0-10% = recon only
11-20% = beachhead and recon
21-40% = attack 1 and 2
41100% = capitol assault

This is also an easy way to show ebb and flow of battles. If the defending team wins then they win that % back (or prevent the attacking team from gaining enough % to advance to the bigger missions) so even though you and your buddies might dominate it truly is a complete team effort because every member of your faction is able to participate.

It leads to cohesion. Even the dedicated solo players would have reasons to check with their unit's sub-forum to look at current strategic planets to attack, which ones to avoid, etc.

Obviously nobody MUST adhere to that but at least it would give more cohesion and teamwork going.

Of course that's assuming that somewhere along the lines PGI stops acting like teamwork is "op" in a team based game...