950 replies to this topic

[102_devill]

Quote

Well, there kinda is, because If they simply translated Clan mechs from TRO art or, god forbid, previous MW games, while it would satisfy nostalgic grognards, those mechs would literally look like piles of shit you mention - at least compared with current IS mechs.

MWO mechs have distinct visual look to them - there is simply no reason for them to throw it out the window and spoil the design line with iconic but poorly thought out designs from 80s.

And this is a poor 80s design for you?
Honestly, I don't care whether you think it looks nice or not, that's your subjective feeling.
But THAT (in the picture) is what is called a Timber Wolf. For the more imaginative audience it looks "spot on", for me it doesn't.

"Modernising" the look to a certain extent is ok, but comparing this and the PGI version you can plainly see that the outline of the mech is completely different. And at the very least they should have invented a look that would be of a different style compared to MWO IS tech.

In any case, this game suffers from much more serious problems than just looks of a mech, even if it is a mech that has been the flagship of the franchise for about 20 years now.

But I really do not understand why would someone want to change how MechWarrior looks like? If you want a different look, well you have Hawken, Titanfall etc. Why not respect the franchise that you bought, since it is what you intended to be the source for your customer base?

[Senior Knight Steele]

I became legitimately afraid to fight clan 'mechs for the very first time after seeing those screenshots. Before I was all like, "Bah, I'll kick those test-tube bred thugs' asses." No longer. Ah, who cares. BRING UM ON.

[Alik Kerensky]

Vyviel, on 11 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Why does the Timberwolf have two huge balls between its legs?

Maybe it should be renamed to the Gonadwolf

It should look closer to this.

I like this one too.

[ChallengerCC]

Vyviel, on 11 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Why does the Timberwolf have two huge balls between its legs?

Maybe it should be renamed to the Gonadwolf

It should look closer to this.

True it dont look agressive enougth like in the picture above. The Mad Cat looks ok but it could be better (more aggressive).
And the size is visualy to smal i dont know. Something is wrong.

[ssm]

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

And this is a poor 80s design for you?
Honestly, I don't care whether you think it looks nice or not, that's your subjective feeling.
But THAT (in the picture) is what is called a Timber Wolf. For the more imaginative audience it looks "spot on", for me it doesn't.

It is - and more importantly - it doesn't fit artwork style adopted in this game.

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

"Modernising" the look to a certain extent is ok, but comparing this and the PGI version you can plainly see that the outline of the mech is completely different. And at the very least they should have invented a look that would be of a different style compared to MWO IS tech.

So is the outline of MWO Atlas and this one:

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

In any case, this game suffers from much more serious problems than just looks of a mech, even if it is a mech that has been the flagship of the franchise for about 20 years now.

well, that flagship sometimes looks like this:

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

But I really do not understand why would someone want to change how MechWarrior looks like? If you want a different look, well you have Hawken, Titanfall etc. Why not respect the franchise that you bought, since it is what you intended to be the source for your customer base?

Mechs (even Mad Cats) looked different in every MW game. If you want them to look like MW3 or MW4, why not play MW3 or MW4 instead? Your personal preferences of how models of different mech should look like have nothing to do with respect of the franchise.

Edited by ssm, 11 April 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[Koniving]

KuroNyra, on 11 April 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Ho for Buck sake!

They actually made the birds leg on the artwork! See the little stuff on the back of the leg? Like the REAL Timber Wolf have?

It's non existent now!

The images are of the non-clan-package Timber Wolves . o.O;
Your bird legs are on the clan package ones.
Time to whip out the wallet?

Edited by Koniving, 11 April 2014 - 04:52 PM.

[102_devill]

@SSM,

Every rule has an exception and if you put upfront those exceptions that doesn't mean the rule is disproved.

Mad Cat has an established look which is more or less the same for at least 20 years of games and books.

There are many other mechs that do look funny (in their very few graphical representations or small scale figurines) and should be adapted, but I still do not see why you need to mess with Mad Cat with which people have grown to love the franchise.

And I will repeat again and again because you seem to "conveniently" disregard that: at the very least PGI should use a style different from IS mechs in their adaptations.

Quote

Mechs (even Mad Cats) looked different in every MW game. If you want them to look like MW3 or MW4, why not play MW3 or MW4 instead? Your personal preferences of how models of different mech should look like have nothing to do with respect of the franchise.

Because they are old games with very poor graphics and I've played them enough when they were new. So now when I come to play something that is called MechWarrior I want a new graphics environment, benefiting today's processing power, but at the same time I would like my good old MechWarrior story and stuff.

Edited by RokerSaMoravu, 11 April 2014 - 05:01 PM.

[ssm]

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

@SSM,

Every rule has an exception and if you put upfront those exceptions that doesn't mean the rule is disproved.

Mad Cat has an established look which is more or less the same for at least 20 years of games and books.

There are many other mechs that do look funny and should be adapted, but I still do not see why you need to mess with Mad Cat with which people have grown to love the franchise.

Mad Cat had hundreds of official renditions over the years - and MWO one is well within boundaries set by those works. There ain't such thing as The Mad Cat. Just personal preferences as to which one somebody considers best.

Same with every other BT mechs - Atlases, Catapults or Centurions, to name only a few.

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

And I will repeat again and again because you seem to "conveniently" disregard that: at the very least PGI should use a style different from IS mechs in their adaptations.

I didn't disregard it - it is completely irrelevant, because Clan Mechs even originally didn't have consistent visual style between themselves - just compare Executioner, Koshi, Timber Wolf and Summoner.

What different style would you consistently apply to designs so different?

Would you make Executioner sleek as a Mad Dog? Or apply basic principles of Thor's legs to a Dasher?

Edited by ssm, 11 April 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[Cimarb]

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

@SSM,

Every rule has an exception and if you put upfront those exceptions that doesn't mean the rule is disproved.

Mad Cat has an established look which is more or less the same for at least 20 years of games and books.

There are many other mechs that do look funny (in their very few graphical representations or small scale figurines) and should be adapted, but I still do not see why you need to mess with Mad Cat with which people have grown to love the franchise.

And I will repeat again and again because you seem to "conveniently" disregard that: at the very least PGI should use a style different from IS mechs in their adaptations.

The Clans, as you seem to "conveniently" disregard, are humans that descended from the same people that the IS did, and their mechs are advanced versions of the very same SLDF designs that the IS mechs are based off of. Quit trying to make them out like some War of the Worlds aliens.

summary: The MWO TimberWolf looks great. Learn to love it.

[102_devill]

Ok guys, I gave my opinion and you have yours and there is really nothing more to discuss. Cheers and enjoy your new mechs!

[Cimarb]

RokerSaMoravu, on 11 April 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Ok guys, I gave my opinion and you have yours and there is really nothing more to discuss. Cheers and enjoy your new mechs!

I will, thanks.

[Gwydion Ward]

BLACKFIRE, on 11 April 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

If Im not mistaken.. those BLOCK bits on modern tanks aren't what you seem to think they are. Russian and American tanks alike have the blocks on them, "reactive armor" Which mechwarrior ALSO has, is an explosive charge set off when shot to cause the incoming rounds to deflect by force? I think? If you want exact info google that stuff pretty cool tech. Also Lets put Slat armor on these mechs never know when we might get guys with RPGs shooting at us!

Actualy reactive armor works to pre-mature detonate the explosives in warheads like RPG's..

Normally an RPG detonates from the back, forward (the explosion in the back of teh warhead turns the metal at the front of the warhead into a 'piercing', white-hot liquid, killing glob.

Reactive armor causes the explosion to happen from front-to back... to basically attempt to blast the white-hot metal to go the oposite direction, or simply 'stall out' before it penetrates the armor.

[Morgoth62]

Is it just me or do the game developers have no idea of what the clan mechs looked like? Are they just rehashing frames and skins from the Inner Sphere mechs?

Come on guys, this looks NOTHING like a Mad Cat. The legs, arms, lower chasis, feet, upper arms, missile boxes and many other details are WAY OFF.

I paid good money, $240 US Dollars and for what? Nerfed weapons, crappy models and God only knows what else this company will mess up introducing the Clan mechs.

I am very frustrated with the whole mess and I say now, DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY BUYING THIS CRAP! If I knew then what I see now, I would never have dropped the cash. A VERY huge disappointment.

SHAME ON PIRANHA GAMES!

thomas

PS

There was a reason that the Clan mechs looked different from the Inner Sphere. Please don't make all the Clan mechs look like the come off a Inner Sphere assembly line. They are much more graceful in appearance and they were much more powerful than the Inner Sphere. If you want to make if fair, just make the matches 12 to 10 or 14 to 10. I would still pick Clan tech over Inner Sphere at 16 to 10! (notice that the Clan mech drops are divisible by 5, there is a reason for that.)

This is all giving me brain seizures. PGI, You had best UN"F" yourselves and get with the program. FASA put out MOUNTAINS of data and drawings and models of these Mechs and you can't get anything right except that they were BIG ROBOTS?

Come on, I know you guys are smarter than this. Or is it that you are trying to piss us all off?

thomas

Edited by Morgoth62, 11 April 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

quick cruddy mockup



alterations as follows

shins shorter and knee joints thinner, avoid one long slab for a leg

arm weapon pods lengthened

cockpit torso lenghtened, aviod sphere shape make more oval

arms thinner avoid one long box tube being too large compared to the torso area


edit: seeing the ice pictures it's definately the arms which are letting this design down for me, the girth is way over the top, there's hardly any rear torso overhang because of those arms and the weapon pods fro them are way too short by comparison.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 11 April 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[John Clavell]

I'm guessing leg length was more about balancing the original design ethic with the practicalities and realities of MechWarrior Onlines design. In this case making sure the arm pods were not lower than other heavy mechs. Either Way, I like the direction, though I feel the lower half of the mech could of taken more direct design cues from the TRO. The model has very heavy, thick, long legs. They are very boxy, are you worried about polycounts on lower end systems? Anyway, overall nice job.

[Koniving]

ssm, on 11 April 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Mechs (even Mad Cats) looked different in every MW game. If you want them to look like MW3 or MW4, why not play MW3 or MW4 instead? Your personal preferences of how models of different mech should look like have nothing to do with respect of the franchise.

What I've noticed is that the look so many people seem to be expecting is the look of MW2.

Allow me to remind people what it looked like and then show comparisons throughout.

Spoiler

Mechwarrior 2: original.

(That's why it's so damn skinny).

(Psst, just for fun...)

Spoiler

Ph30nix, on 11 April 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Also the Legs on the Timberwolf are VERY unique


see that spot circled (image taken from another source) while the image here isnt exactly how it is normally depicted that extra "nub" past the joint ISN'T just for show. It allows the Timberwolf a very unique Method of walking and standing.

It wasn't always that way, it happened because the 'extensions' (inspired by Ed 209 from Robocop) would clip through the mech and look atrocious, thus the redesign in the following image.

Mechwarrior 2 (expansions, Titanium Edition, PSX)



Mechwarrior 3


Mechwarrior 4

(Damn that's ugly as heck.)

MechAssault


Mechwarrior 4.


Solaris Assault Tech.


Mechwarrior Living Legends (they base their models off of the little tabletop figures).


MechCommander 2's Timber Wolf in the mechbay.


What the old school design's internals would look like.

The leg design here, while awesome, is actually a military fallacy. The actuator connected only at one side makes it easier to break than if it's gripping on both sides of the leg. It's a structural weakness.

Those internals again.

(Hardly realistic, is it? Looks like the armor is made out of paper.)

Seriously, this looks a bit silly. Assuming it fits one person, this makes it as tall as 3 buses stacked on top of each other. So those skinny limbs? You'd be lucky to fit inside one. And that's gonna hold everything you need to carry a 75 ton mech?


Someone's fan creation.

More such fan creations.

Someone else's fan creation.


An interesting Artist's impression.


Just for a mention. This is also the MadCat.


What we're got for concept art.


And the result.

Now that said, my overall favorite was Mechwarrior 3050. But truth be told, all the other mechs in there looked like gundams that couldn't fly.

Edited by Koniving, 11 April 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[ssm]

Morgoth62, on 11 April 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

(...)

There was a reason that the Clan mechs looked different from the Inner Sphere. Please don't make all the Clan mechs look like the come off a Inner Sphere assembly line. They are much more graceful in appearance and they were much more powerful than the Inner Sphere. If you want to make if fair, just make the matches 12 to 10 or 14 to 10. I would still pick Clan tech over Inner Sphere at 16 to 10! (notice that the Clan mech drops are divisible by 5, there is a reason for that.)

This is all giving me brain seizures. PGI, You had best UN"F" yourselves and get with the program. FASA put out MOUNTAINS of data and drawings and models of these Mechs and you can't get anything right except that they were BIG ROBOTS?

Come on, I know you guys are smarter than this. Or is it that you are trying to piss us all off?

thomas

Really?



Visually speaking, every sentence starting with "Clan Mechs are..." is fundamentally wrong, because even original 16 Omnis (not to mention designs that came after them) didn't follow any consistent design line.

Edited by ssm, 11 April 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[Cimarb]

ssm, on 11 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Really?



Visually speaking, every sentence starting with "Clan Mechs are..." is fundamentally wrong, because even original 16 Omnis (not to mention designs that came after them) didn't follow any consistent design line.

LOL, it's Gumby!

[Koniving]

UPDATE! Images fixed!

It's true. None of the Clan mechs followed an actual style, as different art groups made them. Mad Cat was a design being spread around similar to Marauder. Thing is FASA did own the Timber Wolf (mad cat) design, so when Harmony Gold licensed out FASA's design, FASA got ticked. FASA was doing the same thing with Harmony Gold's Marauder design. Don't know who did what first, but it created a heck of a flame war that the very name "Marauder" brings an army of 70 lawyers to your door.

This is why so many of the clan mechs are unique. In fact about 20% of them at least can't even twist their torsos in canon, due to the art sources they were taken from not having (or caring for) such a concept.
So if kept true to that, the Kitfox, Jenner II-C, Nova, and several others wouldn't even have torsos. The Nova and Jenner's legs connected to the shoulders. Depending on the version of the art, the Kitfox's legs could mount anywhere. There was one semi-official Nova art where the legs connect to the shoulders, and the arms connect to the pelvis. o.o; But no one liked it and it was quickly removed.

If it says anything... Depending on what art sources you use... you can get a whole different feel.

For example let's take a look at this official style.

Spoiler

This is an Atlas. Year 3050.

For comparison, Western Battletech.

Western Battletech -- Internal Schematics. Source: Battletech, 25 years of art and fiction.

(If all that is required to run a 100 ton mech, people expect that paper maché limbed Timber Wolf to function?)

This is a Hunchback 4G. Year 3050.




This is a Stalker.


Dragon.


Commando.

(Comparison!)
Head turned, original pic.

Commando in game (mine)


Spider.

Comparison!
To me this is a failure in proportion.

This one from the card game was much better done in proportions.

MWO art.

In game. (Me). Shots of ingame stuff by Lordred.


Thunderbolt.

Comparison.


Battlemaster.


Shadowhawk.


Wolverine.

Locust.

For fun, Western Locust.


The very first tabletop Locust.


The Griffin.

Scary, isn't it? All that is, in fact, 100% official art (so far as I know, as there are Japanese battletech digitized versions of the board game for certain older consoles and PC). Btw, that style of Battletech/mechwarrior, most mechs glide and only walk to climb slopes or tricky terrain. They're also commonly piloted by hot looking teenage to mid 20s anime chicks with brightly colored hair. O.o;

Edited by Koniving, 12 April 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[Firelizard]

Do you hear that shrill screaming sound? That is my wallet.