134 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Charons Little Helper, on 14 April 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

Well - it would allow you to invite random people to group with you easier.

Say you're playing a match - someone strikes you as a good player and they weren't an idiot in chat - so you invite them to join your group. Instant VOIP.

When we get lobbies everyone will have the ability to be a 12 man premade, without the hassle of finding players and replacing them when they leave.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tichorius Davion, on 12 April 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Squeaker: "U wot m8, fight me irl. your mum likes met"
You: "My Mother is dead so good luck with that kid"
Squeaker: "Get rekt'd kid" (Sounds like he's 12, you sound like an adult)
You: "...mute button"

Sad part is... I have had that conversation here on the forum!

[cSand]

As long as it comes with a toggle/mute, I'm happy

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

AntharPrime, on 12 April 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

In the latest NGNG podcast, Russ confirmed that the commo rose and VOIP is coming to MWO and by the sound of it, it looks like it is sooner rather than later.

Ahhh, yes. VoIP is finally coming. A standard in online gaming since 2005, and only about 1 year after initial "launch" are they announcing to be working on it!

I for one cannot wait to see how much a of a failure VoIP will finally be two years from now when finally makes it in game and its "working as intended"

[Fut]

cSand, on 14 April 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

As long as it comes with a toggle/mute, I'm happy

MmHmm... If PGI was smart, they'd have buttons to mute individual players on the 'TAB Screen'.
Easy-Peasy.

[cSand]

Fut, on 14 April 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

MmHmm... If PGI was smart, they'd have buttons to mute individual players on the 'TAB Screen'.
Easy-Peasy.

Definitely.

I already want to punch some players in the face enough as it is!!

[Dimento Graven]

AntharPrime, on 12 April 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

In the latest NGNG podcast, Russ confirmed that the commo rose and VOIP is coming to MWO and by the sound of it, it looks like it is sooner rather than later.

That's not what he said, he said, and I quote: "...seriously considering..." VOIP.

That's not a "Yes", that's not a time frame, that's a, "We're going to look at it and decide."

I realize you listen to something and your optimistic, wishful thinking, side of your brain interprets it first, BUT, with PGI you MUST, absolutely MUST, be very critical and interpret what they actually said, not what you wanted them to say.

One final edit, here's a link to a post in another thread where the actuals of what was said and meant on the subject are nailed down:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3293028

Joseph Mallan, on 14 April 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Sad part is... I have had that conversation here on the forum!

Seriously dude, your mom does like me.



Sorry couldn't resist.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 April 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Kyynele]

Seriously, VOIP does not help PUGs much, as everyone will never use it, no matter how you try to enforce it. It is waste of resources exactly because of that, premades are already using their own, and only a portion of PUGs would use it, generating small pseudo-premades within teams that don't play together as well as real premades. Trying to shift company commands to a channel where a major portion if not majority of your team will not be even aware of their existance is even worse than having stuff in the chat that's easy to miss and difficult to write into during the battle.

If it makes you happy to have a couple other lonely random players to talk to each match, it's perfectly fine and I can accept that it's a worthwhile feature for you to have, but the key to actually effective team play in a PUG is the Commo Rose and just generally enhanced HUD in the game.

Simply allowing the company/lance leaders to designate focus targets and bases/cap points by simply pointing at them and clicking a button, so that the objective is clearly displayed on everyone's screen (likely being disregarded by 75% of players still) - not as some small arrow on the compass but highlighted as a clear "THIS IS YOUR TARGET" - would already make the gap between premades and PUGs a lot narrower.

Edited by Kyynele, 14 April 2014 - 11:35 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Kyynele, on 14 April 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Seriously, VOIP does not help PUGs much, as everyone will never use it, no matter how you try to enforce it. It is waste of resources exactly because of that, premades are already using their own, and only a portion of PUGs would use it, generating small pseudo-premades within teams that don't play together as well as real premades. Trying to shift company commands to a channel where a major portion if not majority of your team will not be even aware of their existance is even worse than having stuff in the chat that's easy to miss and difficult to write into during the battle.

If it makes you happy to have a couple other lonely random players to talk to each match, it's perfectly fine and I can accept that it's a worthwhile feature for you to have, but the key to actually effective team play in a PUG is the Commo Rose and just generally enhanced HUD in the game.

Simply allowing the company/lance leaders to designate focus targets and bases/cap points by simply pointing at them and clicking a button, so that the objective is clearly displayed on everyone's screen (likely being disregarded by 75% of players still), not as some small arrow on the compass but highlighted as a clear "THIS IS YOUR TARGET" - would already make the gap between premades and PUGs a lot narrower.

Actually when I was originally arguing about VOIP the argument against using 3rd Party VOIP was that most pugs didn't want to have to install a VOIP solution, that most quality MMO FPS's had built in VOIP already, so no one should be required to install a 3rd party solution.

NOT that if it was there the pugs wouldn't use it anyway.

My thoughts are that the PUGs wouldn't have to "talk", but they could take advantage of those that did, and did so constructively towards winning the game by communicating enemy positions. Even if YOU never personally said a word, EVER, in the game, you would benefit by SOMEONE saying, "4 Atlas's behind the hill in C3".

As far as a commo-rose solution, again, it's a piss poor solution for an FPS game where movement and aiming are dependent on the very device you're required to communicate through.

That's part of the reason why the Commander Screen (press 'B') is so under utilized. Having to stop your piloting and aiming to go into a screen where you can't do either to issue a command is horrifically inefficient, especially in the heat of battle.

That plus the inability to scale the icons that pop up on the mini-map, blocking the close in view of mech positions (that whole minimap functionality needs to be expanded, desperately, but admittedly there's too many other game breaking issues that need to be addressed first).

Anyway, VOIP is the most efficient means of communication. Having it would help people act better as a team, as long as, there was a relatively painless means of muting someone (type in /mute [player name], or TAB-click MUTE next to a name, whatever) who was disruptive.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 April 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Boris The Spider]

Why wouldn’t it have a mute button, these have been standard since... forever. Its like saying “I would like a car, but it had damn well better have a hand brake! The real make or break from my point of view is, will it be structured? So that only lance members can talk to each other and only lance commanders can talk between lances, this for me is an absolute must.

Simple, uncluttered tried and tested VOIP solution, guy in your lance being a prat, one click mute, done, friendly lance being prats, resign squad lead. Done, again one click. I have better things to do with my time than act as a switchboard operator for 11 other players. I don't want or need to hear bravo lances scout and missile boats comm's. I don't want or need to hear alpha lance patting each other on the back each time they make a kill.

If its push to talk/voice activated talk to all the team, its getting switched off, no ifs no buts.

[Chronojam]

Boris The Spider, on 14 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

If its push to talk/voice activated talk to all the team, its getting switched off, no ifs no buts.

How very reasonable of you. What a great team player.

[Boris The Spider]

Sorry Chrono, I just happen to think that 12 people talking over each other is less than useless. It can work with a 12 man unit who are already properly structured, but once you start trying to use it with a random mix of people it just becomes a muddy mess. I know this from experience of playing 12 man VOIP pick up groups, it just doesn’t work the same as a structured solution. Think what happens when you go completley random and throw 3 people in there speaking a language the other 9 don't understand. If people are going to use it, it needs to benefit the team, not hinder it. It also needs to fit in with and compliment players existing VOIP solutions, not over-ride them. You may find this an unreasonable position, but I doubt I'm the only one with this view.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 14 April 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

it should be cool for pugs, but thank goodness i won't have to listen to any of them. if xbox live taught me anything it's that children and adults who act like children should not have voip

[KharnZor]

I'm amazed at the stupidity of people here sometimes. I know i shouldn't be but i am.

[Chronojam]

Boris The Spider, on 14 April 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry Chrono, I just happen to think that 12 people talking over each other is less than useless. It can work with a 12 man unit who are already properly structured, but once you start trying to use it with a random mix of people it just becomes a muddy mess. I know this from experience of playing 12 man VOIP pick up groups, it just doesn’t work the same as a structured solution. Think what happens when you go completley random and throw 3 people in there speaking a language the other 9 don't understand. If people are going to use it, it needs to benefit the team, not hinder it. It also needs to fit in with and compliment players existing VOIP solutions, not over-ride them. You may find this an unreasonable position, but I doubt I'm the only one with this view.

Maybe I just get lucky with my server selection, but I enjoy 24-player TF2 and do not often have too much trouble with voice chat. A bigger problem is probably casual players being too shy to talk; that far outnumbers mic-spammers or people who sound like they're eating the microphone.

[Mister Blastman]

What the hell is going on here?

First matchmaker changes and private matches... then Track IR / Oculus support... now VOIP?

Next we'll have the game balanced and I won't have anything to complain about.

Chronojam, on 14 April 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Maybe I just get lucky with my server selection, but I enjoy 24-player TF2 and do not often have too much trouble with voice chat. A bigger problem is probably casual players being too shy to talk; that far outnumbers mic-spammers or people who sound like they're eating the microphone.

Lost Continents is teh greatest.

[Kyynele]

Dimento Graven, on 14 April 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

My thoughts are that the PUGs wouldn't have to "talk", but they could take advantage of those that did, and did so constructively towards winning the game by communicating enemy positions. Even if YOU never personally said a word, EVER, in the game, you would benefit by SOMEONE saying, "4 Atlas's behind the hill in C3".

And this is why I think it's useless: I'm not muting ingame VOIP so that others don't hear me talking, I have no problems talking. Of course, when I talk, I talk in Finnish with the Finnish friends I'm playing with. I'm muting ingame VOIP because I'm not ruining my gaming experience by listening to randoms whining and raging, which is what the ingame voice communications with randoms will mostly consist of, as that is what the chat already mostly consists of.

Now, how will I benefit from someone saying "4 Atlas's behind the hill in C3" when I've made sure I don't have to hear anyone of my team? You base the usefulness of this feature on the false assumption that the whole team is listening. The problem is that they will not, and what's spoken in muted comms has 0% chance of getting a message across, while anything integrated to the visual UI has even a slightest chance.

Edit: I do agree that the current UI with the battlegrid is horribly ineffective, and don't really have very high hopes that PGI will manage to create the Commo Rose any better. UI 2.0 shows pretty clearly that they have no UX designers whatsoever, and it's enough if a feature A) looks nice B) reaches the minimal requirement for calling it functional.

My opinion is however that instead of dreaming of a day when players are civilized and polite and all are using VOIP, communicating in clear english that everyone understands and listens to, the horribad UI and HUD should be FIXED and IMPROVED.

Edited by Kyynele, 15 April 2014 - 03:23 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dimento Graven, on 14 April 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Seriously dude, your mom does like me.



Sorry couldn't resist.

Just cause she didn't resist doesn't mean she likes you....

Yeah... I know. Neither could I!

[Asmudius Heng]

I see a lot of people raging in here about the dangers of rude 14 year olds on coms as some sort of excuse to turn it off or that it is not needed.

You know that angry 14 year old can be coached to be a normal person online. You know that they are actually the minory. You know that a easy to do mute system per player will solve your problems.

What is left are other people who will play the damned game and might even communicate better. They might not be the best players but now you have a real avenue to teach them if you think you are some sort of mecha god.

I logged into Planetside 2 the other day and ended up in some squad and after some stuffing around got the voip to work. I ended up spending about an hour with 4 guys who showed me the ropes and ins and outs better than any tutorial. They abandoned thier game to help teach me and asked if i wanted to join thier unit as a recruit.

I did not want to join a unit and they were fine with that and kept on helping me understand the ins and outs.

Maybe i got lucky but THAT is how i see VOIP working ... you find newere players or like minded peoples accidentally ... you can have real communication within a lance, you can avoid those early deaths because people might co-ordinate better.

Most of the disorganisation i see in MWO is not from idiocy but from sheer lack of understanding and communication.

This is going to make the game much better for everyone and if you are some sort of grumpy old coot who does not want to communicate then i think you are just as bad as the 14 year old squeaker - but i think he has more potential to learn ...

[Kyynele]

Asmudius Heng, on 15 April 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

This is going to make the game much better for everyone and if you are some sort of grumpy old coot who does not want to communicate then i think you are just as bad as the 14 year old squeaker - but i think he has more potential to learn ...

The only thing that it will change is:

"I keep losing all the time in PUGs, because premades use VOIP and VOIP is OP, if everyone had VOIP there would be no steamrolls because there is no chance that I lose because I don't play well."

will change to:

"I keep losing all the time in PUGs, because some in my team won't use VOIP, if everyone used VOIP there would be no steamrolls because there is no chance that I lose because I don't play well."

I communicate with my premade. I communicate with my team while I'm in a premade and while I'm soloing. I'd do it more if it was more fluent. Thinking that PUG VOIP is a bad idea is not equivalent to not wanting to communicate. I can appreciate and respect that you consider it being the best possible way to communicate, while disagreeing with you completely.

I do however find it slightly offensive that you imply that my preferred way of communicating makes me a bad player that the community would do better without anyway.