177 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Here is the relevant quote from the Dev Vlog #3:

"The assaults, they're supposed to be big and lumbering and they don't really feel that way yet..."
- Paul Inouye





Personally I'm not sure how much more lumbering they can realistically become.

Watching an Atlas try to get a bead on a Jenner or Spider circling it - or even some fast mediums, almost makes me feel like the Benny Hill theme song should be playing in the background.




How do you feel about the statement?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd be fine with at least a week with the Mech Tree Efficiencies turned off.

See how everything feels then.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ultimatum X, on 10 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Here is the relevant quote from the Dev Vlog #3:

"The assaults, they're supposed to be big and lumbering and they don't really feel that way yet..."
- Paul Inouye

Personally I'm not sure how much more lumbering they can realistically become.

Watching an Atlas try to get a bead on a Jenner or Spider circling it - or even some fast mediums, almost makes me feel like the Benny Hill theme song should be playing in the background.

How do you feel about the statement?

Complicated question? Since in PGI's infinite wisdom, they've given each mech it's own quirks...and engine size plays a part....and we have jump jets in the equation.

Oh and of course we have the terrain code, so it depends which size you are too?

And then you have the efficiencies.

I will say...a Highlander with a 325 XL engine and speed tweak moves at what? 64kph? And with jump jets, even with the nerfs...I don't feel like I'd say it's lumbering.

It's also fairly trivial to keep mechs in your cross-hairs as an assault.

So many variables involved.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 10 April 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[TexAce]

Paul.

He probably never played a Banshee with a 300 engine.

[Roadkill]

Ultimatum X, on 10 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Here is the relevant quote from the Dev Vlog #3:

"The assaults, they're supposed to be big and lumbering and they don't really feel that way yet"- Paul Inouye

Dunno what assaults he's playing, because mine sure feel big and lumbering. But then, I don't put outrageously large engines in my assaults in an attempt to make them perform like bloated heavies.

Maybe that's the problem?

[Joseph Mallan]

Ultimatum X, on 10 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Here is the relevant quote from the Dev Vlog #3:

"The assaults, they're supposed to be big and lumbering and they don't really feel that way yet..."
- Paul Inouye





Personally I'm not sure how much more lumbering they can realistically become.

Watching an Atlas try to get a bead on a Jenner or Spider circling it - or even some fast mediums, almost makes me feel like the Benny Hill theme song should be playing in the background.




How do you feel about the statement?

Well at the Stock 300 rate engine my (F)Atlas is slow and Lumbering, At a 350 rate engine it felt sluggish. I never ha a bigger engine in it. My experience in assaults is that they feel slow/fast enough for their mass. Now depending how up engine the player base is going... may change that. I don' normally go to big cause I want weapons bristling on my wall of steel.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadkill, on 10 April 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Dunno what assaults he's playing, because mine sure feel big and lumbering. But then, I don't put outrageously large engines in my assaults in an attempt to make them perform like bloated heavies.

Maybe that's the problem?

Well part of the problem is the tonnage requirements to run meta.

Fitting dual PPC and dual AC'5s really doesn't eat up that much tonnage.

So you can run a huge engine.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 10 April 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I do think the Assaults are irritatingly lumbering and slow, that is why I don't use them much.

Maybe there isn't going to be major sweeping changes, but smaller changes like the nerf the Victor just recieved.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

It depends on which assault you're playing. Atlas, Banshee, Battlemaster, and Stalkers all feel correct to me. Haven't tried the Highlander since the changes and I don't plan on buying Awesomes anytime soon.

The Victor on the other hand always felt more like a heavy to me because their speed is usually in the 70-80 range as opposed to almost every other assault I run at about 62. The jump jets and good hitboxes make it not suicidal to take an XL which allows for much greater speed and agility.

Overall I would say they got the feel of assaults right. Victor may need some work. But I feel very strongly that reducing torso twist on almost any other assault is a bad idea.

[AlmightyAeng]

Well, his last "fix" to Victors basically tuned them down the agility of an Atlas...literally...now imagine those same percentages applied to the OTHER assaults...and then they'll finally be "lightmeat" enough to bump the numbers for their 3/3/3/3 system.

Sigh.

[Ultimax]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Well at the Stock 300 rate engine my (F)Atlas is slow and Lumbering, At a 350 rate engine it felt sluggish. I never ha a bigger engine in it. My experience in assaults is that they feel slow/fast enough for their mass. Now depending how up engine the player base is going... may change that. I don' normally go to big cause I want weapons bristling on my wall of steel.

This is a good point though, huge engine = less firepower or less versatility in weapon load out - or both.

Rouken, on 10 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

It depends on which assault you're playing. Atlas, Banshee, Battlemaster, and Stalkers all feel correct to me. Haven't tried the Highlander since the changes and I don't plan on buying Awesomes anytime soon.

The Victor on the other hand always felt more like a heavy to me because their speed is usually in the 70-80 range as opposed to almost every other assault I run at about 62. The jump jets and good hitboxes make it not suicidal to take an XL which allows for much greater speed and agility.

The Atlas weighs 100 tons.
The Victor weighs 80 tons.
The Orion weighs 75 tons.


Why should the Victor feel more like an Atlas than an Orion, based on what is a completely arbitrary name like "assault" that only serves to denote where one weight class begins and another weight class ends?

Base mechanics work according to Engine & Tonnage, that is how movement speed and other mobility is calculated - aside from quirks.

If it were up to me, all mechs would work strictly according to those calculations, and then if you wanted the quirks for that specific chassis that would be part of what you unlock as you gain xp.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 10 April 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[Khobai]

I still maintain that they need to remove speed tweak and anchor turn from assault skill tree and give them damage reduction skills instead. Assaults should be big and lumbering but they should also tank staggering amounts of damage.

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 10 April 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

I still maintain that they need to remove speed tweak and anchor turn from assault skill tree and give them damage reduction skills instead. Assaults should be big and lumbering but they should also tank staggering amounts of damage.

While I'd be a little frustrated by the loss of some mobility, this is certainly a fair and balanced proposal that looks to add as much value as it would remove.


So if the numbers were right, it could be a good way to go.

[Gas Guzzler]

Rouken, on 10 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

It depends on which assault you're playing. Atlas, Banshee, Battlemaster, and Stalkers all feel correct to me. Haven't tried the Highlander since the changes and I don't plan on buying Awesomes anytime soon.

The Victor on the other hand always felt more like a heavy to me because their speed is usually in the 70-80 range as opposed to almost every other assault I run at about 62. The jump jets and good hitboxes make it not suicidal to take an XL which allows for much greater speed and agility.

Overall I would say they got the feel of assaults right. Victor may need some work. But I feel very strongly that reducing torso twist on almost any other assault is a bad idea.

The Victor was hammered with nerfs already, I would argue its torso twist speed could be raised to -10% from default. Right now it is -20%. As of now, it will twist at the same speed as an Atlas with the same engine. It may feel almost like a heavy, because it is only 5 tons heavier than a heavy, and they run so fast because people commonly put Large XL engines to take advantage of its relative lightness (for an assault) and ability to run XL engines, and in doing so sacrificing some firepower.

My Dragon Slayer is set up going ~73 kph with speed tweak right now. My Awesome 9M goes ~75 kph withOUT speed tweak.

I think the Assaults still feel pretty lumbering, especially at 90+ tons. Even 64 Kph is not really enough to get yourself out of a bad situation, and a good light pilot can still run circles around assaults, even Victors that can run 80 kph.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 10 April 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Derpington Von Trollington]

I've seen Victors going as fast as my Hunchback (89.8km/h with a standard 250).
I would say that YES some assaults and heavies aren't really lumbering at all.

[cheapcamper]

well since then nerf on assults i had been running lights and mediums, and i have to say it is so much more fun and challanging to be lights and mediums then armor metaboats..............Well it was like everyone was talking about role warfare and how we are lacking it....... by nerfing assult handling I say it actually promotes role warfare! you too sluggish to fight a light? have a "useless" medium looking at your back and protect your "useless" medium from metaboats!

honestly, my personal experence is that it really affects pugs experence as everyone is on their own, where as it does not affect 4 man meta snipers much as they can still cover each others blind spots with formation, I was in a 4 man assult poptart last few days and it felt so easy, to a poiint that the nerf on mobility didn't really affect 4 man stomps! it does, however affect the poor high elo pug poptart who is trying to carry his pug teammates and not so meta 4 man againest metaboats! See him get eaten alive by the smart light who spot for the recent lrmfest.....................

I am all for agreeing nerf to assult mobility to "define" their role, but i have to say it is gonna be more detrimental to PUGs then to Premades, and gosh i am quite sure a LOT LOT LOT of your diehard LORDS would be ANGRY! so........goodluck PGI!

if i am paul, I would nerf the assult so it would have problem tracking mechs over 120 kph, You want that large ALPHA? that is what you get!

coming from an dude that once 4man poptart Dragon slayer bigtime, it just felt meh to me now~_~ .


keep em nerfs coming!

BTW, can we nerf lrm tracking strength? it is kinda to see light mechs died to lrms. if you want to get that light mech you will have to aim for it!

3/3/3/3 is gonna be QQ and fun ! lets see how this goes!

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 10 April 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

I still maintain that they need to remove speed tweak and anchor turn from assault skill tree and give them damage reduction skills instead. Assaults should be big and lumbering but they should also tank staggering amounts of damage.

I see what you are saying, but for the heavier Assaults that travel slow to start with, they only get a speed gain of 5-6 kph, compared to lights that get speed gains of 13.8 kph from speed tweak, so it almost balances itself in that regard.

Lights are pretty strong as is. 1 v 1 light vs assault is very balanced right now, and I would even say that matchup favors the light if it has a good pilot. Give Assaults less mobility and that gives the light even more of an advantage.

Derpington Von Trollington, on 10 April 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

I've seen Victors going as fast as my Hunchback (89.8km/h with a standard 250).
I would say that YES some assaults and heavies aren't really lumbering at all.

The only Victor that can do that is a Dragon Slayer with an XL 400 and speed tweak! You probably had more weapons on your Hunchback lol

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

I see what you are saying, but for the heavier Assaults that travel slow to start with, they only get a speed gain of 5-6 kph, compared to lights that get speed gains of 13.8 kph from speed tweak, so it almost balances itself in that regard.

Lights are pretty strong as is. 1 v 1 light vs assault is very balanced right now, and I would even say that matchup favors the light if it has a good pilot. Give Assaults less mobility and that gives the light even more of an advantage.

The only Victor that can do that is a Dragon Slayer with an XL 400 and speed tweak! You probably had more weapons on your Hunchback lol

That's great, so what's a medium supposed to do?

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 10 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Here is the relevant quote from the Dev Vlog #3:

"The assaults, they're supposed to be big and lumbering and they don't really feel that way yet..."
- Paul Inouye





Personally I'm not sure how much more lumbering they can realistically become.

Watching an Atlas try to get a bead on a Jenner or Spider circling it - or even some fast mediums, almost makes me feel like the Benny Hill theme song should be playing in the background.




How do you feel about the statement?

If they want Assaults all to lumber like, say, the Banshee or Stalker do, that is fine.

Now fix the HSR/Hit Regs on Light Mechs and scale them properly to the Assaults, and I might be OK with that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 10 April 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

That's great, so what's a medium supposed to do?

read the lyrics for 18 by Alice Cooper for the relevant answer.