40 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

JagdFlanker, on 13 April 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

i play pretty much only LRM boats and ECM doesn't bother me - just takes longer to lock on. otherwise ECM mechs get the same rain of death every other mech gets from me

Actually, unless you have TAG/NARC you can't lock on at all. That's the issue.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^


....THIS

(IS WHY TAG IS OP)

[Amsro]

Daisu Saikoro, on 13 April 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

I have talked to my great-grandmother at great lengths about this, and she agrees that me being a Founder I have more right than anyone else to say this, but the ONLY REASON we NEED ECM (in the game today) is that TAG IS OP!

Remove (or nuff) TAG or DON'T BUT YOU SHOULD REMOVE TAG PGI! You are RUINING the game by not REMOVING TAG (as evidenced by the many threads concerning TAG being OP)!!!!

Tag is far from OP. As well founder = 2012. Closed Beta, Open Beta, Launch have all happened. Basically negating your "founder" status.

Nerf Tag because ECM doesn't work like it should. ? nice.

Daisu Saikoro, on 13 April 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^


....THIS

(IS WHY TAG IS OP)

All I read from your posts;

You have ECM mechs, you wander around the map thinking you are invisible, missiles decimate you, blame TAG.

ggclose

[Khobai]

Pretty much the entire point of ECM is to counter LRMs. The problem is LRMs arnt good enough to need a counter. So ECM just ends up shutting down a subpar category of weapons and forces everyone back to ERLL/PPCs/autocannons.

Which is why ECM should only stealth the mechs its on and not give stealth to nearby mechs. Thats good enough for 1.5 tons. And LRMs would actually be somewhat useful again.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[Wolfways]

Mystere, on 13 April 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

What's will all the new anti-ECM threads lately? Things were quiet on this front just several weeks ago. Did we just get an influx of new players, or did current players suddenly turn into eunuchs?

ECM is fine. So what if it's "easy mode" for the other side? (And why are the complainers always talking about the "other" side when no one is stopping them from using it too?)

ECM on the enemy team forces you to find ways to deal with it. So, deal with it. Others have, a long long time ago. Why not you, especially because it is apparently not going away anytime soon?

My own solution to the ECM "situation" is to specialize with ECM hunter-killers. And I can say that it is fun doing so.

So ECM is fine and we should all adapt to it by making specialized ECM-mech hunters.
Makes sense..

[Amsro]

ECM has been hated since inception. The problem is PGI and has been for many of the issues in game.


ECM = overpowered
Command Console = Useless
Clan Targeting Computer = Take a Guess

Just a drop in the bucket of LOL.

[Mystere]

Wolfways, on 13 April 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

So ECM is fine and we should all adapt to it by making specialized ECM-mech hunters.
Makes sense..

It's so much better than whining on the forums all day long.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Purpose of ECM is to act as a bandaid for shitty game mechanics.

It has very little in common with the actual canon equipment by the same name.

[Mystere]

mwhighlander, on 13 April 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

It has very little in common with the actual canon equipment by the same name.

Again, I should ask: Which Mechwarrior game stuck strictly to canon?

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 13 April 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Again, I should ask: Which Mechwarrior game stuck strictly to canon?

Which mechwarrior game made weapons do 3 times damage, and doubled armor? Which mech game had a rising heat cap? Which mech game makes guided SSRMs do more damage for the same tonnage as dumb SRMs? 3 times heat, nerfed dissipation, etc...

It seems things that should have been canon aren't, but things that are canon shouldn't have been...funny how that works.

[Rhaythe]

If you're standing out in the open and wondering why TAG keeps breaking your ECM, the problem has nothing to do with your ECM.

[Lykaon]

Khobai, on 13 April 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Pretty much the entire point of ECM is to counter LRMs.

WHAT?

Seriously do you know what ECM actually does? I mean do you know how ECM counters LRM locks? The mechanics behind the function?

ECM removes 75% of an enemy team's sensor range.This means that full sensor functionality is reduced to 200m.

ECM prevents passive sensor detection unless the ECM covered unit is at 200m or less from the unit using sensors on it.

This is the single most potent ability provided by any piece of equipment in the entire game.

It prevents passive detection and data sharing.You may see a mech under ECM cover but you can not lock it or detect it with sensors.This means that unless your team mates also see it or you tell them it's there it is invisable to them.

An example: You are in the rear flank of your teams formation,suddenly you take damage from your left flank and turn and see a lance of enemy mechs under ECM cover.Your eyeballs can see them but your sensors will not lock or detect them,your team mates will not get any indications that they are being flanked by 4 mechs from their sensors it's all up to the team member who actually saw it and is currently under fire from it to share this information.

So,unless you are in a premade with VOIP you will need to type something while under fire from 4 sensor cloaked mechs will you survive? not likely.So you move to cover to type giving the 4 cloaked mechs more time to gain a superior flank possition on you team.

Finally you have to hope someone reads your report and responds.A more likely event is you are destroyed or pinned down and one or two friendly mechs walk right into a gun line and get shot to pieces because their sensors do not tell them the enemy possition,unit types,payload or facing.

ECM has now allowed a flanking force to succeed because of the sensor jam and nothing to do with jamming LRMs that's just a bonus.

[Khobai]

Quote

Purpose of ECM is to act as a bandaid for shitty game mechanics.

whats it a bandaid for though? its not like LRMs are overpowered if you dont bring ECM...

ECM doesnt even bandaid anything. it just makes LRMs borderline useless and forces everyone to use direct fire weapons.

LRMs will never be viable until ECM is nerfed to only stealth the mech its on.

Quote

An example: You are in the rear flank of your teams formation,suddenly you take damage from your left flank and turn and see a lance of enemy mechs under ECM cover.Your eyeballs can see them but your sensors will not lock or detect them,your team mates will not get any indications that they are being flanked by 4 mechs from their sensors it's all up to the team member who actually saw it and is currently under fire from it to share this information.

Anyone who's so useless they cant use their own two eyes to see enemy mechs and has to rely on teammates pressing R in order to fire erlls/ppcs/ac5s at the enemy is not someone I want on my team anyway.

Fortunately, my experience is that *most* pugs are capable zooming in and shooting at enemy mechs that arnt targeted by the team. Most pugs have the shooting part down pretty good. The main problem pugs seem to have is not making proper use of cover. I see pugs just stand out in the open in their atlases and get vaporized for no good reason.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[OznerpaG]

Mcgral18, on 13 April 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Actually, unless you have TAG/NARC you can't lock on at all. That's the issue.

then why can i lock on to ECM mechs w/o TAGging them? like i said, it takes 10sec to lock on, but i CAN lock on to ECM mechs w/o TAG. i think everyone talks about not being able to do it w/o TRYING to actually do it

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

JagdFlanker, on 13 April 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

then why can i lock on to ECM mechs w/o TAGging them? like i said, it takes 10sec to lock on, but i CAN lock on to ECM mechs w/o TAG. i think everyone talks about not being able to do it w/o TRYING to actually do it

Lol... no you can't...

[Livewyr]

If ECM is supposed to stealth (only the mech it is on)

What is Stealth Armor going to do? Make the make actively invisible?

[Lykaon]

Khobai, on 13 April 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

Anyone who's so useless they cant use their own two eyes to see enemy mechs and has to rely on teammates pressing R in order to fire erlls/ppcs/ac5s at the enemy is not someone I want on my team anyway.

Fortunately, my experience is that *most* pugs are capable zooming in and shooting at enemy mechs that arnt targeted by the team. Most pugs have the shooting part down pretty good. The main problem pugs seem to have is not making proper use of cover. I see pugs just stand out in the open in their atlases and get vaporized for no good reason.

Re read my example it has nothing to do with firing on enemy mechs that are not highlighted by sensors it has everything to do with passive target detection.

If only ONE of your team is facing the direction of approach of an ECM covered lance and only that ONE player has seen these mechs approaching and since ECM prevents the knowlege of these mechs being there from being shared how does anyone but the one guy who saw them shoot anything at them?

The knowlege of the flanking lance needs to be shared for anyone to react except the one (or two) pilots who sees the situation.This means typing in PUGs or VOIP in a 4 man (leaving 8 players out of the info network unless typing occurs in addition to VOIP use)

Do you understand now?

It has been my experience that most of the time most of a team is focused in one direction.That direction is the point of initial contact.Everyone is hunkering behind cover and trying to point towards the enemy they see first.Most of the time the enemy seen first by the majority of a team has been detected via sensors and target locations shared to the team's network.

Now how the hell do you expect a fluid and appropriate reaction to an ECM covered flank attack to occur if most of you are facing away (can't see whats on your flank) and most are not using VOIP to relay tactical data (can't tell 2/3 of a team right flank incoming they are pugs)

I have abused this situation so often it's boring.Let the 8 pugs go to the same grid they always do and have the enemy face towards our pugs as they always do.Then take a premade under ECM cover up the flank and kill 6 of them before they know we are there.My pug team mates then have a field day mowing down the remaining 6 enemy pinned between us and them.

[Wolfways]

Mystere, on 13 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's so much better than whining on the forums all day long.

Not if you care about the future of the game enough to hope for a change for the better.

[DjPush]

All I was saying was make less stuff counter ECM. 5 different kinds of equipment/modules (including ECM itselt) is overkill.

[Lykaon]

JagdFlanker, on 13 April 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

then why can i lock on to ECM mechs w/o TAGging them? like i said, it takes 10sec to lock on, but i CAN lock on to ECM mechs w/o TAG. i think everyone talks about not being able to do it w/o TRYING to actually do it

And here is an example of why ECM is a convoluted steaming pile of wasted code.

Players can't figure out how it works if it's working or even when they think ECM is the cause it may not be etc and so on.

DjPush, on 13 April 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

All I was saying was make less stuff counter ECM. 5 different kinds of equipment/modules (including ECM itselt) is overkill.

How about redesign information warfare to include all of the support electronics as equal contributers instead of ECM = awesome everything else is a half baked counter.