149 replies to this topic

[Lord Perversor]

So with current patch all the autocannons got a balanced or rounded Dps.

So where is the purpouse of ghost Heat to affect Ac/2 (since it deal same dps as (U)AC/5) aside to stop some ppl to whine about the macro chainfire?

We got a Range reduction along the Dps one. I think it's time to allow somewhat sensible builds with built in AC/2 get some freedom.

[Joseph Mallan]

Though I agree with you... Will AC20s still do 20 damage front loaded? If so... I don't see ghost heat vanishing.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 April 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

NO! ghost heat is here to stay.

maybe reduce the base heat by 5%. that's my final offer

[Lord Perversor]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 April 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Though I agree with you... Will AC20s still do 20 damage front loaded? If so... I don't see ghost heat vanishing.

Far i know only Ac/2 and (U)AC/5 got modified this patch (Ac10-20 should keep rof,dps and dmg as before)

[Joseph Mallan]

Still dumb as rocks

AC20 6 heat
AC20 6 heat
Ghost14 Heat(WTF)
total heat 26!
Stupidest thing I ever saw!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 April 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Mazzyplz, on 15 April 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

NO! ghost heat is here to stay.

maybe reduce the base heat by 5%. that's my final offer

I'm more interested in a balanced aproach, i'm not against Ghost heat (curse me if wish i can live with it)

What annoy me is that using my 4x Ac/2 Jager it's penalized with extra heat but a 4x Ac/5 it's not. something as simple as 5+ weapons for Ghost Heat penalty should be enough to balance both builds in the battlefield imho.

I may be wrong, so it's open up to more expert people to debate and prove me wrong too

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 April 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Still dumb as rocks

AC20 6 heat
AC20 6 heat
Ghost14 Heat(WTF)
total heat 26!
Stupidest thing I ever saw!

0.5s delay no ghost heat total heat 12 !!

[Joseph Mallan]

Ngamok, on 15 April 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

0.5s delay no ghost heat total heat 12 !!

Point




















































You!

[FupDup]

Don't count on it.

Edited by FupDup, 15 April 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Just throwing a comparison to consider.

Quad Ac/2 versus Quad Ac/5

Now i take in consideration the Quad Ac/2 may be a bit more sustainable with the reduced fire rate, but as long it is Ghost heat affected after this patch the Ac/5 seems to be a clear winner.

P.S: it may still takea while until smurfy update the values.

Edited by Lord Perversor, 15 April 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 April 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Still dumb as rocks

AC20 6 heat
AC20 6 heat
Ghost14 Heat(WTF)
total heat 26!
Stupidest thing I ever saw!

10 pinpoint DPS tied into a 40 damage alphastrike is complete bullshit on a 65 ton mech. Ghost heat killing abusive builds is not a bad thing.



Ghost heat killing the stock Awesome, Blackhawk or the 4x large laser Stalker on the other hand....

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 15 April 2014 - 10:38 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

AC-5 & UAC-5 are pretty much heat neutral even with no extra heatsinks, thats the difference.

I can chainfire, or even quadfire an AC-5 build and hold down the trigger it till the ammo counts 0 and never shutdown.

UAC-5 with the frequent jams, same deal, just mash the firebutton till it goes click.

AC-2 staggerfire with 2, and you're at meltdown very quickly, seems fair yes?

[Lord Perversor]

Mister D, on 15 April 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

AC-5 & UAC-5 are pretty much heat neutral even with no extra heatsinks, thats the difference.

I can chainfire, or even quadfire an AC-5 build and hold down the trigger it till the ammo counts 0 and never shutdown.

UAC-5 with the frequent jams, same deal, just mash the firebutton till it goes click.

AC-2 staggerfire with 2, and you're at meltdown very quickly, seems fair yes?

Even without staggering fire you'll mech will shutdown in a matter of seconds.

[Joseph Mallan]

MisterPlanetarian, on 15 April 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

10 pinpoint DPS tied into a 40 damage alphastrike is complete bullshit on a 65 ton mech. Ghost heat killing abusive builds is not a bad thing.



Ghost heat killing the stock Awesome, Blackhawk or the 4x large laser Stalker on the other hand....

40 point Alphas???? I have been doing that for 2 years now. I started with 98 point alphas and have been slowly whittled down 40 damage to double armor is not at all more than I am used to for over 30 years thanks to double armor. That I have to use two weapons to get the effect of one is shameful to me.

Actually Poor PPC performance killed the Awesome in CB. Just as it was getting some love in the damage dealing arena Ghost heat killed it again.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Boomajgers were simply to easy. Other mechs with 40+ pinpoint projectile alpha paid for it with massive heat generation or a far higher tonnage investment than 2xAC20.

They are still good and you can afford an alpha on targets of opportunity but its no longer point and click since you have to chain fire a bit.

[Deathlike]

Ghost of Paul said:

No.

[Dimento Graven]

Lord Perversor, on 15 April 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

So with current patch all the autocannons got a balanced or rounded Dps.

So where is the purpouse of ghost Heat to affect Ac/2 (since it deal same dps as (U)AC/5) aside to stop some ppl to whine about the macro chainfire?

We got a Range reduction along the Dps one. I think it's time to allow somewhat sensible builds with built in AC/2 get some freedom.

The problem with the smaller AC's is that their fire rates were so high that, when boating them, they effectively become this:

[Kaldor]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 April 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

40 point Alphas???? I have been doing that for 2 years now. I started with 98 point alphas and have been slowly whittled down 40 damage to double armor is not at all more than I am used to for over 30 years thanks to double armor. That I have to use two weapons to get the effect of one is shameful to me.

Actually Poor PPC performance killed the Awesome in CB. Just as it was getting some love in the damage dealing arena Ghost heat killed it again.

I cant agree with you Joe. I hate the concept of Ghost Heat and complex stupid mechanics as much as anyone as you well know. Builds that can be easily abused need to have some regulation. I would have preferred it to be done via hard point limitations.

Personally I think the 40whatever builds are bad for the game as a whole. Im sorry but 40 pinpoint damage on any mech will either put a serious dent in them, or outright kill them. And for those that will assuredly come back and list all the downsides, please. The Jager when played right, with the right tactics has more than enough survivability to get the job done. The build itself is not that hard to play. Put crosshair on mech and fire. Torso twist and or use peakaboo tactics to spread or negate damage. Or better yet, run 2 of them with a buddy and clean house. Or even worse, run 2 assaults as cover and damage soak and run the map. They are less of a factor when running in 12 man because you will call out the build and focus it, but in a PUG game, they can be an absolute terror against disorganized noobs.

And yeah, I remember the days of super high alpha DDCs. I played one for a long time, 2 LLs, AC20, 3SRM6s or 2 UAC5s, 2MLs, 3SRM6s. But even those builds were not pin point accurate because you were relying on 3 different weapon types to get it done.

[Zerberus]

For me the range reduction is what will probably be the kicker. The only reason I ever used AC2s was to be able to let people know with no uncertainity that they were being watched at 2k.

With the range now being shorter than the AC5, I don`t see the point in continuing to use AC2s when I take tha patch notes at face value. I`ll test it, but I`m skeptical at best.

It may sound overdramatac, but could this possibly be "The Day the Dakka Died"?

[FupDup]

Zerberus, on 15 April 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

For me the range reduction is what will probably be the kicker. The only reason I ever used AC2s was to be able to let people know with no uncertainity that they were being watched at 2k.

With the range now being shorter than the AC5, I don`t see the point in continuing to use AC2s when I take tha patch notes at face value. I`ll test it, but I`m skeptical at best.

Implying that Paul wants people to use the AC/2.

Zerberus, on 15 April 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

It may sound overdramatac, but could this possibly be "The Day the Dakka Died"?

That has a nice ring to it.